Anyone know why they put a moratorium on Cleveland threads in city vs city? (Alliance: real estate, 2014)

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by pufflesmcfacehair

One of the most segregated cities, if not the most segregated city in the country.
The majority of Cleveland children are impoverished.
The school systems are in shambles.
The city is not walkable.
Generally, roads are in horrible shape.

Proposal of the "bridge to no where".
Rampant crime.
Gang violence.
Absurd acts of violence which semi-regularly appear in the news, the most recent being the "Facebook live killer", a gunfight from moving vehicles that injured bystanders, and some guys who robbed the car of someone who was shot in the car while he was dragging his nearly-lifeless body to his house to get medical attention.
Whole neighborhoods which cannot be entered and, judging from events that happen in them, cannot be driven through.
Crime encroaching into suburbs beyond merely the inner ring.
Industry and employment are heavily services sector and low salary/wage.
Median incomes are very low.
Lots of abandoned property.
Amtrak has awful schedules out of Cleveland; Greyhound terminal is disturbing. Airport is doing sufficient though.


And no logical response can be, "you're soooo negative!" I'm realistic - and you asked me to substantiate my post. Things like massive poverty supercede the points that involve something like a rock-climbing wall. It amazes me when people will handicap places like Cleveland by stating it's somehow special now because of a brewery or a new hiking trail when 150000 people are barely surviving. Ad hominem attacks are logically fallacious as well; funny how people can't keep themselves together in the face of facts that they have to attack the person expressing them.

Places like Cleveland have massive amounts of negatives versus their weight in positives. It's OK to admit. You can be realistic.

So are you comparing Cleveland, or Greater Cleveland with other metropolitan areas? There's a vast difference.

So many areas of the U.S. have high crime rates and gang activity, such as this story that I recently read about Long Island.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/violent-s...043938488.html

There are many great Cleveland suburbs with good school systems. Even some of the City of Cleveland magnet schools are relatively good.

Cleveland's magnet schools score as well on state tests as St. Ignatius | cleveland.com

Cleveland has better mass transit, cultural institutions, and pro sports teams and facilities than most cities its size. It has very low housing costs. It has relatively short commuting times.

https://public.tableau.com/profile/m...rea/Dashboard1

The Cleveland MSA has relatively high per capita incomes, and relatively low housing costs. This combination results in lower household incomes because singles live alone rather than with other singles.

Many of your "realistic" assumptions aren't supported by facts. E.g., the Cleveland MSA per capita income is 23rd among the 280 U.S. MSAs, higher than Columbus, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._United_States

BTW, the Cleveland Greyhound terminal is one of the better ones in the U.S., and Cleveland actually has a Megabus terminal, not a street corner.

[Minervah]

Originally Posted by pufflesmcfacehair

It's fun to be followed.

Nope. I've been posting on these forums since 2007.

[216facts]

Most of these forums, particularly "city vs city", bring together people that feel passionate about their cities. They also know a lot about their city and can list (ad infinitum) the advantages. Sometimes the arguments go too far, and what started out as a productive discussion of comparisons, swirls down into an endless back and forth, ending in personal jabs if not nasty four letter words. At that point, you got to cut it off because its not productive.

There is no need to engage in personal jabs and a lengthy back and forth. Nearly all cities have some advantages over other cities. Find those, compliment other cities advantages, and move on, ending the argument.

[Minervah]

Originally Posted by pufflesmcfacehair

Cleveland really has a far higher amount of negatives than positives, sorry.

Oh, you don't have to apologize, intelligent people know all things are relative. Cleveland has a much higher amount of positives for me than my former city of Portland. Others looking to move to Cleveland feel the same about the cities from which they are looking to move. Why else would they chose to move here?

Negatives and positives in a city whether it's Cleveland or any other place, will depend upon the wants and needs of the individual.

[Minervah]

Originally Posted by 216facts

Most of these forums, particularly "city vs city", bring together people that feel passionate about their cities. They also know a lot about their city and can list (ad infinitum) the advantages. Sometimes the arguments go too far, and what started out as a productive discussion of comparisons, swirls down into an endless back and forth, ending in personal jabs if not nasty four letter words. At that point, you got to cut it off because its not productive.

There is no need to engage in personal jabs and a lengthy back and forth. Nearly all cities have some advantages over other cities. Find those, compliment other cities advantages, and move on, ending the argument.

This is very true. There are also people who don't live in a particular city but will come on CD to bash it anyway with knowledge only gotten through hearsay. Often they have never even personally been to the city they are criticizing. I have actually run into posters who have done this. That's why when people don't include the name of their city in their profile I always take what they have to say with a grain of salt. And even at that, it's just opinion more than fact unless they can supply links to back up their comments.

I remember when I moved from Chicago to Portland people I met in Portland often told me with great confidence totally erroneous statements about the city in which I had lived for over thirty years. They were simply parroting stereotypes or false stories they saw on TV or in the movies which made them feel knowledgeable enough to tell me what my former city was like.

People do that all the time, so again, grain of salt.

[videobruce]

Oh, you don't have to apologize

He doesn't know how to, most all he posts is negative especially when it comes to living in a actual city.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by pufflesmcfacehair

MSA is not the City of Cleveland. Convenient to include the suburbs to make an argument look better. I'm obviously talking about the city. Once again, I don't sugar-coat the reality.

Cleveland has a relatively small land area compared to other cities with which comparisons are made, such as Columbus. The city's population isn't even a majority of Cuyahoga County. So a concentration of the MSA's worst neighborhoods in the city distorts the city's numbers.

Originally Posted by pufflesmcfacehair

Pro sports teams don't contribute to economies in a positive way, $$-wise. This is commonly-known material.

Those calculations can vary by city. The concentration of Cleveland's sports venues downtown obviously has benefited the revival of the Gateway and Warehouse districts. Those in turn have helped boost Cleveland's convention profile and helped spur the boom in downtown's residential population. Show me a Cleveland relevant study that assesses the impact of that multiplier effect. I've never seen one.

Originally Posted by pufflesmcfacehair

Feel free to say a few negative things about Cleveland - if you choose to be unbiased.

You obviously missed by numerous posts about my negative outlook for the Cleveland economy long-term, partially due to an over-emphasis on the medical industry and the stifling impact of the Republican Toll Road.

Combining that with the ongoing pollution of Lake Erie by ag interests, I've been very critical of Cleveland's political and media elites.

I've lamented the failure of Ohio Republicans to support mass transit, public schools, and local government posts. All negatively impact Cleveland's future.

I've even discussed the crime problems in certain neighborhoods, and the tremendous failures of the Cleveland Police Dept. in cases such as the Tamir Rice shooting.

As a newcomer to this thread, just because I don't agree with uninformed let alone substantiated ridiculousness, doesn't mean that I think everything is golden in Cleveland.

Someone who consistently confuses their opinions with facts and then calls someone else biased is a hypocrite IMO.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by pufflesmcfacehair

Other than the COL and traffic

Portland certainly doesn't top Cleveland in downtown pro sports, or likely theater offerings.

And I've never heard that Portland has any cultural district comparable to University Circle.

Personally, I wouldn't consider living there due to the earthquake risk.

[Minervah]

Originally Posted by pufflesmcfacehair

I was just in PDX (I assume you mean Oregon and not Maine) three days ago. I would find it amazingly hard for someone to argue objectively (or even subjectively) that the city of Portland offers less than Cleveland. I am not even a particularly fan of PDX and think it is overrated but that's absurd. Other than the COL and traffic, PDX has piles of advantages. Better airport, mass transit, income, downtown offerings, lower crime, far less segregation, far more walkable, etc.

Also, watch out - you live in Lakewood. You'll get harassed for any criticisms you have of city-proper. But then they'll use MSA to describe the positives. I.e. you can't say the bad but they can absorb your good.

Yes, I am talking about Portland, OR. I can say it because it's true. For me. I lived there for forty years, you just visited. There's a huge difference.

I am not arguing as which is better. I never said Portland offered less than Cleveland for everyone. I said it offered less for me. You missed my whole point of different places working or not working for different people in different situations.

There are downsides to the features you are listing for Portland as someone who lived there would know.

What's so difficult to comprehend about this?

[Minervah]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Portland certainly doesn't top Cleveland in downtown pro sports, or likely theater offerings.

And I've never heard that Portland has any cultural district comparable to University Circle.

Personally, I wouldn't consider living there due to the earthquake risk.

It doesn't. Not even close. But it does have some nice offerings, and the scenery, what hasn't been plowed under is nice. I can see where a visitor would be impressed but living there, unless one is quite well-to-do is difficult. To me that's the most important thing. That's why I relocated to Cleveland.

All the extras Cleveland offers are a bonus for me.