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Anyone have experience of sending their kids there? It is a private school for gifted kids, grades K through 8. DD and son-in-law are applying to send oldest grandson there for Kindergarten this fall, pending an IQ test. He's 4, reads at second grade level, is doing third grade math, and is really obsessed with math and science (namely space). Menlo has an early enrollment program. His mom and dad persistently tried to enroll him this fall at their own school district, to no avail. The process was like pulling teeth. They were happy to learn that early Kindergarten enrollment at Menlo is common. He will be turning 5 this fall, so it's not that early.
I've read great things about Menlo. DD and son-in-law have done their homework...toured it, and are extremely impressed. DD almost cried, actually, because she thinks it's just the kind of school grandson needs to develop his full potential. They've scheduled the IQ test and are ready to get the ball rolling if he makes it. However, this involved grandma would really appreciate some first hand feedback from parents whose kids go/have gone there.
Last edited by Mrs. Skeffington; 06-23-2018 at 12:43 AM..
I constantly tell K teachers during screening, "Any boy that shows up and is 4, turn away and let them have another year of play." I have seen more than a few do just fine in early ed, but then really struggle emotionally around 8th grade when changes occur and they are "left behind" so to speak. I actually had 2 students skip a grade and to this day, as adults, complain to their parents that high school sucked for them. Not academically and both were GATE.
Think long term.
There is so much more than an ability and potential vs. executive function. For some kids, I'm sure it is fine, but percentage wise, it seems rare.
In our program, we got away from IQ tests years ago. We had kids hating GATE that were gifted and did not have the work ethic or interest. We started going to a platform based on ability and maturity. Kids who were really motivated and engaged in learning now get Academic Advanced projects and such, not just "smart kids". There is a lot to be said for those kids who just work and love learning. They tend to fair better than most in the long run.
Sounds like a magnet program, which one school does here. I wonder how competitive some of those parents are. I'm sure it's similar to here. I chuckle when each parent tries to put their child "just above" the others in conversation. It's many times about the parents' egos, not the kid. I like to take my class out to climb trees and will say, "Today, we find out who is gifted in tree climbing," or, have them play drums, "Today, we find out who is gifted in rhythm and who should be taking percussion classes."
My one piece of advice is to really think long term about a 4 year-old boy in K down the road with emotionally and physical development. There is nothing wrong with waiting a year until he's 5. My bday is in Sept. I could read and do all that when I was turning 5, but I was immature and active. My mom waited until I was turning 6 in Sept. to start K. Glad she did. I was still the least mature kid in the room, but a year prior? I would have been in real trouble in high school. Instead I was just sort of in trouble.
I constantly tell K teachers during screening, "Any boy that shows up and is 4, turn away and let them have another year of play." I have seen more than a few do just fine in early ed, but then really struggle emotionally around 8th grade when changes occur and they are "left behind" so to speak. I actually had 2 students skip a grade and to this day, as adults, complain to their parents that high school sucked for them. Not academically and both were GATE.
Think long term.
There is so much more than an ability and potential vs. executive function. For some kids, I'm sure it is fine, but percentage wise, it seems rare.
In our program, we got away from IQ tests years ago. We had kids hating GATE that were gifted and did not have the work ethic or interest. We started going to a platform based on ability and maturity. Kids who were really motivated and engaged in learning now get Academic Advanced projects and such, not just "smart kids". There is a lot to be said for those kids who just work and love learning. They tend to fair better than most in the long run.
Sounds like a magnet program, which one school does here. I wonder how competitive some of those parents are. I'm sure it's similar to here. I chuckle when each parent tries to put their child "just above" the others in conversation. It's many times about the parents' egos, not the kid. I like to take my class out to climb trees and will say, "Today, we find out who is gifted in tree climbing," or, have them play drums, "Today, we find out who is gifted in rhythm and who should be taking percussion classes."
My one piece of advice is to really think long term about a 4 year-old boy in K down the road with emotionally and physical development. There is nothing wrong with waiting a year until he's 5. My bday is in Sept. I could read and do all that when I was turning 5, but I was immature and active. My mom waited until I was turning 6 in Sept. to start K. Glad she did. I was still the least mature kid in the room, but a year prior? I would have been in real trouble in high school. Instead I was just sort of in trouble.
1) All children mature at different rates, so I'm not sure it's true to say that a student that starts school earlier will be definitively behind his/her peers at various milestones. There has been a significant amount of research on various forms of acceleration, including early entrance to kindergarten, and for some students/families it does make sense. I don't know your exact situation, but to suggest that all should be turned away is a disservice to those that are indeed ready. There is a process that should be followed for parents who want to go that route.
2) In Ohio, IQ tests are used not only to identify students who are potentially gifted but also students who have special needs. It still has a wide range of uses as an objective measure of identification.
3) "Giftedness" has a very specific meaning in education. I understand for the sake of equity that the term is a bit loaded and people like to co-opt it for other uses, but I'm not sure I'd be telling students that they're "gifted" in tree-climbing. And while there is an area of identification for performing arts, it's a little more involved than having a student play drums once and having an untrained individual make such a determination.
Anyone have experience of sending their kids there? It is a private school for gifted kids, grades K through 8. DD and son-in-law are applying to send oldest grandson there for Kindergarten this fall, pending an IQ test. He's 4, reads at second grade level, is doing third grade math, and is really obsessed with math and science (namely space). Menlo has an early enrollment program. His mom and dad persistently tried to enroll him this fall at their own school district, to no avail. The process was like pulling teeth. They were happy to learn that early Kindergarten enrollment at Menlo is common. He will be turning 5 this fall, so it's not that early.
Menlo Park is a charter school for gifted students. I've heard decent things about it, but I don't have any personal experience with the school. In Ohio, from one district to the next gifted programs can vary dramatically. With a school like Menlo Park, you know that the emphasis is on gifted education.
The Ohio Department of Education allows for schools/districts to pick from one of two kindergarten enrollment cutoff dates: August 1st or September 30th. If he's 5 by September 30th and that's your district's cutoff date, they must admit him. If not, you're still looking at an early entrance request, which may involve an evaluation but ultimately will be completely up to the district.
We have toured MPA and have, for the moment, chosen not to send our children there for reasons including the following:
- the new building looks amazing but the open classroom plan seems very chaotic and noisy, which would not suit our children well
- the administration was not responsive to our questions and seemed disorganized, and if they can't even respond to prospective families, what will it be like when we actually have a problem?
- some parents of current students that I spoke to felt that the school is more focused on expanding enrollment than on serving the current students well, and that there is a lot of turnover in teachers and administrators
- if you read the past board minutes that are online, their teacher salaries are much lower than surrounding public school districts, which begs the question why a teacher would choose to teach there
- I spoke with a few of the teachers and was not especially impressed with their knowledge of curriculum compared to other public schools district teachers in the area
- we're not interested in living near the school and would like our children to be part of the local community
The laws regarding gifted education for Ohio are such that many public school districts have excellent services for gifted children, and also have the benefit of a well-established district administration, predictable funding and enrollment, as well as a host of other activities (art, music, clubs, athletics) that a small charter school cannot support (at least not without a lot of parental involvement). (MPA does have art and music, but not nearly as robust as the average NEO public school.) Unlike other responders, I do not question the need for accommodation for children with high IQs, and I think it is great that MPA is an option in the area. However, I would highly recommend investigating other public school districts first. Many on both the east and west side have excellent gifted programs and district gifted coordinators. Off the top of my head, I would check out Lakewood and Rocky River on the west side and Beachwood and Orange on the east side. There are others but they are escaping me at the moment. Please note that a highly rated school district may not be the best option and a lot really depends on the child's abilities and personality.
Since MPA is a relatively small school, you likely will have to sit in the lobby or out front at pick-up time and talk to other parents to get a real feel for it; I was not able to find much information about it online. In speaking with parents, I found that parents of younger students seemed to think it was amazing, while parents of older students have real concerns about the direction of the school. The style of instruction is quite different and not for every student as well, and it might be hard to know for a really young child what will suit them best. Either way, it is good to have a Plan B and C for these types of kids, as it can be challenging for them, especially in the elementary years. Best of luck!
Last I checked, Ohio's laws require that children be identified as gifted but do not need to be served. There, usually all second graders are given screening tests and its up to individual districts to determine how they will meet the needs of gifted students, if at all. Bigger districts will have more resources for gifted education.
I have 2 identified children and am pleased with what our public schools have provided for them. If I wanted a truly elite gifted program I may choose a private school that focused on individualized instruction like Laurel or even a larger public school system like Beachwood or Solon.
Public schools differentiate to meet the needs of all kids. If they do that well, the needs of all kids are met. It's not all day, but it works and keeps all kids together, hopefully by neighborhoods so after school, they know where to bike and knock on doors to play.
We have toured MPA and have, for the moment, chosen not to send our children there for reasons including the following:
- the new building looks amazing but the open classroom plan seems very chaotic and noisy, which would not suit our children well
- the administration was not responsive to our questions and seemed disorganized, and if they can't even respond to prospective families, what will it be like when we actually have a problem?
- some parents of current students that I spoke to felt that the school is more focused on expanding enrollment than on serving the current students well, and that there is a lot of turnover in teachers and administrators
- if you read the past board minutes that are online, their teacher salaries are much lower than surrounding public school districts, which begs the question why a teacher would choose to teach there
- I spoke with a few of the teachers and was not especially impressed with their knowledge of curriculum compared to other public schools district teachers in the area
- we're not interested in living near the school and would like our children to be part of the local community
The laws regarding gifted education for Ohio are such that many public school districts have excellent services for gifted children, and also have the benefit of a well-established district administration, predictable funding and enrollment, as well as a host of other activities (art, music, clubs, athletics) that a small charter school cannot support (at least not without a lot of parental involvement). (MPA does have art and music, but not nearly as robust as the average NEO public school.) Unlike other responders, I do not question the need for accommodation for children with high IQs, and I think it is great that MPA is an option in the area. However, I would highly recommend investigating other public school districts first. Many on both the east and west side have excellent gifted programs and district gifted coordinators. Off the top of my head, I would check out Lakewood and Rocky River on the west side and Beachwood and Orange on the east side. There are others but they are escaping me at the moment. Please note that a highly rated school district may not be the best option and a lot really depends on the child's abilities and personality.
Since MPA is a relatively small school, you likely will have to sit in the lobby or out front at pick-up time and talk to other parents to get a real feel for it; I was not able to find much information about it online. In speaking with parents, I found that parents of younger students seemed to think it was amazing, while parents of older students have real concerns about the direction of the school. The style of instruction is quite different and not for every student as well, and it might be hard to know for a really young child what will suit them best. Either way, it is good to have a Plan B and C for these types of kids, as it can be challenging for them, especially in the elementary years. Best of luck!
This was an informative post. I would add that on the eastside Shaker Heights and Cleveland Heights are also known for having very strong gifted programs. On the westside Berea's gifted program is solid as well. There may be even more but these are the ones I know well for having superb, comprehensive services for GT students.
Your last paragraph hits on an important point. While many districts have good gifted programs, most lack services in the primary years (K-3) so this is where a school like Menlo Park may fill a void for some.
Last I checked, Ohio's laws require that children be identified as gifted but do not need to be served. There, usually all second graders are given screening tests and its up to individual districts to determine how they will meet the needs of gifted students, if at all.
In Ohio, districts are now required to do two sets of whole grade testing: One in the K-3rd grade band and one in the 4th-6th grade band. Some obviously choose to do more frequent whole grade testing. You are correct that districts are not required to offer any services.
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