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Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
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Quote:
Originally Posted by responsiblestranger
Piggybacking on my previous Qs to ask: any insight on Bedford, Bedford Heights, and Maple Heights? Asking because I don't see them mentioned a lot - but when I do, it's usually in a negative way. But I just glanced at homes in Bedford Heights and there doesn't seem to be crimes reported around the homes.
I lived in Maple Heights for nearly a year before moving back to the West Side just last month. We lived right on Libby Road across the street from the Southgate shopping center and never had any issues at our house. But there were a number of shootings elsewhere in town that I heard about on the news during my time there, and perhaps a carjacking or two. And waiting for buses at the Southgate Transit Center was an adventure at times -- I was never bothered except for a few panhandlers, but I witnessed things like people passing around bottles of vodka -- in the morning! -- and smoking weed in front of the building and playing loud music inside the building. And I was saddened over how much Southgate itself had declined compared to what I remember from several decades ago. It kind of felt like the 'hood had come to the suburbs. I didn't really hang out in the immediate area much during the day... I'd go to the west side (Lakewood) most of the time and then just come home in the evenings to eat, watch a little TV, and sleep.
Maple Heights is mostly 1950s Cape Cod-style bungalows, with a few areas of older housing here and there. Many of the streets still do look pretty, with lots of trees... but a closer look reveals that some houses are getting somewhat shabby in appearance, and if you look really closely you'll realize that some have been abandoned. The upside is that it's possible to pick up a house for $40K or even less... but don't expect much price appreciation anytime soon.
Bedford is similar, as far as I know, only with a quaint downtown area surrounded by areas of more historic homes. I'm not too familiar with Bedford Heights, but as far as I know it's a step above Bedford and Maple Heights.
That statement sums up our region and essentially captures all of the significant problems we face going forward. The broad implication of the trends I described is continued regional churn; an expensive proposition for an area with no population growth. Northeast Ohio has more housing units than it needs and more roadway capacity than it needs, but continued pressure for new developments in the fringe places I described in my previous response means a regional cost to build new units, demolish old units, build new roads and maintain existing roads. The overall development footprint of Northeast Ohio continues to lose efficiency because we have experienced gradual population decline coupled with outward development spread over the last 50 years. If we continue to experience the same dynamic in the future, the financial strain on every county in our region will continue to mount. Northeast Ohio simply cannot afford to perpetuate this pattern.
The problems people have long associated with Cleveland (white flight, disinvestment, abandonment, fiscal irresponsibility, failing schools) have already spread to suburban locations. While the revitalization of certain Cleveland neighborhoods provides hope, it is not citywide. Most of Cleveland's neighborhoods continue to struggle with decline. Furthermore, that decline is now palpable in numerous other communities. We divide our suburbs into "winners" and "losers" and people are very anxious to be in the former and avoid the latter. It used to be Cleveland versus everybody else, but now many suburbs share similar struggles with Cleveland. The "winner versus loser" outlook does not support regional cohesiveness, which we desperately need to collaborate for a vibrant future. We are all in this together, no matter where in the region you live and work.
The promises of a better future can be found in those communities committed to more proactive, comprehensive planning focused on land use and transportation with the goals of walkable, bikable, transit-oriented, mixed-use communities that are accessible to jobs. The market has responded to public demands for such communities as places to live, hence the skyrocketing housing values in Tremont, Ohio City, Gordon Square, Little Italy, etc. However, there also needs to be a stronger commitment from employers to place their businesses in such locations. This is happening in places like University Circle, Market Square/Ohio City, Van Aken District and Crocker Park (although the latter has very weak transit connections). We need more. Employers must realize the benefit of these locations so people have more options to live and access a wide range of jobs.
Have a good week.
Thank you. What does the process of annexation look like? And has it helped cities like Columbus (Indy?)? I assume it might exacerbate the tensions you speak of, but how else do we begin to concentrate and refocus the region?
Thank you. What does the process of annexation look like? And has it helped cities like Columbus (Indy?)? I assume it might exacerbate the tensions you speak of, but how else do we begin to concentrate and refocus the region?
Piggybacking on my previous Qs to ask: any insight on Bedford, Bedford Heights, and Maple Heights? Asking because I don't see them mentioned a lot - but when I do, it's usually in a negative way. But I just glanced at homes in Bedford Heights and there doesn't seem to be crimes reported around the homes.
RS, Maple Heights is serviced by the Maple Heights School District and Bedford and Bedford Heights (along with Oakwood and Walton Hills) are serviced by the Bedford School District. Both school districts became majority black in the 1990s. Since then, black student representation has increased to over 90% in Maple Heights and over 80% in Bedford as of the 2018 Fall Student Enrollment Count. School district enrollment is a reasonable (thought not perfect) proxy for community demographics.
The wealth gap between whites and blacks in the United States remains stubbornly high. According to a 2019 report from the Federal Reserve of Cleveland (https://www.clevelandfed.org/newsroo...ealth-gap.aspx), the average U.S. white household had $900,000 in assets and the average U.S. black household has $140,000 in assets in 2016. Translation: On average, white households are 6.5 times wealthier than black households.
Typically, Cleveland communities (both city neighborhoods and suburbs) become predominantly black because there is lack of overall (predominantly white) market demand in those areas. Lack of market demand may be based on perceptions about racial balance, desirability of housing stock, access (jobs, schools, shopping) and community services. The decline in rents/home values creates housing affordability in those areas for blacks. Unfortunately, this becomes a vicious cycle as the increasing concentration of blacks in a particular neighborhood or suburb has a negative impact on the valuation of property within that neighborhood or suburb. The perceptions held about communities with increasing concentrations of blacks manifest themselves when the much larger, wealthier white market increasingly avoids such communities, further suppressing property values. A detailed analysis of this undervaluation came from The Brookings Institute several months ago (https://www.brookings.edu/research/d...neighborhoods/).
Northeast Ohio includes several suburban school districts that are majority black. Some of these have been majority black since the 1970s (East Cleveland, Warrensville Heights). Others became majority black in the 1990s and have either become more concentrated with black students (Bedford, Euclid, Maple Heights) or less concentrated with black students (Cleveland Heights-University Heights, Shaker Heights (lost majority black status earlier this decade)). Still others were majority white in the 1990s but have now become majority black with a significant increase in the concentration of black students since 2000 (Garfield Heights, Richmond Heights, South Euclid-Lyndhurst). Finally, there are other districts that historically have had very few black students but have grown more significantly in black student representation (although not majority black) within the past five years (Ravenna, Wickliffe, Willoughby-Eastlake).
The shifts in racial concentration within public student enrollment (counted annually) provides some insight into the dynamic racial profiles of entire communities and, therefore, the shifting perceptions about such communities.
There's actually a little slice that feeds to Fernway Elementary, from Lee east to Riedham. Shaker School district Map
I agree with your assessment of the Fernway neighborhood. There seems to be an unwarranted price premium simply for being "on the right side of the tracks", more so than can be accounted for by just the housing stock and neighborhood amenities.
To OP, I would include Fernway in your search, but I think it's unlikely you'll wind up there. You'd likely max out your $200K budget AND be getting into a home with a major drawback in condition and/or or design.
Cross posting this here because I originally put it in the Lakeview suburbs thread but haven't gotten a response:
Read through the thread - lots of good information on Birdtown and downtown Lakewood. Does anyone have info on other neighborhoods of Lakewood? Didn't realize there were so many... These are the ones I found from City Data:
Beach Court, Berkshire, Birdtown, Captains Cove, Clifton Boulevard, Clifton Park, Clifton Prado, Detroit, Downtown Lakewood, Edgewater Towers, Elbur, Envoy, Gold Coast, Highland House, Hilliard Triangle, Lake Avenue, Lake House, Lakewood, Lakewood Heights, Lakewood Park, Madison, Madison Village, Rockport Square, Silver Coast, The Edge, Waterford, West End, Winton
If anyone can sum up a general "vibe", safety, and walkability... that would be awesome!
Two areas I really wanted to check out were Hilliard Triangle and Madison Village... both seemed to have more affordable homes and nice streets.
Thanks everyone for all your help. Got back from Cleveland a few days ago, so wanted to write a wrap up of everything I saw/did. Tried putting together all my photos on Imgur but it wasn't working, will try again later.
We took Spirit on an overnight flight and arrived early the next morning. Next time, we're definitely upgrading to the big seats so it's only two people per row. (On the way back, the guy next to us was eating hot food. DON'T bring hot, smelly food on an airplane! So rude!)
After we arrived, we picked up our rental car and drove to Bedford.My boyfriend D's family has lived there since the 50s (not sure if I've mentioned that before on here). His grandma still lives in the same house, and his aunt lives down the street in Maple Heights. We slept til 12pm and then went out to get lunch - and got rear ended. We were driving down Turney, a two road street with houses on either side. A guy pulled out of his driveway so we slowed down, then came to a stop because he waited to let someone else out in front of him, too. The guy behind us wasn't paying attention (also, it was raining), and hit us. I was surprised at how many homes are on busy streets! And how many roads have only one lane going each way. For the rest of the trip, we were nervous every time we were driving down a road like that and someone was pulling out of their driveway.
I had a big itinerary of things to do, but getting rear ended kinda ruined our plans. We had to call the police, wait, deal with the rental car insurance, our insurance...
SHAKER HEIGHTS
We drove around Lomond and Shaker Towne Center. The homes were nice but the area didn't seem super walkable... maybe because we were in south Shaker?
We went to Pinecrest because I wanted to check out Sweetie's Big Fun - I heard they had an old school photobooth (they did). I try to collect a photo strip everywhere I go. The owner was really nice but later I found the candy bar I'd bought expired in 03/12. We ate at First Watch: I got a BLT eggs benedict, he got biscuits and gravy with eggs, we split a belgian waffle.
EDGEWATER / LAKEWOOD
Went to Edgewater Park - beautiful!
Went to Lakewood Park - beautiful! Loved the swinging benches and gazebo.
Drove around Lakewood, I loved the neighborhoods on Madison.
Went to downtown Lakewood, really cool area. We stopped at GV Artwork a few times, then into Cleveland Vegan for cookies (chocolate chip tasted off, peanut butter was good) - it was packed every time we walked by.
We had dinner at Mad Mac's, a mac n cheese restaurant. I'd originally put it on our itinerary so we could do trivia, but it wound up being a bust because it was New Girl trivia and we'd never seen the show.
We stayed overnight a little south then headed to Brewella's for breakfast. It was smaller than I thought but a cute place. He got a french toast crepe, I got nutella and strawberry... we also got a ham and cheese to try but had to toss it because it wasn't good.
Is Lakewood known as the 'gay area'? That's what his aunt, whose lived in Cleveland/Ohio her whole life, said. But I think that may just be because she has gay friends who live in Lakewood.
CLEVELAND HEIGHTS
We went to City Church and checked out the downtown area briefly before driving around. The area was SO CUTE, and I wish we'd had more time to explore it.
I had read before coming that places on the east side (Cle Heights, Shaker) didn't have as much freeway access, and I really felt that while we were driving from Bedford to Cleveland Heights.
OLD BROOKLYN
We drove through Old Brooklyn because I'd read some articles on how it's an up and coming neighborhood and kind of being gentrified. Also, my boyfriend's dad grew up there and gave us the address of his old house. It was still there, which was cool, so we snapped a couple of pictures for him. Someone on here had commented that this area is a bit 'rougher' and I definitely felt that was true. The houses just weren't kept up - the paint was faded/chipping, the stairs and porches were rotting or broken, the lawns were unkempt.
DOWNTOWN
We went to the Rock & Roll HOF, Browns Pro Shop, Indians game, Public Square / Soldiers and Sailors Monument, Jack Casino, Terminal Tower... I'm blanking on the other stuff we did. We walked around a lot, between ducking into restaurants and shops for free AC.
The Indians game was really fun. We went on dollar hotdog night and had great seats right above home plate so we got a good view of the skyline. They also passed out Cleveland "C" sunglasses. Its been years since I've been to a game because it's such a hassle going to Dodgers games in LA.
I did NOT get to go to the Cleveland Museum of Art or the National History Museum! I was really bummed, but like I said... the car accident kind of created a landslide on our plans. We were supposed to go to the R&R HOF the day we arrived and go to a summer concert that night, but we were on the phone for a while and it backed up all our plans, including seeing his family.
We would've been able to do more downtown if we hadn't spent time in the suburbs, and a lot of time with his family - but I'm glad we did. We can always explore downtown more later. So much to do!
BEREA
We drove down to Berea even though we were a week early for training camp. My boyfriend just wanted to see the headquarters / fan signs. Took some pictures then headed on to Canton.
CANTON
We decided to spend our last night in Canton, so we drove down before dinner and just picked up pizza in Canton and ate in our hotel room (it was pouring). The next day we woke up and went to the Hall of Fame. It was AWESOME. Loved the history videos, and the interactive exhibits. My boyfriend's grandpa played for the Cleveland Bulldogs (formerly the Canton Bulldogs) for 4 years and there was some info on the Canton Bulldogs in the museum. Then headed from Canton to the airport.
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Overall, we had a great time! We liked Lakewood and Cleveland Heights, but my boyfriend far prefers Lakewood.
I definitely didn't pack/dress correctly. The forecast was for rain every day but when I talked to people on Reddit they said the weather's unpredictable and sometimes when they predict rain/thunder every day it winds up being perfect weather. I brought jeans and a few dresses - no shorts. Mistake! I didn't realize how much hotter everything feels when it's humid. And how STICKY you feel when it's humid. I had to rinse off in the afternoons and shower every night, I just felt so sweaty and gross.
Weather is my biggest concern in moving out of Southern California, since we have such mild weather. The humidity was... rough. But maybe if I had brought a light rain jacket (don't currently own one) and shorts, it would have been easier. Also, I got 8 blisters from shoes I've had for years because I'm assuming the humidity caused my feet to sweat and get rubbed raw? I'm covered in bandaids.
Last question: is Steak 'n Shake a big deal in Ohio?? I've been listening to my bf talk about it for YEARS. He compares every burger to it. It was our first meal in Ohio, and it was good... but I prefer Culver's (Wisconsin) or Freddy's (California).
Regarding Spirit: That's the flight I take from LAX (next week, actually). Yes, the big seats are nicer, but for half that money, get the exit row. 3 seats, but the leg room is about the same as the big seats. I sometimes take the big seats over (red eye) and then exit row back. The other seats? OMG! My legs would not straighten after 4 hrs. of being at a 90 deg. angle.
Loved reading your post. My cousin lives in CLE and says that LWood is the gay area, too. For me, where I am in SB (just up from LA), I don't care. Many of my friends who are gay are some of the best people I know. Lakewood is also on our list and I have been there many times! The big sign "Lakewood" on the walkway at the park as you walk down to the lake (big stone area on the point) was made by the company for which my aunt worked.
Melt Grill should be on your next visit- Tea Lab is also cool.
Get the Spirit Credit Card if you think you'll be going back a few more times. It's worth it to get the points. I pay about $125 per flight (rt) with seats and luggage using my points.
I'm lucky that my tenant is moving out of my condo (W6th and St Clair) next week- I get to stay downtown for the entire week. I'll see about 6 games ($15 District seats and I'll get one game closer to home plate, probably).
Humid..yep. Although, we've had more monsoon like weather here lately. It poured in Big Bear the other night, but was like 80+ degrees. I remember visiting my grandparents in 10th grade (Solon). I was in football and in good shape. I went out to jump rope to stay fit for summer ball. I walked in after only 5 min. totally soaked and asked my mom what was wrong. My pop-pop goes, "OH... that's humidity!" LOL
Thanks for the take on all the areas. You did a TON!
Regarding Spirit: That's the flight I take from LAX (next week, actually). Yes, the big seats are nicer, but for half that money, get the exit row. 3 seats, but the leg room is about the same as the big seats. I sometimes take the big seats over (red eye) and then exit row back. The other seats? OMG! My legs would not straighten after 4 hrs. of being at a 90 deg. angle.
So funny, on the way back, 3 of the exit row seats hadn't been sold so they said over the intercom: "If anyone would like an exit row at no extra cost, please come to the front." STAMPEDE.
I like the idea of 2 seats to a row (remember when ALL flights were 2 to a row??) because you never have to worry about sitting next to someone loud or smelly or eating something gross. But my cheapness will probably win and I won't end up booking the big seats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacherdad
Melt Grill should be on your next visit- Tea Lab is also cool.
Get the Spirit Credit Card if you think you'll be going back a few more times. It's worth it to get the points. I pay about $125 per flight (rt) with seats and luggage using my points.
I'm lucky that my tenant is moving out of my condo (W6th and St Clair) next week- I get to stay downtown for the entire week. I'll see about 6 games ($15 District seats and I'll get one game closer to home plate, probably).
Humid..yep. Although, we've had more monsoon like weather here lately. It poured in Big Bear the other night, but was like 80+ degrees. I remember visiting my grandparents in 10th grade (Solon). I was in football and in good shape. I went out to jump rope to stay fit for summer ball. I walked in after only 5 min. totally soaked and asked my mom what was wrong. My pop-pop goes, "OH... that's humidity!" LOL
Thanks for the take on all the areas. You did a TON!
Rob in Santa Barbara
We wanted to go to Melt! Saw it everywhere, but it was always bad timing. Like, we'd just eaten, or we had plans to eat with his family. Next time for sure!
Will need to look into the Spirit Credit Card... their flights are just so easy and the check in process was so smooth both times.
Lucky you! Enjoy your time there. Don't think I drove past that area of Lakewood but then I could be blanking... will need to look it up!
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Back from cleveland!
I'll see about 6 games ($15 District seats and I'll get one game closer to home plate, probably). 
