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Old 04-18-2017, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
5,732 posts, read 4,693,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjf1958 View Post
You have a huge chip on your shoulder. If Cleveland was really as good as you say, there'd be no need for any debate, people would be flocking to live and visit there. I have no bias one way or the other. As I said, I've been all over the country and have a goal to visit all 50 states and all cities in the top 100 of population. My wife lived in Shaker Heights years ago and she said she was almost never in the city center, except to go to an Indians game. Just not much happening there.
This is a typical attitude of suburbanites for many decades. People under 30 likely don't have this in their heads anymore. It really is outdated.

Quote:
To the other poster bringing up Cedar Point and the Pro Football Hall, that's really not Cleveland. I'm speaking to the city attractions only.
This is true. The region offers a lot, but including this kind of stuff like it's the same place isn't really helpful. If you're in town for 3 days, you really aren't looking to go drive an hour somewhere and back. Especially if you flew in. I know when I visit other cities, I never rent a car. I prefer to be in the city.

Quote:
Regarding DC, it's not the size of the area, it's the density of attractions and things to do in the area.
Personally, I find DC rather soulless and boring. There isn't really a lot to do. It's all the same thing over and over. Meh. I've been there like 7 times now and have family in the city and Northern Virginia. I just can't stand DC.
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Old 04-18-2017, 08:25 AM
Status: "Roll Tribe" (set 11 days ago)
 
31 posts, read 4,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjf1958 View Post
You have a huge chip on your shoulder. If Cleveland was really as good as you say, there'd be no need for any debate, people would be flocking to live and visit there. I have no bias one way or the other. As I said, I've been all over the country and have a goal to visit all 50 states and all cities in the top 100 of population. My wife lived in Shaker Heights years ago and she said she was almost never in the city center, except to go to an Indians game. Just not much happening there.

To the other poster bringing up Cedar Point and the Pro Football Hall, that's really not Cleveland. I'm speaking to the city attractions only.

Regarding DC, it's not the size of the area, it's the density of attractions and things to do in the area.

People are flocking here to visit. There's TONS of stuff happening in downtown, University Circle and the near westside.

Don't you have anything better to do other than internet trolling?


The agency released some data on visitor perceptions of the city that made the goal seem possible:
* 38 percent of potential visitors from nearby states said they would definitely or probably consider a leisure trip to Cleveland, up from 33 percent in 2015. The recent figure puts Cleveland on par with Columbus and Pittsburgh, two cities that in recent years have fared much better than Cleveland in perception surveys.
* National meeting planners, too, have improved their impressions of the city. In 2012, Cleveland was included on a list of cities that planners would "hardly consider" as a meeting host, due to concerns about cleanliness, safety and a lack of hotel rooms. In 2016, the city was included on a list of the top 15 most improved meeting destinations by Watkins Research Group.
* And, perhaps, best of all: The percentage of Clevelanders who say they would recommend their hometown as a visitor destination jumped dramatically in the past year, from 54 percent in 2015 to 77 percent in 2016.



Perceptions of Cleveland continue to rise; Destination Cleveland sets goal of 20 million visitors by 2020 | cleveland.com
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Old 04-18-2017, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
119 posts, read 103,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
I think it's wrong to want to be an "it city." Missing the point in my opinion.
Indeed ... I think the best way to ensure that you don't become an "it" city is to try hard to become an "it" city.
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Old 04-18-2017, 07:57 PM
 
2,616 posts, read 1,531,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjf1958 View Post
You have a huge chip on your shoulder. If Cleveland was really as good as you say, there'd be no need for any debate, people would be flocking to live and visit there. I have no bias one way or the other. As I said, I've been all over the country and have a goal to visit all 50 states and all cities in the top 100 of population. My wife lived in Shaker Heights years ago and she said she was almost never in the city center, except to go to an Indians game. Just not much happening there.

To the other poster bringing up Cedar Point and the Pro Football Hall, that's really not Cleveland. I'm speaking to the city attractions only.

Regarding DC, it's not the size of the area, it's the density of attractions and things to do in the area.
When exactly were you in Cleveland? How about your wife? I ask because the city has dramatically improved in the last 10, even the last 3 years. And while it's true that those two places aren't Cleveland, it's also true that Rocky Mountains aren't Denver, and Disney World isn't Orlando. It doesn't change the fact that those are seen as a popular tourist draw to those areas, for many.

As per D.C., it really didn't seem to have a traditional core Downtown in the sense that many cities do (including Cleveland). Now, there are some dynamic neighborhoods in town which surpass admittedly surpass even Cleveland's most dynamic (for example Georgetown and Logan Square may surpass an Ohio City or a University Circle, though each are interesting in their own way, and no one can argue DC's cultural/historical assets (though as I said, Cleveland outranks a strong majority of major cities in those areas). Cleveland also has more scenic appeal and outdoor recreation within city limits, if we're going to that. No ones arguing that DC has a ton going for it, but, you do seem to be trying to belittle the city for little apparent reason.
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Old 04-19-2017, 06:55 AM
 
Location: Cleveland Heights, OH
417 posts, read 495,845 times
Reputation: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by MN_Ski View Post
- Ohio can pass recreational MJ.
- Build a tech center and give incentives for companies to locate there.
- Improve public transit, invest in light rail to attract Millennials
- Invest in an extensive bike/trail system
- Clean up Lake Erie, create a clean/modern waterfront park
- Add more open spaces/retail/attractions downtown
- Maintain housing inventory to offer a competitive edge to other cities
- Attract more artists

I lived in Sandusky for 3 years and visited Cleveland almost twice a week. It has the bones to be an amazing city for Millennials. If you want to know how to attract Millennials, look at cities that have been getting explosive growth by the generation (Portland, Austin, Denver, Seattle).

While you can't beat the weather or mountains of those places, the city can improve in things like high tech jobs, dense downtown neighborhoods, light rail, walking/biking trails, open spaces, the arts, legalization, etc.
Good list. Out of the four cities you listed, I think Cleveland is most similar to Austin. Both have extreme weather and no mountains. I definitely prefer Cleveland's weather to Austin's, but some would prefer Austin's. I just arrived here, and I'm surprised that April is so nice. I had been wondering if Cleveland was a 'four seasons' area, and now I'm thinking it is. It may depend on the year, though.

I also think Cleveland would be a great place for HGTV's Fixer Upper show, with all of the great, older homes in the area. That would be some good advertising for the city.
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Old 04-19-2017, 10:10 AM
 
1,361 posts, read 2,108,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavsfan137 View Post
Kansas City? I don't know if you're just trying to raise debate, or find out what it is that is of appeal in Cleveland, but, while Cleveland may not be what an LA or NYC is for tourists, it does offer quite a bit.

For "Tourist Attraction People":
Cedar Point (Yes, I'm considering anywhere within an hour of city limits to be a part of offerings for the region. I don't know how much you've been around, but from what I understand, as roller coaster parks go in general, Six Flags MM is about the only one in it's peer range in the US. Sure, Orlando and LA are still bigger theme park capitals, but this doesn't rate poorly, and is a destination for many.

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (I feel like this used to be a bigger deal 20-30 years ago when it was the biggest genre, but, it seems to be moving past growing pains, and the music that is considered "Rock and Roll" became so much more iconic than any other brand of music, that I don't see it dying. For people that are fans of bands such as The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Elvis, various other generations of music, the place really is can't miss (at least if more knew it was here. Marketing DOES still need more work)

Pro Football Hall of Fame (Considering how BIG Pro Football is compared to any other sport in America, this is a big get. They are also massively increasing investment there in upcoming years. Another must hit, for a significant portion of the traveling American population.

So, these, I suppose you could say, are kind of like anchors. People don't hit them all the time, but they kind of give the area something it is known for.

Let's move on to other areas.
Sports: The Cleveland area has all 3 Major Pro Sports (by revenue/popularity). Even if you aren't yourself a sports fan, that is still significant when thinking about the importance of sports in the American consciousness. There are only 3 other Metropolitan areas in the Midwest, and I believe only 15 in the entire country which can make that claim.

Culture: Others have already described the significance of Cleveland's fine arts institutions and museums, and not just here. The research and raving out there on that is extensive. Cleveland is quite possibly a Top 10 city for this (certainly, there are usual suspects, like LA and SF, CHI, and the BOS-WASH Corridor, but beyond that, I can't think of another city that I would put ahead of Cleveland in that regard (if anything they would be on the same level, and Cleveland can even hang with some of the lower level ones from that "Big 7" I mentioned.

History: Also duly noted in previous posts. Cleveland just has an interesting history/aesthetic in general, and even has some cool modern design as of late to spice things up. If were talking Top 40 Metros (as in ones that have at least one big league team, and aren't Green Bay), for the person that enjoys checking out historic areas, Cleveland is probably in the top 3rd of that group, borderline Top 10 depending on interests. The industrial aesthetic is especially unique, and even the suburbs are not cookie cutter in many areas, as they were about the first area of the US developed after the constitution, and so there are at least 10 communities in the region that followed the New England Town Plan in design, and feel more like they'd belong in say Connecticut or Massachusetts than the Midwest.

Food/Drink: I suppose it depends on how we group things. My personal belief is that nowadays, most metros that exceed a million have most every food/drink option a person could want, and so the bigger question is aesthetic. In that sense, Cleveland has A LOT of places beat. Michael Symon is one of the most recognizable personalities in food today, and his main flagship restaurant, as well as those of other proteges of his, are all in a dense walkable area. The West Side Market, both for aesthetic and quality, is unmatched by most cities anywhere in the US. Add to that a Little Italy, an AsiaTown, a distinct Eastern European flair (you really can't find Slovenian and Hungarian food everywhere), but yet also the ability to easily find ethnic cuisine as varied as Ethiopian and Puerto Rican. To top it all off, Cleveland is considered one of the biggest destinations for beer in the US.

Nature: Last point, (though there are others), Cleveland's nature is one of it's underrated features. Lake Erie may not be thought of as highly as the coasts are, but it is still scenic, and provides many unique opportunities and a generally unique feel overall (not better or worse than coasts, just different). It's also important to note Cleveland's location right on the water. Again, out of the "Top 40" metros, just 13 can say that they are within that close of distance of a body of water so vast, one can't see the other side of it (fun surprising fact also, Cleveland ranks 10th out of the big 40 cities for topographical relief within city limits. Salt Lake City it ain't, but it ain't flat either.). I feel like National Parks are a pretty big deal in general also (for visitors. In fact visitation is at an all time high, in the tens of millions). Cuyahoga Valley NP is one of 59 units given the highest NPS classification and resource status, and one of only 10 east of the Mississippi River. I believe it is also the one most closely located to a major city. If nothing else, the rock ledge tunnels and sheer volume of waterfalls/gorges, plus urban forest, is quite unique. Adding on to that, Cleveland Metroparks is truly overwhelming in it's sheer size, though I hope it's presence will become larger within city limits. As a regional park system, it really could compete among the likes of Minneapolis type systems. Lastly, while this point may not be the most helpful, Cleveland can be used as a jumping off point to natural attractions better than many major cities can. The rolling hills/farms of Amish Country SW of town are bucolic, and not unlike their more publicized cousin in PA. The Lake Erie Islands, esp. Put in Bay is another highly unique, 'removed' feeling destination (nicknamed Key West of the North). Slightly further out, one can reach scenery and activities (including some of the best skiing/whitewater in the US) that fall under the Appalachian/Allegheny mountains, plus Niagara Falls and other grand Upstate NY Gorges, in 3 hours or less.

In short, there's a lot, if you know where to look for it. But I will say Cleveland is a city where you have to peel back it's layers to find all of that though.
Great post! It's so comprehensive it saves me a lot of typing so as not to be repetitive. Suffice it to say, most people have a very short attention span that's gotten even shorter with social media. As Andrew noted earlier, last year was a banner year for positive press in Cleveland -- the Cavs championship, the very successful RNC (from Cleveland's POV; not the screwed up convention itself which, sadly, ultimately delivered You Know Who to the WH) and, then, the tremendous Indians' World Series run in the fall that captured the nation. But unfortunately those are all transitory and easily forgotten in the public mindset -- the visitors who came for these events did leave with a very positive impression and they are spreading positive Cleveland stories by word-of-mouth... Michael Symon is an awesome Cleveland ambassador, but unless you are a serious Food Channel foodie or home during the day to watch "The Chew" regularly (Michael really touts Cleveland on the Chew, but it's not like every day), you may not even know who he is... So today when I mention Cleveland people still tend to default to the same old thing: the Rock Hall. Guess we should be grateful for small things: I'll gladly take the Rock Hall over the negative, stupid Cuyahoga River fire of umpteen decades ago, but still being just known for the Rock Hall is limiting.

Quite obviously, as one who travels, I objectively believe Cleveland's cultural assets: Playhouse Square, the Art Museum and the galaxy of museums surrounding in University Circle -- as well as beautiful Severance Hall and it's No. 1 in the world Cleveland Orchestra -- can stand up to any city's in the country. But for the average shlub, why travel to medium-sized Cleveland out in the boring Midwest (not my words, but just sayin') when they can soak up comparable culture in D.C., NYC, SF, Chicago and the like, and also have the abundance of all the other cool stuff? Entertainment/recreation-wise Cleveland has a lot to do and has advanced considerably over the last decade and is superior to its Midwestern neighbors not named Chicago imho, (Downtown, Ohio City and the new Flats East Bank, alone, -- and, OK, the R&RHOF too -- would be worth the trip to me), but it's awfully hard convincing the larger public of this, especially when the general narrative is that Cleveland is a "Rust Belt" city (the ugliness of that moniker speaks for itself) that is merely another Detroit rather than the attractive (on many fronts) city that we locals tend to see.

Last edited by TheProf; 04-19-2017 at 10:27 AM..
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Old 04-19-2017, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
5,732 posts, read 4,693,055 times
Reputation: 4590
That is a good point: why would someone go to Cleveland to visit when they could go to Chicago? Chances are, regardless of where you're from, flights to Chicago are easier. Chicago also has a "close enough" culture that it would suffice for anyone looking to get a taste of the Great Lakes region.

Serious travelers who like getting to a variety of places will have reason to come to Cleveland, but I'm talking about the general tourist. For most, I honestly think the Rock Hall is the reason to come to Cleveland and that's really it. Now, they might find while they're here that there is so much more, but that doesn't change that the Rock Hall is the "unique" thing to tourists. Some people might come and go to Canton for Football Hall of Fame too. But again, that's not actually Cleveland.

In my opinion, Cleveland shouldn't focus on tourists. It's smack dab between Chicago and New York. I mean, might as well try to market to some of those serious travelers I mentioned, but you're never going to be a bigger draw than those two cities. I think Cleveland should create some version of special economic zones within the city. Get rid of obstacles for people to start their own businesses, make it attractive for people to move their businesses here, and also for getting just normal people to move in. Cleveland should be focused on being a livable city, not a "sexy" one. In my opinion, tourist destinations are way overrated typically anyway.
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Old 04-19-2017, 04:27 PM
Status: "Roll Tribe" (set 11 days ago)
 
31 posts, read 4,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
That is a good point: why would someone go to Cleveland to visit when they could go to Chicago? Chances are, regardless of where you're from, flights to Chicago are easier. Chicago also has a "close enough" culture that it would suffice for anyone looking to get a taste of the Great Lakes region.

Serious travelers who like getting to a variety of places will have reason to come to Cleveland, but I'm talking about the general tourist. For most, I honestly think the Rock Hall is the reason to come to Cleveland and that's really it. Now, they might find while they're here that there is so much more, but that doesn't change that the Rock Hall is the "unique" thing to tourists. Some people might come and go to Canton for Football Hall of Fame too. But again, that's not actually Cleveland.

In my opinion, Cleveland shouldn't focus on tourists. It's smack dab between Chicago and New York. I mean, might as well try to market to some of those serious travelers I mentioned, but you're never going to be a bigger draw than those two cities. I think Cleveland should create some version of special economic zones within the city. Get rid of obstacles for people to start their own businesses, make it attractive for people to move their businesses here, and also for getting just normal people to move in. Cleveland should be focused on being a livable city, not a "sexy" one. In my opinion, tourist destinations are way overrated typically anyway.

You're selling the city short big time. I know A LOT of people from both coasts that love visiting Cleveland, and they don't even have family here. Ex: I met a girl last summer who works for Twitter. She was in charge of setting up the logistics for their employee's during the RNC at the Greenhouse Tavern. She just sent an email letting me know that her and three of friends booked a vacation to Cleveland this summer. She had a blast and wants to show her friends how cool the city is becoming. Tourism IS a big industry for Cleveland.

I must say (and this isn't a knock on any specific individual) this forum has the least informative commenters out of all the forums I frequent.

I'll just leave this right here:

The tourism industry, he said, sustains 66,000 jobs in Cuyahoga County, up from 61,000 five years ago. "It truly is an industry," said Walsh. "This isn't about cheerleading. It's about creating jobs."
The agency last year hired the travel consulting team from Ernst & Young to help develop a strategic plan for the next five years.


Perceptions of Cleveland continue to rise; Destination Cleveland sets goal of 20 million visitors by 2020 | cleveland.com
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Old 04-19-2017, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
5,732 posts, read 4,693,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C-rob2727 View Post
You're selling the city short big time. I know A LOT of people from both coasts that love visiting Cleveland, and they don't even have family here. Ex: I met a girl last summer who works for Twitter. She was in charge of setting up the logistics for their employee's during the RNC at the Greenhouse Tavern. She just sent an email letting me know that her and three of friends booked a vacation to Cleveland this summer. She had a blast and wants to show her friends how cool the city is becoming. Tourism IS a big industry for Cleveland.

I must say (and this isn't a knock on any specific individual) this forum has the least informative commenters out of all the forums I frequent.

I'll just leave this right here:

The tourism industry, he said, sustains 66,000 jobs in Cuyahoga County, up from 61,000 five years ago. "It truly is an industry," said Walsh. "This isn't about cheerleading. It's about creating jobs."
The agency last year hired the travel consulting team from Ernst & Young to help develop a strategic plan for the next five years.


Perceptions of Cleveland continue to rise; Destination Cleveland sets goal of 20 million visitors by 2020 | cleveland.com
We all can cite individuals who came to Cleveland and liked it. But can you seriously think Cleveland can compete with Chicago and new York for tourists?

Like I said, sure there are some people who will be interested in coming. Might as well try to get as many as you can. It's nice to see more people visiting. But tourism is NOT going to be the backbone of Cleveland. Destination cleveland wants 20 million by 2020 or something? Faneuil hall in boston alone already gets more than 20 million visitors per year. Cleveland is WAY behind. And thats ok. I'm not sure you really thought about the message of my post here. The advantage of what Cleveland can have is that it's a fantastic place to live. It could be better though. Worrying about what people who don't live there want to do for 3 days during a business trip is selling the city short, in my opinion.

As I said, cleveland attracts most with the rock hall. Ask anyone from the general american to name anything in Cleveland other than the rock hall and I doubt they could (as a tourist attraction). Nor could they name a street in cle. I rarely run into people on the east coast (where I actually live all the time) who have anything to say about Cleveland at all that isn't about lebron james.

Again my point is that Cleveland is just not going to become a "popular" city on the national scale. That's probably a good thing. It's much smarter to focus on jobs and economics to grow the city and make it relevant again. I think within our lifetimes we can see major progress.
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Old 04-19-2017, 05:38 PM
 
252 posts, read 79,768 times
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Coming from Seattle which is an "It" city, I remember when I moved there in 1989 there wasn't much to it from a tourist perspective. There was the Space Needle and Pike Place Market and the Underground Tour in the old part of the city (Pioneer Square), but no really good museums or historic sights. But the setting is gorgeous - ferries crossing Puget Sound with the Olympic Mountains in the distance...all very scenic. And it used to be a very livable place before becoming an "It" city which led to its ruination IMO. So it seems to me that Cleveland could and should work more on creating a city/area that draws people to work and live here. I don't see all that much here to draw tourists especially when compared to Chicago and NYC as others have noted, but if more neighborhoods were revitalized as well as the downtown, and the waterfront area enhanced and maximized, that would help too. I think the main thing should be to make it an appealing and desirable place to live and the rest will probably follow.
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