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Where in the NJ/NYC area are you?
If you're trying to live without a car, I think Shaker Square is the top option because of the easy transit access and useful amenities right in the square.
Lakewood does have the Cleveland State bus line which is not actually BRT but is a relatively efficient bus line.
Lakewood does have the Cleveland State bus line which is not actually BRT but is a relatively efficient bus line.
I would still give Shaker Square the edge because of how centralized it all is. The rail stop, bus stops, the businesses, and so many of the housing units are right in the square or adjacent to it. You can easily live within a 0-3 minute walk of everything. In Lakewood you'll still be well within walking distance, but for a lot of locations, it's just an extra few minutes that can make a difference. The difference between a 2 minute walk and a 12 minute walk when you just want to pick up some milk is significant.
That said, Lakewood has more possible walking destinations overall, they are just a little bit more spread out. The same with Cleveland Heights. Since OP won't have a car, I think it's an important distinction.
Some of the more centrally located areas of Lakewood and Cleveland Heights can approach Shaker Square's car-free friendliness.
I would still give Shaker Square the edge because of how centralized it all is. The rail stop, bus stops, the businesses, and so many of the housing units are right in the square or adjacent to it. You can easily live within a 0-3 minute walk of everything.
Shaker Square has a Dave's supermarket.
It's also possible from Shaker Square to take RTA to Legacy Village and Beachwood Place, collectively northern Ohio's upscale shopping district. Check Google Transit at the RTA home page for directions
Hello,
Can anyone give me complete info. on living/buying home or condo in Cleveland. I would prefer a downtown environment, since I am in NJ/NYC area and have become used to walkability (important, since I do not/will not keep a vehicle.) obviously need good public transportation also. I am wondering if Shaker Heights is walkable, housing looks appealing & affordable; however, it does look suburban, which is not so appealing to me. What about Cleveland Heights, Shaker Square. is all of this are suburban? I have briefly checked condo listing in downtown area and seems as if many are way out of my price range upwards of $300,000. Is there affordable housing and walkability for someone buying a house?? Could go to $230,00 approximately. Need/want 3 BR + 1.5 baths, good condition. What neighborhoods walkable in the downtown area??
Any help, suggestions would be helpful.
Thanks.
OP, I actually lived in Cleveland for two years without a car (2004-2006). This was part of a 12-year period of my life (1999-2011) when I did not own a car. I chose Ohio City because I also worked there and the entire county was easy to navigate through a combination of transit, bicycle and walking trips. The key for car-free living in Cleveland is to establish residence within 1/3 mile (7-8 minute walk) of a rail transit station. Buses (including BRT) are fine, but you need access to a rail station to maximize the benefit of transit. You also want to be within 1/3 mile (7-8 minute walk) of a grocery store and even better if you are within the same distance of a retail pharmacy. Given those criteria, I suggest you consider:
DOWNTOWN (INCLUDES FLATS EAST BANK, PLAYHOUSE SQUARE, WAREHOUSE DISTRICT)
OHIO CITY (INCLUDES "SOLO" and "HINGETOWN")
UNIVERSITY CIRCLE (INCLUDES LITTLE ITALY)
SHAKER SQUARE (INCLUDES LARCHMERE)
There are other areas suggested to you in this thread that I do not recommend if you wish to enjoy a high quality of car-free life. Here are my reasons:
SHAKER TOWNE CENTER (ALSO KNOWN AS CHAGRIN/LEE): Has both good access to rail transit and a full-service grocery store (Heinen's), but definitely has a more inner suburban feel. There is high-density housing along Van Aken Boulevard and a new townhouse development proposed at Van Aken and Avalon, but no groundbreaking just yet.
VAN AKEN DISTRICT: This is my "hood" and I bought my house there because of the anticipated new development of Shaker's downtown. While rail transit access is good, there is currently no grocery store. We had one, corporate closed it, and now we must wait for a new one as part of the broader redevelopment. The City of Shaker Heights is trying to shift development design from suburban to urban, but this will take time. Full disclosure: I now own a car and I do use it for grocery trips and other errands.
LAKEWOOD: The entire city does not have good access to an RTA rail station, except at W 117th Street and Madison Avenue, the most southeast corner of the city. Lots of bus and BRT "Light" service, but this just isn't the same: you need rail.
DETROIT SHOREWAY: Does not have good access to an RTA rail station, except at W 65th and Lorain Avenue, the most southern part of the neighborhood. Also, the Sav-A-Lot grocery store would not be my preferred default. The difficulty here is that the node of activity (Gordon Square) is not co-located with the rail station. This means that if you live near Gordon Square, you will have a healthy schlep down West 65th Street every time you want to access the rail system. I've done it many times, but "doable" and "desirable" are not the same.
CEDAR-FAIRMOUNT: Does not have good access to an RTA rail station. Yes, you can hoof your way up and down Cedar Hill to and from the rail station at the bottom, but see my earlier note on "doable" versus "desirable."
COVENTRY: No good access to an RTA rail station
LEE ROAD: No good access to an RTA rail station
FAIRMOUNT CIRCLE: No good access to an RTA rail station; no grocery store.
You have not mentioned where you will work, so that might impact your decision. However, I would focus your search on the four areas I recommended earlier. Those four areas provide high quality of life for a car-free individual who also works/attends school full time; other areas require significant compromise or are impossible.
RTA, like many other transit systems, use BRT in a loose manner that really waters down the term. The bus-only lanes are only during certain times of day (so, I'll give them half credit for that). However, there is no type of signal prioritization, and the system doesn't use all-door boarding because people don't have the option to pay fares at the stations before boarding (one of the central tenants of a real BRT system). The line is BRT for marketing purposes but in actual planning terms is not a real BRT system. If you aren't familiar with the term "BRT creep" then check out the Wikipedia page for it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_rapid_transit_creep
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferraris
I would still give Shaker Square the edge because of how centralized it all is. The rail stop, bus stops, the businesses, and so many of the housing units are right in the square or adjacent to it. You can easily live within a 0-3 minute walk of everything. In Lakewood you'll still be well within walking distance, but for a lot of locations, it's just an extra few minutes that can make a difference. The difference between a 2 minute walk and a 12 minute walk when you just want to pick up some milk is significant.
That said, Lakewood has more possible walking destinations overall, they are just a little bit more spread out. The same with Cleveland Heights. Since OP won't have a car, I think it's an important distinction.
Some of the more centrally located areas of Lakewood and Cleveland Heights can approach Shaker Square's car-free friendliness.
Totally. I wasn't necessarily advocating for Lakewood over Shaker, just mentioning that it does have reliable transit options.
You can make most neighborhoods along the major RTA routes work. For example, I live in Cudell which is a neighborhood that generally does not receive the city-data seal of approval. We do, however, have a bus and rail transit hub right on the border with Edgewater which makes getting around car-free extremely easy. Cudell also has more direct Red Line access than Edgewater just by nature of the street grid.
RTA, like many other transit systems, use BRT in a loose manner that really waters down the term. The bus-only lanes are only during certain times of day (so, I'll give them half credit for that). However, there is no type of signal prioritization, and the system doesn't use all-door boarding because people don't have the option to pay fares at the stations before boarding (one of the central tenants of a real BRT system). The line is BRT for marketing purposes but in actual planning terms is not a real BRT system. If you aren't familiar with the term "BRT creep" then check out the Wikipedia page for it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_rapid_transit_creep
Amen. We have "BRT" here too (as noted in the wikipedia article there). It has its own lane and tunnels even until all of a sudden you're merging onto the highway with everyone else in the city. Really slows things down a lot.
OP, I actually lived in Cleveland for two years without a car (2004-2006). This was part of a 12-year period of my life (1999-2011) when I did not own a car. I chose Ohio City because I also worked there and the entire county was easy to navigate through a combination of transit, bicycle and walking trips. The key for car-free living in Cleveland is to establish residence within 1/3 mile (7-8 minute walk) of a rail transit station. Buses (including BRT) are fine, but you need access to a rail station to maximize the benefit of transit. You also want to be within 1/3 mile (7-8 minute walk) of a grocery store and even better if you are within the same distance of a retail pharmacy. Given those criteria, I suggest you consider:
DOWNTOWN (INCLUDES FLATS EAST BANK, PLAYHOUSE SQUARE, WAREHOUSE DISTRICT)
OHIO CITY (INCLUDES "SOLO" and "HINGETOWN")
UNIVERSITY CIRCLE (INCLUDES LITTLE ITALY)
SHAKER SQUARE (INCLUDES LARCHMERE)
There are other areas suggested to you in this thread that I do not recommend if you wish to enjoy a high quality of car-free life. Here are my reasons:
SHAKER TOWNE CENTER (ALSO KNOWN AS CHAGRIN/LEE): Has both good access to rail transit and a full-service grocery store (Heinen's), but definitely has a more inner suburban feel. There is high-density housing along Van Aken Boulevard and a new townhouse development proposed at Van Aken and Avalon, but no groundbreaking just yet.
VAN AKEN DISTRICT: This is my "hood" and I bought my house there because of the anticipated new development of Shaker's downtown. While rail transit access is good, there is currently no grocery store. We had one, corporate closed it, and now we must wait for a new one as part of the broader redevelopment. The City of Shaker Heights is trying to shift development design from suburban to urban, but this will take time. Full disclosure: I now own a car and I do use it for grocery trips and other errands.
LAKEWOOD: The entire city does not have good access to an RTA rail station, except at W 117th Street and Madison Avenue, the most southeast corner of the city. Lots of bus and BRT "Light" service, but this just isn't the same: you need rail.
DETROIT SHOREWAY: Does not have good access to an RTA rail station, except at W 65th and Lorain Avenue, the most southern part of the neighborhood. Also, the Sav-A-Lot grocery store would not be my preferred default. The difficulty here is that the node of activity (Gordon Square) is not co-located with the rail station. This means that if you live near Gordon Square, you will have a healthy schlep down West 65th Street every time you want to access the rail system. I've done it many times, but "doable" and "desirable" are not the same.
CEDAR-FAIRMOUNT: Does not have good access to an RTA rail station. Yes, you can hoof your way up and down Cedar Hill to and from the rail station at the bottom, but see my earlier note on "doable" versus "desirable."
COVENTRY: No good access to an RTA rail station
LEE ROAD: No good access to an RTA rail station
FAIRMOUNT CIRCLE: No good access to an RTA rail station; no grocery store.
You have not mentioned where you will work, so that might impact your decision. However, I would focus your search on the four areas I recommended earlier. Those four areas provide high quality of life for a car-free individual who also works/attends school full time; other areas require significant compromise or are impossible.
PM me if you want to chat further...good luck!
Excellent summary with good suggestions, but I have some questions.
If a resident is going to operate without a car, won't a person, especially a senior, purchase an RTA monthly pass?
With a monthly pass, wouldn't it be possible with a convenient hand cart, to live in the Van Aken District and shop at the Heinen's at Shaker Town Center?
Also, several rail rapid stations have good connecting bus routes, such as the Red Line Little Italy station connected to Coventry Village by the number 9 RTA bus route. That's why I suggested using Google Transit once someone has prospective residences in order to check out mass transit options to likely destinations. The number 9 bus also provides access the Healthline bus rapid, University Circle attractions, and several shopping centers and likely supermarkets. Of course, from the Little Italy station, it would be possible to visit the West Side Market easily, with the West 25th Red Line station across the street from the WSM.
Corrected> I looked it up. Just down from there. Thanks!
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Just down from there. Thanks!
