Where did all the white people go on the east side? (Cleveland: apartment, crime)

[october2007]

I don't mean this to be racist or pejorative - I'm just curious. As a new (white) resident who lives on the east side I am trying to acclimate to the area and see very few white people in comparison to black. The area looks like it was originally white so I'm wondering what happened and where did they go and why? I also find it curious that there are so many huge and beautiful houses (are there that many very wealthy people?) yet several blocks away it looks depressed and ugly. It's just a strange mix here that I'm noticing.

[andrew61]

How exactly does an area "look like it originally was white"? Just wondering...

By "east side" are you referring to city? Suburbs? Where, exactly?

I'd surmise that most of the white people who left the east side of the city migrated out to the eastern suburbs. And in the case of some of those suburbs now turning increasingly black, I'd say the whites formerly living there mostly migrated even further out to more distant suburbs and exurbs.

But that's just an educated guess.

[october2007]

Originally Posted by andrew61

How exactly does an area "look like it originally was white"? Just wondering...

By "east side" are you referring to city? Suburbs? Where, exactly?

I'd surmise that most of the white people who left the east side of the city migrated out to the eastern suburbs. And in the case of some of those suburbs now turning increasingly black, I'd say the whites formerly living there mostly migrated even further out to more distant suburbs and exurbs.

But that's just an educated guess.

I'm talking about Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights mainly...I'm assuming the communities were originally built by and for whites (as were most places from that time period) and I think maybe they were originally heavily Jewish. The Tudor style of the buildings/houses is a style that would seem to point to a caucasian neighborhood (originally). Someone also told me that Shaker Square area used to be white but now it is mostly black...so just wondering why things shifted. Maybe as blacks moved in, whites left as sometimes happens? I guess I should do some reading on the history of the neighborhoods.

[Rosebush1]

I'm not sure what answer the OP is looking for beyond what has been conjectured.

[october2007]

Originally Posted by Rosebush1

I'm not sure what answer the OP is looking for beyond what has been conjectured.

Just wondering what drove white population out of what seem like nice areas to live in. It seems like something must of happened and I was just wondering what.

[bjimmy24]

Why the faux naivete here? Of course the east side was very white. Buckeye had all kinds of slovaks and Hungarians. St clair was Slovenian. Slavic village was czech and Polish. Kinsman was Jewish, so was glenville. Collinwood had tons of southern slavs. Irish sprinkled around. Italians obviously concentrated in little italy. Nowadays everyone is spread out. Lots of Italians for example went to Mayfield and beyond, like Willoughby. Slavic village dwellers went south to places like garfield and Valley view. There are tons of reasons for this, but I'd say the biggest is the forced suburbanization perpetrated by the federal government with the construction of highways and utter demolition of core neighborhoods. Very sad indeed.

Might have seen it on this forum, but can't find it now, however maybe if you can find before and after pics of Cleveland pre and post highway you'll see how devastating it was. The post war "boom" was largely artificial. The east side just hasn't recovered. I think recovery is stalled greatly by the way the blacks are trapped in welfare- no incentive to start businesses or make real moves. Again this is a devilish government trick. Also can't forget the changing nature of industry. A lack of foresight by Clevelanders who were convinced that the world would never change and put all their eggs in one basket, at the reassurance of uncle sam, got screwed hard.

But there are some good things happening now. Obviously look at University circle. But less obviously, there are some things getting better in hough, asiatown, St clair, North collinwood. Still 20 years behind west side though I'd say.

[october2007]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

Why the faux naivete here? Of course the east side was very white. Buckeye had all kinds of slovaks and Hungarians. St clair was Slovenian. Slavic village was czech and Polish. Kinsman was Jewish, so was glenville. Collinwood had tons of southern slavs. Irish sprinkled around. Italians obviously concentrated in little italy. Nowadays everyone is spread out. Lots of Italians for example went to Mayfield and beyond, like Willoughby. Slavic village dwellers went south to places like garfield and Valley view. There are tons of reasons for this, but I'd say the biggest is the forced suburbanization perpetrated by the federal government with the construction of highways and utter demolition of core neighborhoods. Very sad indeed.

Might have seen it on this forum, but can't find it now, however maybe if you can find before and after pics of Cleveland pre and post highway you'll see how devastating it was. The post war "boom" was largely artificial. The east side just hasn't recovered. I think recovery is stalled greatly by the way the blacks are trapped in welfare- no incentive to start businesses or make real moves. Again this is a devilish government trick. Also can't forget the changing nature of industry. A lack of foresight by Clevelanders who were convinced that the world would never change and put all their eggs in one basket, at the reassurance of uncle sam, got screwed hard.

But there are some good things happening now. Obviously look at University circle. But less obviously, there are some things getting better in hough, asiatown, St clair, North collinwood. Still 20 years behind west side though I'd say.

Thanks for the information....I had no idea the highway had such a negative impact on the neighborhoods on the east side. I have reserved some books at the library on the history of those neighborhoods so maybe there will be photos. What a shame...I did notice the University Circle improvements so that seems to be positive. The architecture is amazing in Shaker and Cedar-Fairmount, where I am. But there's something incongruous which I can't put my finger on...there seem to be so many huge apartment buildings everywhere yet it doesn't seem that heavily populated. I guess I was hoping for more diversity and the culture it brings...all those ethic groups you wrote about...I guess I was expecting to see more of that (hoping for Jewish bakeries, etc etc).

[1watertiger]

Originally Posted by october2007

Just wondering what drove white population out of what seem like nice areas to live in. It seems like something must of happened and I was just wondering what.

New suburbs with yards and little crime were developing around older cities. White flight. Riots. More white flight and black flight.busing . countinued white and black flight.
Now the same patterns countinue in some of the eastside burbs. ie garfield, maple, warrensville, euclid

[october2007]

Originally Posted by 1watertiger

New suburbs with yards and little crime were developing around older cities. White flight. Riots. More white flight and black flight.busing . countinued white and black flight.
Now the same patterns countinue in some of the eastside burbs. ie garfield, maple, warrensville, euclid

I see....I wasn't sure how long it had been like this. Thank you.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by october2007

Thanks for the information....I had no idea the highway had such a negative impact on the neighborhoods on the east side. I have reserved some books at the library on the history of those neighborhoods so maybe they'll be photos. What a shame...I did notice the University Circle improvements so that seems to be positive. The architecture is amazing in Shaker and Cedar-Fairmount, where I am. But there's something incongruous which I can't put my finger on...there seem to be so many huge apartment buildings everywhere yet it doesn't seem that heavily populated. I guess I was hoping for more diversity and the culture it brings...all those ethic groups you wrote about...I guess I was expecting to see more of that (hoping for Jewish bakeries, etc etc).

I've felt the same about cedar Fairmount. I mean it's a great area, but you're right you'd think you'd see more people. Maybe they spend all their time at University circle? I bet that's the main reason why people live there. Though nighttown, vero, the Fairmount are all awesome.

I think the culture you're talking about is still there though just less clearly. The Jewish deli thing might not really be there, but go to slymans, gallucis, sterle's- all on the east side! Walk through asiatown and check out some restaurants. Red chimney in Slavic village, the Balaton at Shaker square. Bialys bagels in university heights is pretty great too, maybe that counts for the Jewish bagel thing. Corky and Lenny's in beachwood is the classic one though. There really is still a lot. Try a few of those and let us know how it was. I'm happy to suggest more too.