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Old 07-01-2020, 09:32 AM
 
3,640 posts, read 3,547,060 times
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Geiger's destruction was most unfortunate to this longstanding family business. I hope they can recover and reopen. Downtown badly needs them.
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Old 07-01-2020, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
1,567 posts, read 875,703 times
Reputation: 962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector View Post
Oh, my friend, you are so, so incorrect about this statement. White people are profiled every single day.



The cops involve all deserve every bit of the punishment coming to him. But, please, for the love of God, stop pretending like Mr. Floyd was a saint and that the sole reason for him being detained was because he was black. The man had a rap sheet a mile long and was being detained during the commission of a crime during which he resisted arrest.


As much respect as I have for MLK, Jr., this was one of the most brow-raising and, unfortunately for him, decontextualized statements he has ever made. It is being used as a mantra to pillage and plunder rather than as guidance to right a wrong. All rioting ever does is galvanize the empathetic and in the wrong direction. Violence is never, ever the answer.



Albeit not impossible, there is zero proof that "white supremacists" were among the vandals and/or looters in downtown. There is significant proof that the vandalism and looting was organized. Unfortunately, in this day and age of social media, that's all too easy to do. Organized and highly agitated protests not only invite but encourage this type of crime. It may not have been intentional, but the protesters do bear some of the responsibility.
First of all, we're not friends. White people are never profiled like black people are. When a white person commits a crime, they're looked at as individuals. When a black person commits a crime, they're looked at as an entire race. Tell me how are white people are profiled I'll wait.

Nobody was trying to make Floyd out to be a saint plus his criminal past didn't have anything to do with his death. The previous crimes you're referring to he was charged, punished and served his time for them. He didn't escape unscathed for those crimes. Also, you have no proof that Floyd resisted arrest plus they didn't know where he had gotten the fake money from. Money exchanges very quickly in the world. He should've been given due process not death that's what a lot of people were trying to say.

Dr. King was not wrong about the quote because it still rings true today. People have tried forever to peaceful and a lot of people ignored it. So, folks become so angry and frustrated that they feel the only they can be heard through extreme means. This country was built on violence and civil disobedience. The Dr. King that everyone has been taught for years wasn't the same Dr. King in the last few years of his life.

And, there was video footage of white supremacists partaking in vandalism and looting Downtown. They were doing because they knew that most of the media and society in general was going to think that it was black people or Black Lives Matter. Not saying that black people didn't participate in it, but the point is that people that did those acts weren't all black like the media portrays it. So, the peaceful protesters started recording them to exposure them and their misdeeds.
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Old 07-01-2020, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
1,567 posts, read 875,703 times
Reputation: 962
Quote:
Originally Posted by McGee107 View Post
And you don’t know the odds of a cop being killed by a black male. Also, the pattern I saw in another city was BLM and ANTIFA organizing and fomenting the violence then setting up the central city looting for black folks which carried into their neighborhoods the next few days. Cleveland wasn’t swarmed by 10,000s+ people out and about in high end shopping districts.

So white supremacists rioted because they’re the voice of the unheard? It all looked like opportunists stealing sneakers and high end stuff in places like Soho so this whole MLK quote about voices of the unheard need to stay in the ‘60s where it belongs.

Had a Cleveland trip cancelled but this summer is going to be tough everywhere. Shame about downtown Cleveland. Just read that the Brooks Brothers downtown location is closing for good but am wondering about the Geigers on Euclid Avenue. I bought some nice sneaks there a few years ago. I’m sure it was looted by the voices of the unheard though.

Such a shame that a city like Cleveland had local retailers establish a downtown location only to have them trashed. This being the reason many businesses pulled out of places like Cleveland in the first place; prophecy fulfilled in the end.
That is very dismissive. We can't leave that Dr. King quote in the '60s because people still aren't being heard and there are issues still going on. It's easy for people like you to say that because you've always been the heard.

White supremacists participated in the looting because they know that the media and the public wouldn't think twice about looking at them. They'll know that the media and public will look at the black community or BLM. They do it so they can justify their racism. But, now they have been exposed for some the looting and rioting they've done.
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Old 07-01-2020, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
3,903 posts, read 6,268,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QCongress83216 View Post
Also, you have no proof that Floyd resisted arrest plus they didn't know where he had gotten the fake money from. Money exchanges very quickly in the world. He should've been given due process not death that's what a lot of people were trying to say.
I find myself wondering whether Floyd even knew that money was counterfeit. I haven't heard that addressed anywhere. I wonder about it because it happened to me once. Many years ago, at a McDonald's in Chicago, I gave the cashier a $10 bill to pay for my food, and, to my surprise, she told me it was fake. To this day I can still hear the middle-aged African-American cashier saying, "They got you, baby." Nobody called the police; she simply handed the $10 bill back to me and I had to pay with something else. I had no idea it was fake... I had received it as part of change back from a $20 sometime earlier at Walgreens.
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Old 07-01-2020, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
3,903 posts, read 6,268,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QCongress83216 View Post
And, there was video footage of white supremacists partaking in vandalism and looting Downtown.
How do you know they were white supremacists and not just, say, white anarchists? Or mere hooligans?
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Old 07-01-2020, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
9,829 posts, read 9,119,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew61 View Post
How do you know they were white supremacists and not just, say, white anarchists? Or mere hooligans?
This white supremacist thing is absolute nonsense, no offense to anyone. But it is clearly just made up.
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Old 07-01-2020, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
1,567 posts, read 875,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
This white supremacist thing is absolute nonsense, no offense to anyone. But it is clearly just made up.
How do you know it's made up? There are white supremacists out here that want a race war. Also, they have committed looting and rioting in the past because they know you wouldn't look at them or suspect them of doing those acts because they media has you focused on BLM or ANTIFA. In Minnesota, many thought it was black people doing most of the rioting and looting, and it turned out it was other races and one of them was a police officer. I saw footage on Twitter where there were those type of people doing those acts in Downtown Cleveland.
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Old 07-01-2020, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
1,567 posts, read 875,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew61 View Post
How do you know they were white supremacists and not just, say, white anarchists? Or mere hooligans?
Because I saw footage of some them partaking in the looting and rioting.
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
9,829 posts, read 9,119,131 times
Reputation: 8830
Quote:
Originally Posted by QCongress83216 View Post
Because I saw footage of some them partaking in the looting and rioting.
Yousaw white people? So they're white supremacists? isn't that an example of the profiling you asked about earlier? Dude come on you're smarter than this. I actually didn't see any white people looting at least heinens and geigers. Unless the white supremacists are black now too. Not trying to be a dick, but there is absolutely nothing even close to "proof" that "white supremacists " are behind riots and looting (does that make them the voice of the oppressed then?) Just a few too many mental knots here. But I'll stop commenting on this because it isn't really related
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Old 07-01-2020, 05:24 PM
 
4,359 posts, read 6,262,522 times
Reputation: 4866
Quote:
Originally Posted by QCongress83216 View Post
First of all, we're not friends. White people are never profiled like black people are. When a white person commits a crime, they're looked at as individuals. When a black person commits a crime, they're looked at as an entire race. Tell me how are white people are profiled I'll wait.
Ok, fine. We're not friends - not a great foot to get off on, but ok. When anyone commits a crime - whether white, black, brown, etc. - they are booked as individuals, not as a race. Whether the frequency of the occurrence is equivalent or not, white people are indeed profiled. Much of it has to do with their outward appearance and how they carry themselves. Ask any white guy in a heavy metal band whoever dressed or looked the part.

Quote:
Nobody was trying to make Floyd out to be a saint plus his criminal past didn't have anything to do with his death. The previous crimes you're referring to he was charged, punished and served his time for them. He didn't escape unscathed for those crimes. Also, you have no proof that Floyd resisted arrest plus they didn't know where he had gotten the fake money from. Money exchanges very quickly in the world. He should've been given due process not death that's what a lot of people were trying to say.
Ask any convict - white, black or otherwise - whether their criminal history matters when confronted by law enforcement, bank examiners, prospective employers, etc. A criminal record will always raise the level of suspicion. It has nothing to do with race and it follows you everywhere.

Sure they were and still are. I was listening to NPR during the time this happened. The transcripts are available, if you care to read them. He was referred to as a martyr, hero and all around great guy. They had a funeral procession with his gold casket riding along in a white (ironic), horse drawn carriage.

Of course he should have been given due process. Only an idiot would argue that point. The policemen were terribly wrong and criminal in their overreaction. The main perpetrator will go to jail for murder or manslaughter, just as he should. The other 3 officers will also receive harsh penalties for being complicit, just as they should. However, the video footage does show him struggling with the police.

Quote:
Dr. King was not wrong about the quote because it still rings true today. People have tried forever to peaceful and a lot of people ignored it. So, folks become so angry and frustrated that they feel the only they can be heard through extreme means. This country was built on violence and civil disobedience. The Dr. King that everyone has been taught for years wasn't the same Dr. King in the last few years of his life.
The problem is, for as much as a riot might do to gain inches, it loses miles in the other direction. People who have the means - black or white - to avoid the mess in the future will do just that, those who do not will live in the squalid aftermath. Nothing changes. One solid paragraph of cogent, lucid, civil discourse strikes a blow far more solidly than a brick thrown by a rioter. MLK knew that which is why the statement really doesn't follow.

The Civil War was a riot of sorts. As with most wars, it was 'won' not by ideology but with superior industrial might and firepower. The issues leading up to the war probably could have been resolved by means other than violence. The violence still lingers to this day, the issues are obviously far from resolved. The only things that have somewhat healed the wounds have all occurred peacefully. Any mass rioting between then and now has solved nothing and has also created a much larger rift.


Quote:
And, there was video footage of white supremacists partaking in vandalism and looting Downtown. They were doing because they knew that most of the media and society in general was going to think that it was black people or Black Lives Matter. Not saying that black people didn't participate in it, but the point is that people that did those acts weren't all black like the media portrays it. So, the peaceful protesters started recording them to exposure them and their misdeeds.
The media is most certainly not portraying the violence as "black only." Far from it. There are video clips of some white people looting. Because they are white, does that mean they are white supremacists? There are also plenty of video clips showing black people doing the same thing. What does that make them?

Last edited by Cleveland_Collector; 07-01-2020 at 05:42 PM..
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