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Old 02-23-2017, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
9,231 posts, read 8,216,655 times
Reputation: 8213

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
This is ridiculous. Walking more than a mile in downtown Cleveland is extremely unusual, unless someone really wants to do so, and most persons never walk more than a third of a mile at one time, especially if they use the trolleys.

Just the Freedom Trail in Boston is 2.5 miles long.

I'm curious. Name one U.S. city where the average distance between the three major sports venues is less than in Cleveland.
The Freedom Trail, as a former tour guide thereof I feel it necessary to say something, is also somewhat roundabout (for example going up the hill on the Common, going to King's Chapel and then cutting back to go to Old SOuth Meeting house, then cutting back to go to Quincy Market, similar situation in North End with Paul Revere House and then having you go around to get back to Hanover). That also includes walking from North End to Charlestown, which most people honestly don't do if you give them an option. Or they might do it later after eating on their own.

Park Street Station to Old North Church is 0.9 miles.

About sports- I don't think being able to walk from a Cavs game to an Indians game is very high on people's priority lists. I mean, yes I think it's cool they're all together. But it doesn't actually matter that much.
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Old 02-23-2017, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
9,231 posts, read 8,216,655 times
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Also Philly has their sports stuff closest together. Not a great area though if I remember correctly. Sea of parking. Nothing to do. TOo much sports concentration actually can make an area kinda dead except for like an hour before and after games.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Li...!4d-75.1674635
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Old 02-23-2017, 02:31 PM
 
8,152 posts, read 5,222,330 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
Also Philly has their sports stuff closest together. Not a great area though if I remember correctly. Sea of parking. Nothing to do. TOo much sports concentration actually can make an area kinda dead except for like an hour before and after games.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Li...!4d-75.1674635
In Cleveland, all three sports venues are short walks from large entertainment districts, and mass transit is readily available to take you to even more entertainment/restaurant districts, such as the breweries of the Market District, Shaker Square, or Little Italy, or even the East Flats.
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Old 02-23-2017, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
9,231 posts, read 8,216,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
In Cleveland, all three sports venues are short walks from large entertainment districts, and mass transit is readily available to take you to even more entertainment/restaurant districts, such as the breweries of the Market District, Shaker Square, or Little Italy, or even the East Flats.
I know, I used to actually work for the Indians. Game day staff. Green line in to downtown, then I'd be around the park until very late. I'd take the red line to university circle to get picked up from my brother in UH or take the Health Line there if I went somewhere after the game and was a little late. health line 24/7 was good. In case you were interested in my background.

Philly suffers with the Eagles so close I think. Too much parking required.
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Old 02-23-2017, 04:50 PM
 
Location: WA
673 posts, read 397,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
This is also what I was saying. Walking from Boston Public Library on Boylston to Park Street Church is roughly the same distance as Public Square to Rock Hall. Those walks don't have even close to the same feeling! If anyone debates that, I guess I don't know how to answer.

And this is coming from a guy who likes Cleveland more than Boston, by the way. Just saying some things really are cut and dry though.
I of course agree with you! And it is not anything against Cleveland's merits...it's just not as walkable as some other cities. I feel the same about Denver.
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Old 02-24-2017, 10:49 AM
 
123 posts, read 112,972 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by october2007 View Post
I don't mean this to be racist or pejorative - I'm just curious. As a new (white) resident who lives on the east side I am trying to acclimate to the area and see very few white people in comparison to black. The area looks like it was originally white so I'm wondering what happened and where did they go and why? I also find it curious that there are so many huge and beautiful houses (are there that many very wealthy people?) yet several blocks away it looks depressed and ugly. It's just a strange mix here that I'm noticing.
OP and others:

Historically the east side of Cleveland has been the settlement destination of blacks who moved north in search of jobs and a better life. This migration accelerated in earnest as part of the Great Migration that occurred in two waves: post-World War I (1910s-1920s) and post-World War II (1940s-1960s). Except for a few isolated communities outside of Cleveland, the vast majority of black migrants settled within the city limits, east of the Cuyahoga River. The Great Migration brought large waves of black migrants to many cities in the Northeast, Midwest and far West of the United States; it was not unique to Cleveland. The Great Migration essentially ended by the 1970s and has even begun to reverse more recently, as some blacks return to the South.

Another phenomenon developed in the 1960s as the Great Migration began to slow; the diffusion of Northeast Ohio's black community. By the 1950s, the black community was densely crowded in certain Cleveland East Side neighborhoods and many, especially middle and upper-middle class black professionals, were eager to provide better housing, neighborhoods, schools and overall quality of life to their families (i.e. just like everyone else). As segregated housing restrictions relaxed and opportunities became available, these families took advantage of opportunities to move into eastside suburbs such as East Cleveland, Cleveland Heights, Shaker Heights and Warrensville Heights in the 1960s and 1970s. By 1980, there were significant black populations in these communities. To use school enrollment as a proxy for total population, here are the school districts in Greater Cleveland that had sizable black representation in the Fall 1979 Headcount:

EAST CLEVELAND (99% black)
WARRENSVILLE HEIGHTS (95%)
CLEVELAND (64%)
CLEVELAND HEIGHTS-UNIVERSITY HEIGHTS (41%)
SHAKER HEIGHTS (37%)
PAINESVILLE (20%)
BEDFORD (19%)
BEACHWOOD (10%)
TWINSBURG (10%)

For the next 30 years, Northeast Ohio's black community continued to disperse from its historic urban East Side concentrations into other suburbs and even Cleveland's West Side. Compare the black representation in Greater Cleveland school districts in the Fall 2009 Headcount with the Fall 1979 Headcount (above):

EAST CLEVELAND (99% black)
WARRENSVILLE HEIGHTS (98%)
MAPLE HEIGHTS (94%)
EUCLID (77%)
CLEVELAND HEIGHTS-UNIVERSITY HEIGHTS (75%)
BEDFORD (74%)
RICHMOND HEIGHTS (74%)
CLEVELAND (69%)
SOUTH EUCLID-LYNDHURST (58%)
SHAKER HEIGHTS (52%)
GARFIELD HEIGHTS (49%)
TWINSBURG (23%)
ORANGE (23%)
BEACHWOOD (21%)
WOODRIDGE (20%)
PAINESVILLE (18%)
MAYFIELD (15%)
SOLON (14%)
NORDONIA HILLS (12%)
STREETSBORO (12%)

The dramatic increase in black representation among school district enrollment in these areas was not simply a matter of increasing black population, but rather the combination of more black students enrolled and fewer white students enrolled. In many cases, overall enrollment (both black and white) declined in these districts, but white enrollment declined faster than black enrollment.

In the seven years since the Great Recession, the City of Cleveland and some of the suburban districts that initially received an influx of black families in the 1960s and 1970s have experienced a decline in black representation as the black community continues to disperse within the region and move out of Northeast Ohio altogether (black student enrollment has declined 15% during this period; white student enrollment has declined 16%). Other districts have experienced further increase in black student representation. Here is black representation from the Fall 2016 Headcount for comparison with the Fall 2009 Headcount (above):

EAST CLEVELAND (99%)
WARRENSVILLE HEIGHTS (97%)
MAPLE HEIGHTS (94%)
RICHMOND HEIGHTS (87%)
EUCLID (86%)
BEDFORD (82%)
CLEVELAND HEIGHTS-UNIVERSITY HEIGHTS (73%)
GARFIELD HEIGHTS (71%)
SOUTH EUCLID-LYNDHURST (68%)
CLEVELAND (65%)
SHAKER HEIGHTS (46%)
TWINSBURG (24%)
WOODRIDGE (22%)
BEACHWOOD (21%)
ORANGE (19%)
MAYFIELD (18%)
PAINESVILLE (17%)
STREETSBORO (15%)
SOLON (15%)
NORDONIA HILLS (12%)

Much of the outmigration of blacks from Cleveland's East Side stems from housing opportunities in the eastern suburbs created by lack of white demand. While middle and upper middle class blacks could afford to live largely where they wanted (whether through renting or purchasing), these only comprised a small percentage of the black community. Cleveland's black community is one of the poorest among black communities in major United States metropolitan areas and those who want to move out of Cleveland city proper require more affordable housing options. These options have largely come through rental opportunities in former working class white suburbs. The aging of cheaply built housing stock in communities such as Euclid, Garfield Heights, Maple Heights and Richmond Heights combined with the lack of young first-time homebuyers (many Millenials have opted to rent in walkable, urban neighborhoods instead of buy starter homes in World War II-era blue collar neighborhoods) to create such options. There are now plenty of affordable housing options accessible to blacks who want to live outside the city.

I hope you find this background and context somewhat helpful. Feel free to private message me with additional questions. Please note that all enrollment data comes from the Ohio Department of Education.

Thank you!
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Old 02-24-2017, 10:57 AM
 
8,152 posts, read 5,222,330 times
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Painesville's declining percentages likely result from large increases in Hispanic enrollments.
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Old 02-24-2017, 12:41 PM
 
Location: New Mexico via Ohio via Indiana
1,578 posts, read 1,423,357 times
Reputation: 2530
Liberal that I am, "nuclear-free" Cleveland Heights and their hypocrisy involving race and schools makes me shake my head. "Well there's less white kids because the Jewish families send their kids to private schools." While that may be true to some extent, it was not the answer you would give decades ago when state champion basketball teams would have a starting five of Jewish names, and later when the teams were integrated. The kids were not fleeing to private schools. Key word is "fleeing." When did CH become Maple Heights in that regard?
CH folks have a tough time admitting it, but with the schools, it's race now and has been for years.
You believe in your schools and your community? Back it up and stay, and make it better. And don't let your too-proud-to-admit-it perceived fears stop you from staying in a proud district and even prouder community.
You believe in your town? Put up or shut up.

Last edited by kpl1228; 02-24-2017 at 12:55 PM..
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Old 02-24-2017, 12:44 PM
 
Location: CA
958 posts, read 772,088 times
Reputation: 738
Hispanic enrollments...Where I live, in 93110, this is a blessing. We have incredible work ethic labor and skill workers and parents in our school who demand their child do well and work hard. The family unit is tight and close. It's not perfect, but overall, it's a bonus for our area.
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Old 02-24-2017, 10:55 PM
 
8,152 posts, read 5,222,330 times
Reputation: 4346
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacherdad View Post
Hispanic enrollments...Where I live, in 93110, this is a blessing. We have incredible work ethic labor and skill workers and parents in our school who demand their child do well and work hard. The family unit is tight and close. It's not perfect, but overall, it's a bonus for our area.
From what I've seen, the Hispanics in Painesville have a good work ethic. The problem is that they have an elevated drop-out rate which hurts the ratings of the Painesville City schools, at least when several years ago I last examined the state ratings closely for several districts.
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