Cleveland Pictures (neighborhoods, new construction, professionals)

[MABCle]

^Correction I meant number 7. Also the Cleveland cma is larger than Pittsburgh so proportionally they are about the same.

[Subway]

Originally Posted by MABCle

According to this http://money.cnn.com/2006/10/30/real...ties/index.htm cleveland is not number three. I never said Cleveland was safer than Pittsburgh.

Without getting too specific Pittsburgh is shrinking faster than the Cleveland-Akron Consolidated metropolitan area.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consoli...atistical_Area

I'm very curious as to why the CNN link you posted has a different set of rankings than the company that actually did the rankings, especially given that the company was mentioned in the CNN article. Here is a link with the correct set of rankings, which shows that Cleveland is the 7th most dangerous of the 371 cities included in the report (I know for a fact that this link contains the correct rankings because I actually purchased the full report from the company when it first became available): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan_...rous.29_Cities.

Regarding the metro populations, the stats I posted were for the metropolitan statistical areas (MSA's), not the combined statistical areas (CSA's). You are correct that the Pittsburgh-New Castle CSA is smaller than and is shrinking faster than the Cleveland-Akron-Elyria CSA. However, the Pittsburgh MSA is larger than the Cleveland MSA and is shrinking more slowly than the Cleveland MSA if you base it on net migration and exclude natural changes in population. Of course, we're really just splitting hairs by discussing which is losing population faster. It is so rare for large metro areas to be losing population that both Cleveland and Pittsburgh should be ashamed that they are. I believe that the Buffalo, Pittsburgh and Cleveland metro areas (MSA and CSA) are the only ones in the country with populations of one million plus that are actually losing population. Even the Detroit metro area is gaining population! The Cleveland MSA has been losing since 1997 and the Cleveland-Akron-Elyria CSA has been slowly losing since at least 2000.

[MABCle]

I'm not sure either why the numbers don't match. I know sometimes they do 2rankings one based on cities over 500k and the other on rankings under 500k. In my opinion I think the Cleveland-Akron msa should always be the real population meter of the Cleveland metro area. This is one of the more highly contested metro-csa disputes as Akron is very much in Cleveland's DMA and we all know the new growth occuring around Akron particularly to the north is not all due to the sprawl of Akron. Additionally many Akron residents travel to Cleveland and vicinity to work. There is a large synergy between these cities, enough to combine them into one metro. There was an article about combining them in 2008. I'll try to find it.

[Subway]

Originally Posted by MABCle

I'm not sure either why the numbers don't match. I know sometimes they do 2rankings one based on cities over 500k and the other on rankings under 500k. In my opinion I think the Cleveland-Akron msa should always be the real population meter of the Cleveland metro area.

Population levels wouldn't be the explanation for why the rankings posted on the CNN site are wrong since the safest and most dangerous 25 lists posted on both sites contain both large and small cities. If you go on the site of the company that did the report, it not only has the same overall safest and most dangerous 25 lists as the wiki link that I posted, but also has safest and most dangerous 10 lists for various population levels. Cleveland is #7 on the overall most dangerous 25 (St. Louis and Detroit are the only two major cities ranking worse) and is #4 on the most dangerous 10 for cities with a population of 100,000 to 499,999.

I agree that the Cleveland-Akron CSA should be the real population meter of the Cleveland metro area. However, as I stated above, even that has seen an overall decline recently. There was an extremely slow decrease from 2,945,831 in 2000 to 2,944,075 in 2003. However, the decrease then accelerated as the population was down to 2,931,774 in 2005. http://www.census.gov/population/www...bsa-06-fmt.xls

[MABCle]

Where is the link to the crime statistics?
My original comments reflected that Cleveland's crime is bad, but not the worst and Pittsburgh was the fastest shrinking csa in the country. The links prove Cleveland is not the worst and Pittsburgh is in fact shrinking the fastest.

[Subway]

Originally Posted by MABCle

Where is the link to the crime statistics?
My original comments reflected that Cleveland's crime is bad, but not the worst and Pittsburgh was the fastest shrinking csa in the country. The links prove Cleveland is not the worst and Pittsburgh is in fact shrinking the fastest.

Here is the crime stats link, which was listed as an external link at the bottom of the Wikipedia article that I previously linked: http://www.morganquitno.com/cit07pop.htm#25.

As for your original comment about Cleveland's crime rate, you said, "Lastly Cleveland's crime rate is bad, but definitely not the worst in the country." By using the word 'definitely,' the implication was that it was nowhere near being the worst (that's the way I took it, at any rate, and I suspect that many others would too). I only wanted to point out that while it's not the worst, it's pretty darn close to being the worst (7th worst of 371 cities and 3rd worst of major cities). BTW, 'wheelingman' didn't say that Cleveland has the worst crime rate in the country, so your response to him on that point really didn't make sense. He said, "Cleveland's crime rate is out of control," which, IMO, is a fair statement given its current ranking.

As for the population, I never said you were wrong about Pittsburgh shrinking the fastest. I just pointed out that the Cleveland metro is also shrinking, which is extremely rare for large metro areas. I also pointed out that when you exclude natural changes in population (births and deaths), the Cleveland MSA is shrinking faster than the Pittsburgh MSA; IOW, Cleveland's net migration is more negative than Pittsburgh's. The reason I brought that up is that net migration is the component of population change that is a better indicator of an area's desirability than overall population change. As for the 2000-2005 MSA numbers that I previously posted, Cleveland's net decrease due to migration of 51,672 represents 2.4% its 2000 census population and Pittsburgh's net decrease due to migration of 25,799 represents 1.1% of its 2000 census population. In order to get the corresponding CSA numbers, that's all we have to do is add the Akron MSA numbers to the Cleveland MSA numbers and the New Castle MSA numbers to the Pittsburgh MSA numbers. I just did that and here are the stats:

The Cleveland-Akron CSA had a net decrese due to migration of 55,199, representing 1.9% of its 2000 census population.

The Pittsburgh-New Castle CSA had a net decrease due to migration of 26,552, representing 1.1% of its 2000 census population.

http://www.census.gov/population/www...bsa-02-fmt.xls

http://www.census.gov/population/www...bsa-06-fmt.xls

P.S. According to the last link, you technically were wrong about Pittsburgh being the fastest shrinking CSA in the country...whereas the Pittsburgh CSA lost 1.85% [(2,525,730-2,478,883)/2,525,730] of its population from 2000 to 2005, the Buffalo CSA lost 1.90% [(1,254,066-1,230,213)/1,254,066] over the same time period...close call though.

[Subway]

Originally Posted by Subway

The Cleveland-Akron CSA had a net decrese due to migration of 55,199, representing 1.9% of its 2000 census population.

The Pittsburgh-New Castle CSA had a net decrease due to migration of 26,552, representing 1.1% of its 2000 census population.

http://www.census.gov/population/www...bsa-02-fmt.xls

http://www.census.gov/population/www...bsa-06-fmt.xls

Minor correction: I forgot to include the net migration figure for the Ashtabula MSA, which is also part of the Cleveland-Akron CSA. It really doesn't make any difference...the net population decrease due to migration for the CSA increases to 55,214, which is still 1.9% of its 2000 census population.

[MABCle]

I think I may have found out why there is a disparity- your stats are older. According to your link about population Cleve-Akr only lost around 13500 between 2000 and 2005 making the loss -.47 not -1.9. Where are you getting 55,000 from?

[Subway]

Originally Posted by MABCle

I think I may have found out why there is a disparity- your stats are older. According to your link about population Cleve-Akr only lost around 13500 between 2000 and 2005 making the loss -.47 not -1.9. Where are you getting 55,000 from?

The -55,214 and -1.9% figures for the Cle-Akr CSA are the population change from 2000-2005 excluding natural causes (births/deaths). IOW, it is the change from net migration, which is the component of population change that is generally considered to be a better indicator of an area's desirability than overall population change. Even though the Pit-NC CSA is losing population faster than the Cle-Akr CSA overall, the Cle-Akr CSA is losing population to other areas nearly twice as fast as the Pit-NC CSA (which only lost 26,552 - 1.1% - due to net migration). Thus, the only reason that Pit-NC is losing population faster than Cle-Akr is that Pit-NC has negative natural growth (more deaths than births) whereas Cle-Akr has positive natural growth (more births than deaths). The -55,214 figure for the Cle-Akr CSA is the sum of the figures in Column J of the following link for Akron, Cleveland and Ashtabula: http://www.census.gov/population/www...bsa-02-fmt.xls.

I'm wondering if you missed my 2nd last post, the one to which I posted the minor correction? In that post, I gave the crime stats link that you requested and went into detail about the net population decreases due to migration for the CSA's. I'm figuring that you may have missed it and only saw my most recent post (the one with the minor correction). Or, if you did read my 2nd last post, then I may not have been clear enough that the stats I included near the end of it for Cle-Akr and Pit-NC were the net decreases due to migration, not the overall net decreases. In either case, I apologize for any confusion I may have caused.

[suncoastman]

Originally Posted by xbbxjrx

Nice... But...

Picture #1 : The Flats ... No one goes there anymore because the "thugs" took it over and now there is nothing..

Picture #4 : Edgewater ... No one goes there anymore because of the "thugs" and mexicans and not to mention the high level of toxic slime in Lake Erie.. As well as the couple standing there freezing there a$$es off..

xbbxjrx....You must really have a chip on your shoulder. Get your facts straight before you post something so ignorant.