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Old 10-09-2020, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Cleveland and Columbus OH
11,041 posts, read 12,261,553 times
Reputation: 10360

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohioaninsc View Post
Higher Taxes = Far better services
Maybe in Shaker. Not everywhere. East Cleveland pays 3.25% property tax. Garfield is 3.93%. South Euclid 3.17%. Maple Heights 3.71%.

Meanwhile Lakewood comes in at 2.93%, Beachwood 2.17%, Chagrin Falls 2.6%.

I've always been amazed at how the streets in Beachwood never have snow on them. You can easily tell the border between University Heights (3.82%) and Beachwood in the winter.
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Old 10-09-2020, 09:22 PM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,238,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
Maybe in Shaker. Not everywhere. East Cleveland pays 3.25% property tax. Garfield is 3.93%. South Euclid 3.17%. Maple Heights 3.71%.

Meanwhile Lakewood comes in at 2.93%, Beachwood 2.17%, Chagrin Falls 2.6%.

I've always been amazed at how the streets in Beachwood never have snow on them. You can easily tell the border between University Heights (3.82%) and Beachwood in the winter.
The property tax base in East Cleveland, etc., pales against those in Beachwood, etc. If I had time to do the research, the key statistic is revenues per capita, which often does not correlate with tax rates. Perhaps that was your point.
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Old 10-10-2020, 09:54 AM
 
134 posts, read 120,916 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohioaninsc View Post
Higher Taxes = Far better services
Perhaps sometimes. More often it correlates with inefficiency and waste.
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Old 10-10-2020, 10:35 AM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,238,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ship4u View Post
Perhaps sometimes. More often it correlates with inefficiency and waste.
IMO great ignorance, reflecting an attitude of don't waste resources on poor and culturally deprived citizens. Ohio's Republicans have vastly reduced local government funding in order to fund massive tax cuts disproportinately benefiting the wealthy. Poor communities such as East Cleveland were hit especially hard.

Larger Ohio cities and more wealthy communities raised taxes, especially income taxes, to offset the state funding cuts. Of course, poor communities have much smaller real property and income tax bases available to generate replacement funding.

I don't dispute that poorer communities often become civically deprived of good leaders and also disengaged, collectively providing a fertile breeding grounds for mismanagement and certainly corruption.
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Old 10-10-2020, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Cleveland and Columbus OH
11,041 posts, read 12,261,553 times
Reputation: 10360
Really depends on the municipality. Trying to mask over internal deficiencies in leadership with raising taxes though is usually a bad sign. But there I think is a sweet spot of higher taxes for more benefits. Independence has very low taxes (for Cuyahoga county) but I don't see much appealing about living there. Honestly I think the tax rate for the city of Cleveland is about right.
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Old 10-10-2020, 11:31 AM
 
6,591 posts, read 8,888,222 times
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As a rule, higher property taxes means better services and/or lower property values.
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Old 10-10-2020, 05:09 PM
 
4,457 posts, read 4,988,231 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Not always. Look at Beachwood compared to most Greater Cleveland suburbs. What it does mean almost always is superior public schools and services, attributes to which many so-called "conservatives" pay only lip service. In my experience, many of these so-called "conservatives" do not have conservative values, especially regarding the environment.
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Old 10-12-2020, 06:14 AM
 
134 posts, read 120,916 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
IMO great ignorance, reflecting an attitude of don't waste resources on poor and culturally deprived citizens.
The tyranny of the self righteous.
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Old 10-12-2020, 09:51 AM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,238,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ship4u View Post
The tyranny of the self righteous.
And yet, Ohio greatly cut financial support for East Cleveland and other poor communities which didn't have the tax bases to replace those lost revenues. Do you deny this fact? Did you complain to the Republicans about this policy? If not, why not? Did you benefit significantly from the Republican tax cuts for the wealthy in Ohio, while feeling no guilt about the "losers" due to this significant reordering of economic priorities in Ohio?

See post 5 here:

https://www.city-data.com/forum/ohio...red-state.html

Do you feel all warm and fuzzy about policies that require poor communities to rely on donations from other sympathetic communities of used, costly to maintain emergency vehicles, as documented in the above post?

Do you even recognize the tyranny of the economic elites and self-entitled, especially given the great increase in housing and food insecurity in poor communities due to the mismanagement of the COVID-19 epidemic by Republicans??? Have you ever heard Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine lament the impact of the COVID-19 epidemic on communities such as East Cleveland, let alone introduce programs to deal with it? What he did do is propose a $150 million cut in Medicaid in lieu of closing Ohio tax loopholes in order to balance the Ohio budget.

The spirit of "noblesse oblige" has been replaced by the "greed is good" mantra among many economically privileged Americans IMO, and such a mindshift typically is justified by arguing that mismanagement and corruption are the source of the problem, and that providing additional resources for the economically and educationally deprived is just a waste of money. Such justifications are ignorant arguments becuase they misrepresent reality, but also because they are devoid of much knowledge of political economic history, both in the U.S. and in once very wealthy nations such as Argentina, and to the threat that deprivations imposed on a society's less wealthy threaten the long-term economic health and wealth-building capability of a society.

Here's something to ponder from the conservative-leaning Hoover Institution.

https://www.hoover.org/research/how-...ved-capitalism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoover_Institution

We won't increase Ohio's and the nation's wealth by creating pockets of despair inhabited by individuals lacking the skills, education and even health necessary to contribute meaningfully to our economy. And such communities are NOT only African American communities.

Last edited by WRnative; 10-12-2020 at 10:29 AM..
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Old 10-13-2020, 10:03 AM
 
134 posts, read 120,916 times
Reputation: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
And yet, Ohio greatly cut financial support for East Cleveland and other poor communities which didn't have the tax bases to replace those lost revenues. Do you deny this fact? Did you complain to the Republicans about this policy? If not, why not? Did you benefit significantly from the Republican tax cuts for the wealthy in Ohio, while feeling no guilt about the "losers" due to this significant reordering of economic priorities in Ohio?

See post 5 here:

https://www.city-data.com/forum/ohio...red-state.html

Do you feel all warm and fuzzy about policies that require poor communities to rely on donations from other sympathetic communities of used, costly to maintain emergency vehicles, as documented in the above post?

Do you even recognize the tyranny of the economic elites and self-entitled, especially given the great increase in housing and food insecurity in poor communities due to the mismanagement of the COVID-19 epidemic by Republicans??? Have you ever heard Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine lament the impact of the COVID-19 epidemic on communities such as East Cleveland, let alone introduce programs to deal with it? What he did do is propose a $150 million cut in Medicaid in lieu of closing Ohio tax loopholes in order to balance the Ohio budget.

The spirit of "noblesse oblige" has been replaced by the "greed is good" mantra among many economically privileged Americans IMO, and such a mindshift typically is justified by arguing that mismanagement and corruption are the source of the problem, and that providing additional resources for the economically and educationally deprived is just a waste of money. Such justifications are ignorant arguments becuase they misrepresent reality, but also because they are devoid of much knowledge of political economic history, both in the U.S. and in once very wealthy nations such as Argentina, and to the threat that deprivations imposed on a society's less wealthy threaten the long-term economic health and wealth-building capability of a society.

Here's something to ponder from the conservative-leaning Hoover Institution.

https://www.hoover.org/research/how-...ved-capitalism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoover_Institution

We won't increase Ohio's and the nation's wealth by creating pockets of despair inhabited by individuals lacking the skills, education and even health necessary to contribute meaningfully to our economy. And such communities are NOT only African American communities.
"intellectual flatulence", as the French poet, Paul Valery, said, gives relief to the man doing the venting, but polutes the intellectual air for others.
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