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Old 02-09-2020, 06:32 PM
 
4,097 posts, read 4,356,325 times
Reputation: 4207

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For the record, I'm not saying Brecksville is a bad place. Statistically speaking, it's a very good place. It has one of the highest per capita family income in the state. It sits adjacent to a fantastic natural area: one of the most visited national parklands in the nation. It has great schools, low crime, good retail, a cute old New England/Chardon-esqe town square (complete with a gazebo), rolling hills, strong housing stock, etc., etc...

... It's just not my cup of tea. And, for the record, I'm not a 'Cleveland or it stinks' kind of person; I largely grew up in a suburb. But it's undeniable that, despite the good freeway access of I-77, Brecksville is far off the Cleveland urban/suburban grid... It's 17 miles south of downtown (and that's a lot for a compact urban grid as Cleveland -- a compactness that is part of Cleveland's strength, urbanity and walkability imho)... It is also 8-10 miles south of Cleveland's outer-belt south (I-480). Yes, RTA's 77F bus line serves the area, and it has the luxury of traveling the inner portion of its route non-stop on a freeway (that is, when I-77 is not in stop 'n go, rush hour parking lot mode, which can be common, I understand -- and have experienced myself)... And it also bears noting that, the 77F line serves Brecksville, alone. Brecksville is not criss-crossed, or double-served by RTA transit -- buses and/or buses and the Rapid rail like more close-in (some call them inner ring) suburbs like Shaker or Cleveland Heights or Lakewood... And even some 2nd and 3rd ring burbs like Beachwood, Rocky River, North Olmsted, Berea and Pepper Pike are still pretty transit friendly ... either served themselves by Park 'n Ride freeway buses, or just a 10/15 minute (or less) drive to a large, free parking lot at or near the end of one of the Rapid lines.

Plus, all of these aforementioned suburbs just seem a hop-skip-and-a-jump drive from everywhere (15-20 minute car or Rapid ride), be it downtown, or shopping or the arts (at least on their East or West side of town) ... or the Lake. You can't say this about Brecksville... It's isolated... and many residents, esp the rich, like it that way.

And yes its lily white (93.7% at last count) and very conservative, politically (I'm both liberal and crave diversity, so that's a huge turnoff to me, personally)... note: Rocky River is this way, too, but RR just seems preferable to me, location-wise, character-wise (architecturally, I love much of their older housing), and, of course, you can't beat RR's lakeside setting, replete with their own small public beach area and boardwalk.

SHW's R&D location in Brecksville will most definitely contribute to Greater Cleveland's sprawl. Being served by one rather infrequent bus line -- one of, if not the, longest in the RTA system, where Brecksville is at its terminus, does not make for an easy commute for those without cars... Too much of greater Cleveland's development, even with many jobs and educational opportunities (see Tri-C's outer campuses) that may be attractive to such individuals, are all but inaccessible to them ... and therein lies sprawl, and that's unfortunate.
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Old 02-10-2020, 12:00 AM
 
Location: Shaker Heights, OH
4,760 posts, read 4,608,873 times
Reputation: 3751
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf View Post
For the record, I'm not saying Brecksville is a bad place. Statistically speaking, it's a very good place. It has one of the highest per capita family income in the state. It sits adjacent to a fantastic natural area: one of the most visited national parklands in the nation. It has great schools, low crime, good retail, a cute old New England/Chardon-esqe town square (complete with a gazebo), rolling hills, strong housing stock, etc., etc...

... It's just not my cup of tea. And, for the record, I'm not a 'Cleveland or it stinks' kind of person; I largely grew up in a suburb. But it's undeniable that, despite the good freeway access of I-77, Brecksville is far off the Cleveland urban/suburban grid... It's 17 miles south of downtown (and that's a lot for a compact urban grid as Cleveland -- a compactness that is part of Cleveland's strength, urbanity and walkability imho)... It is also 8-10 miles south of Cleveland's outer-belt south (I-480). Yes, RTA's 77F bus line serves the area, and it has the luxury of traveling the inner portion of its route non-stop on a freeway (that is, when I-77 is not in stop 'n go, rush hour parking lot mode, which can be common, I understand -- and have experienced myself)... And it also bears noting that, the 77F line serves Brecksville, alone. Brecksville is not criss-crossed, or double-served by RTA transit -- buses and/or buses and the Rapid rail like more close-in (some call them inner ring) suburbs like Shaker or Cleveland Heights or Lakewood... And even some 2nd and 3rd ring burbs like Beachwood, Rocky River, North Olmsted, Berea and Pepper Pike are still pretty transit friendly ... either served themselves by Park 'n Ride freeway buses, or just a 10/15 minute (or less) drive to a large, free parking lot at or near the end of one of the Rapid lines.

Plus, all of these aforementioned suburbs just seem a hop-skip-and-a-jump drive from everywhere (15-20 minute car or Rapid ride), be it downtown, or shopping or the arts (at least on their East or West side of town) ... or the Lake. You can't say this about Brecksville... It's isolated... and many residents, esp the rich, like it that way.

And yes its lily white (93.7% at last count) and very conservative, politically (I'm both liberal and crave diversity, so that's a huge turnoff to me, personally)... note: Rocky River is this way, too, but RR just seems preferable to me, location-wise, character-wise (architecturally, I love much of their older housing), and, of course, you can't beat RR's lakeside setting, replete with their own small public beach area and boardwalk.

SHW's R&D location in Brecksville will most definitely contribute to Greater Cleveland's sprawl. Being served by one rather infrequent bus line -- one of, if not the, longest in the RTA system, where Brecksville is at its terminus, does not make for an easy commute for those without cars... Too much of greater Cleveland's development, even with many jobs and educational opportunities (see Tri-C's outer campuses) that may be attractive to such individuals, are all but inaccessible to them ... and therein lies sprawl, and that's unfortunate.
Welcome to the USA...we all have cars...I live in Beachwood...a drive to Brecksville would be more convenient to someone like me than a drive to downtown where I'd most likely have to pay to park. I don't know where everyone gets this idea that "everybody" loves downtown...young people may like it but when they become older with families, they typically prefer the suburbs (anyone see any families living downtown?). R & D needed to be in an area where they can spread out...this works perfectly for that.
My only concern is how much corporate welfare is the City, and County and State taking from us taxpayers and giving to this private corporation? And how will us taxpayers by paid back by it?
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Old 02-10-2020, 09:53 AM
 
11,441 posts, read 8,903,467 times
Reputation: 7024
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohioaninsc View Post
I live in Beachwood

Why don't you change your profile to reflect your current residence? Doing so would result in much more credibility for your Cleveland posts and eliminate confusion. Even Dublin/Beachwood would be an improvement.
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Old 02-10-2020, 11:16 AM
 
4,097 posts, read 4,356,325 times
Reputation: 4207
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohioaninsc View Post
Welcome to the USA...we all have cars...I live in Beachwood...a drive to Brecksville would be more convenient to someone like me than a drive to downtown where I'd most likely have to pay to park. I don't know where everyone gets this idea that "everybody" loves downtown...young people may like it but when they become older with families, they typically prefer the suburbs (anyone see any families living downtown?). R & D needed to be in an area where they can spread out...this works perfectly for that.
My only concern is how much corporate welfare is the City, and County and State taking from us taxpayers and giving to this private corporation? And how will us taxpayers by paid back by it?
No, we don't all have cars and placing such an important facility in a more distant and isolated suburb like Brecksville obviously limits employment opportunities for those who don't. And if you'd read my post, I clearly pointed out that I was not ragging on SHW because they are planning on locating the R&D facility outside of downtown (although I would have preferred it either on Scranton Peninsula or on the undeveloped Bedrock property just south of Tower City). At least I wish the facility would be within Cleveland's urban/suburban grid -- that is, inside Cleveland's 'beltway' or, at most, just outside of it and accessible to quality public transit.
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Old 02-10-2020, 01:19 PM
 
6,533 posts, read 8,319,563 times
Reputation: 4602
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohioaninsc View Post
Welcome to the USA...we all have cars...I live in Beachwood...a drive to Brecksville would be more convenient to someone like me than a drive to downtown where I'd most likely have to pay to park. I don't know where everyone gets this idea that "everybody" loves downtown...young people may like it but when they become older with families, they typically prefer the suburbs (anyone see any families living downtown?).
Don't mistake my living in a suburb, owning cars, and working in a suburb as an endorsement of the suburban, car-centered lifestyle.

A better proxy would be housing costs. Urban walkable neighborhoods that are well-served by transit are expensive because the supply doesn't meet the demand, and those of us who can't/won't pay those prices wind up living in the suburbs whether that's our true preference or not.
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Old 02-10-2020, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
10,622 posts, read 11,009,588 times
Reputation: 9982
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf View Post
For the record, I'm not saying Brecksville is a bad place. Statistically speaking, it's a very good place. It has one of the highest per capita family income in the state. It sits adjacent to a fantastic natural area: one of the most visited national parklands in the nation. It has great schools, low crime, good retail, a cute old New England/Chardon-esqe town square (complete with a gazebo), rolling hills, strong housing stock, etc., etc...

... It's just not my cup of tea. And, for the record, I'm not a 'Cleveland or it stinks' kind of person; I largely grew up in a suburb. But it's undeniable that, despite the good freeway access of I-77, Brecksville is far off the Cleveland urban/suburban grid... It's 17 miles south of downtown (and that's a lot for a compact urban grid as Cleveland -- a compactness that is part of Cleveland's strength, urbanity and walkability imho)... It is also 8-10 miles south of Cleveland's outer-belt south (I-480). Yes, RTA's 77F bus line serves the area, and it has the luxury of traveling the inner portion of its route non-stop on a freeway (that is, when I-77 is not in stop 'n go, rush hour parking lot mode, which can be common, I understand -- and have experienced myself)... And it also bears noting that, the 77F line serves Brecksville, alone. Brecksville is not criss-crossed, or double-served by RTA transit -- buses and/or buses and the Rapid rail like more close-in (some call them inner ring) suburbs like Shaker or Cleveland Heights or Lakewood... And even some 2nd and 3rd ring burbs like Beachwood, Rocky River, North Olmsted, Berea and Pepper Pike are still pretty transit friendly ... either served themselves by Park 'n Ride freeway buses, or just a 10/15 minute (or less) drive to a large, free parking lot at or near the end of one of the Rapid lines.

Plus, all of these aforementioned suburbs just seem a hop-skip-and-a-jump drive from everywhere (15-20 minute car or Rapid ride), be it downtown, or shopping or the arts (at least on their East or West side of town) ... or the Lake. You can't say this about Brecksville... It's isolated... and many residents, esp the rich, like it that way.

And yes its lily white (93.7% at last count) and very conservative, politically (I'm both liberal and crave diversity, so that's a huge turnoff to me, personally)... note: Rocky River is this way, too, but RR just seems preferable to me, location-wise, character-wise (architecturally, I love much of their older housing), and, of course, you can't beat RR's lakeside setting, replete with their own small public beach area and boardwalk.

SHW's R&D location in Brecksville will most definitely contribute to Greater Cleveland's sprawl. Being served by one rather infrequent bus line -- one of, if not the, longest in the RTA system, where Brecksville is at its terminus, does not make for an easy commute for those without cars... Too much of greater Cleveland's development, even with many jobs and educational opportunities (see Tri-C's outer campuses) that may be attractive to such individuals, are all but inaccessible to them ... and therein lies sprawl, and that's unfortunate.



On the 77f, it does serve independence including the major intersection and job center of brecksville and rockside (even though it's a monstrosity of everything that's wrong with modern developments, it is still a commercial center). It also serves that area (not sure if it has a name per se) down where cozumel and spins bowling are. I have used the 77f to go to garfield in a pinch tbh. A friend of mine works in brecksville and lives downtown. I also do a reverse commute to garfield. It isnt hard with the bus routes there, I hope that sherwin locating there might increase such usage.



I guess homogeneity of any demographic in and of itself doesnt bother me. A lot of really different people fall under "white" according to the census. just searching very minimally, I see brecksville has a Russian orthodox church, a byzantine catholic church, a Roman catholic church, a Korean Presbyterian church, even LDS.though for the record, if everyone were the same race and religion, I wouldnt be opposed either.



I consider myself a conservative (though I dont think many liberals or other conservatives would consider me as such, a "Jane Jacob's conservative", if you will, maybe) and see value in a variety of different living set ups, except suburban to be quite honest. Thus brecksville is not ideal, though its town center is much better than 90% of the suburbs around here.



Sorry for the long post. Perhaps I felt compelled because I go to brecksville on the 77f to go to the metropark pretty frequently and always enjoy that access.
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Old 02-10-2020, 02:15 PM
 
Location: cleveland
2,365 posts, read 4,137,837 times
Reputation: 1634
https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/...ntown.html?m=1
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Old 02-10-2020, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
10,622 posts, read 11,009,588 times
Reputation: 9982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohioaninsc View Post
Welcome to the USA...we all have cars...I live in Beachwood...a drive to Brecksville would be more convenient to someone like me than a drive to downtown where I'd most likely have to pay to park. I don't know where everyone gets this idea that "everybody" loves downtown...young people may like it but when they become older with families, they typically prefer the suburbs (anyone see any families living downtown?). R & D needed to be in an area where they can spread out...this works perfectly for that.
My only concern is how much corporate welfare is the City, and County and State taking from us taxpayers and giving to this private corporation? And how will us taxpayers by paid back by it?
Agreed that R&D in the city only really makes sense when you dont think about it too much. The fact that the land doesnt exist for this in Cleveland is actually good, we arent so abandonded and forlorn anymore. I dont know if anyone has been to these facilities, but their current space is tiny and absolutely not sufficient any longer.



As for families living downtown, it might surprise you but yes, I do see families living downtown. I think playhouse square area has more than the warehouse district for example. I would probably prefer my family in a city neighborhood more than downtown, but downtown is not a bad place for families either. We need to break our conditioning of over scheduling kids lives to the point where only driving is feasible so we spend a ton of money on all that and them dont have time or money to actually spend quality time with children and give them a true sense of place and belonging. (Says a guy with no kids, to be completely fair, but the last 50 years of family habits are completely nuts by historical standards and are part of a really grand bit of social engineering when you think about it).
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Old 02-10-2020, 05:11 PM
 
4,359 posts, read 6,781,251 times
Reputation: 4866
The 77F will literally connect the front door of each facility. A car will be entirely optional in this regard. I'm not sure why people are wringing their hands over this. Lower Brecksville is a great location for something like this as it has far less expensive land available, is conveniently located along a major public transit line and also located along a direct Interstate connection. They decided on this because of the likely need for future expansion at the facility which is something much more easily accomplished at the south end of the county. They need to maximize their value per square foot, just like any business. R&D is overhead that takes up a ton of space. Unless the land is virtually free (it's not), it makes little sense to locate an R&D facility in an area where land value is in the area of millions of dollars per acre.
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Old 02-10-2020, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Cleveland
1,111 posts, read 785,339 times
Reputation: 1467
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1watertiger View Post
They should change the name of the nucleus project to something more apropos, like decaying isotope. Some nerd humor, sorry. All these other apartment buildings got the jump on nucleus. Lumen, Beacon, City Club - add in several of the other big renovations and nucleus is just a has been. I was more interested in the project when it had the larger tower, which I thought was kind of cool.

Still remains a big question just how sustained the downtown residential will be, and how much more can it realistically grow? It would be nice to see 30k residents by 2030, that would be nice sustained grown. Good momentum going now.
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