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Old 07-01-2020, 05:41 PM
 
4,359 posts, read 6,277,593 times
Reputation: 4866

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf View Post
Yes I can say this. BB was protected inside Tower City and suffered no physical damage, itself. TC's main doors to the Portico were smashed, but TC was heavily barricaded and guarded before the protests even started that Saturday and the whole building closed once the protests started getting out of hand and the main Rapid station was also closed... Red Line trains passed through but didn't stop there... Covid more likey may have had some impact, but it's been clear for some time that the TC Brooks Bros, as much as I liked it and, esp, what it did for TC's overall sagging retail image, has been struggling for some time...
Capital losses don't just happen when someone smashes a window and runs away with a suit. Put it this way, for the next year, which Brooks Brothers are people the least likely to shop at? I'd say the one in the middle of the riot zone.


Quote:
And btw, nobody was saying Geo Floyd was a saint, but that is irrelevant and smacks of a 'blame the victim' mentality.. There's no excuse for this cop murder whatsoever.. And, no, MLK's statement was neither unfortunate nor misguided. You apparently can't relate to oppression.
You apparently can't grasp the relationship between past history and future tendency. Yes, the man was/is essentially exalted by some. The word "martyr" has even been used on several occasions. He did not deserve to die - a point I cannot stress enough. He also doesn't deserve near the reverence.



MLK's statement was meant to evoke emotion and project sympathy, but it is not what he condoned. Therefore, why even suggest that you might encourage it? The very reason he used dialog to further his cause is because he knew that the only thing violence begets is more violence.
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Old 07-01-2020, 06:34 PM
 
3,640 posts, read 3,563,397 times
Reputation: 3478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector View Post

You apparently can't grasp the relationship between past history and future tendency. Yes, the man was/is essentially exalted by some. The word "martyr" has even been used on several occasions. He did not deserve to die - a point I cannot stress enough. He also doesn't deserve near the reverence.
Nowhere have I seen George Floyd 'exalted' by anyone, and I'm a heavy consumer of left-of-center media. That's a false narrative designed to obfuscate the issue. What you can't seem to understand is that life itself is, or should be, exalted, but too often the lives of African Americans are not. Your comments remind me of when Rodney King was beaten to within an inch of his life, cop defenders focused on the fact King was speeding prior to being pulled over -- the effect of which psychologically absolves or, at least, lessens the guilt and burden on the perpetrators.

Last edited by TheProf; 07-01-2020 at 06:46 PM..
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Old 07-01-2020, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
3,906 posts, read 6,281,081 times
Reputation: 2857
Quote:
Originally Posted by QCongress83216 View Post
Because I saw footage of some them partaking in the looting and rioting.
But how did you identify them as white supremacists? Were they waving swastika flags around? </sarcasm>
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Old 07-01-2020, 10:37 PM
 
4,359 posts, read 6,277,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf View Post
Nowhere have I seen George Floyd 'exalted' by anyone, and I'm a heavy consumer of left-of-center media. That's a false narrative designed to obfuscate the issue. What you can't seem to understand is that life itself is, or should be, exalted, but too often the lives of African Americans are not. Your comments remind me of when Rodney King was beaten to within an inch of his life, cop defenders focused on the fact King was speeding prior to being pulled over -- the effect of which psychologically absolves or, at least, lessens the guilt and burden on the perpetrators.

Then, you clearly are willfully avoiding it. Here's an example - https://www.npr.org/2020/06/09/87337...ife-and-legacy Nobody is excusing the actions of these officers. Please stop excusing the prior actions of the "victim" because, at that point, you're just being willfully ignorant.



The false narrative is pretending like there was no exacerbation to the situation by the "victim." The other false narrative is your attempt to label me as a "cop defender." I most certainly am not. Like most people, I'm somewhere in the center politically and have a love-hate relationship with the police. Unfortunately, their job is generally necessary whereas many of the quasi-militarized tactics imposed upon the populace are most assuredly unnecessary. However, this doesn't mean that George Floyd or Rodney King were blameless in the escalation of their respective situations - which is the way you obviously want or need it to be to frame your argument. For example, you neglected to mention Rodney King's known criminal history and that he led the CHP on a 100+ MPH chase while intoxicated prior to being "pulled over." And then, you failed to mention that he most certainly resisted arrest after he was apprehended. To listen to you, it's as if the guy was doing 30 in a 25 and got the s**t kicked out of him for not showing his insurance card. Yes, the police who beat him were wrong for doing so. However, to insinuate it was just because he was black is downright false.
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Old 07-02-2020, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
1,572 posts, read 883,551 times
Reputation: 971
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew61 View Post
But how did you identify them as white supremacists? Were they waving swastika flags around? </sarcasm>
Nowadays, there doesn't have to be obvious signs for someone to be white supremacists. Most don't have to wave swastika flags or wear white sheets in order to identify as white supremacists. You're waiting for the obvious to see them in white sheets or with their heads shaved off. That's just a part of it, it's not the whole story. A lot of White supremacists are like your everyday "normal" people. Look at Fox News, their anchors don't wave swastika flags around and they say racist things 24/7.
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Old 07-02-2020, 09:27 AM
 
3,640 posts, read 3,563,397 times
Reputation: 3478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector View Post
Then, you clearly are willfully avoiding it. Here's an example - https://www.npr.org/2020/06/09/87337...ife-and-legacy Nobody is excusing the actions of these officers. Please stop excusing the prior actions of the "victim" because, at that point, you're just being willfully ignorant.



The false narrative is pretending like there was no exacerbation to the situation by the "victim." The other false narrative is your attempt to label me as a "cop defender." I most certainly am not. Like most people, I'm somewhere in the center politically and have a love-hate relationship with the police. Unfortunately, their job is generally necessary whereas many of the quasi-militarized tactics imposed upon the populace are most assuredly unnecessary. However, this doesn't mean that George Floyd or Rodney King were blameless in the escalation of their respective situations - which is the way you obviously want or need it to be to frame your argument. For example, you neglected to mention Rodney King's known criminal history and that he led the CHP on a 100+ MPH chase while intoxicated prior to being "pulled over." And then, you failed to mention that he most certainly resisted arrest after he was apprehended. To listen to you, it's as if the guy was doing 30 in a 25 and got the s**t kicked out of him for not showing his insurance card. Yes, the police who beat him were wrong for doing so. However, to insinuate it was just because he was black is downright false.
Your comments reflect that you just don't get it... This is NOT an issue of whether one approves of cops or doesn't, the issue is that there was a felony committed in this case: murder. Period. End of Story. That's why many, generally conservative, hard-core cop union types have publicly decried the horrible act Chauvin committed against Floyd. No cop with any ounce of credibility in the United States is standing with Darren Chauvin. None... And it DOESN'T MATTER what kind of guy Floyd was leading up to this, or even what provocation may have led up to a physical confrontation, the clear, undisputed fact is Chauvin and his cohorts had effectively subdued George Floyd but that he/they clearly exceeded this and murdered Mr. Floyd, esp given the fact that Floyd, and others present, clearly begged Chauvin to take his knee of Floyd's neck when he stated he could not breathe...

... So your talk of what kind of guy Floyd is or what may have led up to this is totally irrelevant. And whether you intended it or not -- I'm not trying to get inside your head -- it smacks of men commenting after a woman is raped how provocatively dressed she may have been...

Last edited by TheProf; 07-02-2020 at 10:36 AM..
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Old 07-03-2020, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
1,572 posts, read 883,551 times
Reputation: 971
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
Yousaw white people? So they're white supremacists? isn't that an example of the profiling you asked about earlier? Dude come on you're smarter than this. I actually didn't see any white people looting at least heinens and geigers. Unless the white supremacists are black now too. Not trying to be a dick, but there is absolutely nothing even close to "proof" that "white supremacists " are behind riots and looting (does that make them the voice of the oppressed then?) Just a few too many mental knots here. But I'll stop commenting on this because it isn't really related
You're took my words out of context, I didn't say that all the white people who participated in the rioting and looting were all white supremacists. I was talking about a certain group of white people who have that mindset. Don't just look at the two businesses you mentioned, there's other footage that you can find Where white people who also participated. The people who burned the Cleveland Police cars Downtown were white. Also, white supremacists aren't just skinheads waving swastika flags or people wearing white sheets.

Last edited by QCongress83216; 07-03-2020 at 10:52 AM..
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Old 07-03-2020, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
9,846 posts, read 9,164,173 times
Reputation: 8869
Quote:
Originally Posted by QCongress83216 View Post
You're took my words out of context, I didn't say that all the white people who participated in the rioting and looting were all white supremacists. I was talking about a certain group of white people who have that mindset. Don't just look at the two businesses you mentioned, there's other footage that you can find Where white people who also participated. The people who burned the Cleveland Police cars Downtown were white. Also, white supremacists aren't just skinheads waving swastika flags or people wearing white sheets.
I really dont think this conversations going anywhere. The white supremacists narrative is the most blatantly made up thing about all of this. Go ahead and believe it if you want.
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Old 07-05-2020, 04:37 PM
 
Location: cleveland
2,342 posts, read 3,835,362 times
Reputation: 1576
Maybe this isn’t the proper form to post this. But do any lives matter after the riot?
22 people shot ,1 stabbing , 3 killed in 9 hours during the holiday in Cleveland!

https://www.cleveland19.com/2020/07/...g-fourth-july/

Last edited by 1watertiger; 07-05-2020 at 05:11 PM.. Reason: Spelling
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Old 07-06-2020, 12:49 AM
 
4,359 posts, read 6,277,593 times
Reputation: 4866
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf View Post
Your comments reflect that you just don't get it... This is NOT an issue of whether one approves of cops or doesn't, the issue is that there was a felony committed in this case: murder. Period. End of Story.

You think so? Just wait for the trial. You're probably going to have a huge problem with the case that will be made over the use of force continuum. The past criminal history or Mr. Floyd will most definitely be a significant factor and counterpoint. It will also likely result in a reduced sentence and possibly reduced charges for the officer, especially in light of the fact that he did resist arrest.


Quote:
... So your talk of what kind of guy Floyd is or what may have led up to this is totally irrelevant. And whether you intended it or not -- I'm not trying to get inside your head -- it smacks of men commenting after a woman is raped how provocatively dressed she may have been...

Unfortunately for you and your argument, it is actually quite relevant in these cases. Also, women everywhere should be downright disgusted by your statement. I'll see if you can figure out why.
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