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Old 06-07-2020, 11:35 AM
 
106 posts, read 24,310 times
Reputation: 120

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf View Post
I agree with Cleveland Collector that many on the Right like to use ANTIFA as the phantom boogey-man that foments all the urban violence at protest rallies. Conversely the Right is silent on white nationalist and neo-Nazi groups who, btw, have had their email intercepted noting their plan to infiltrate and encourage this very type of violence to move the country closer to erupting in a so-called "boogaloo" race war fantasy nonsense. Why? Because it fits the right-wing agenda to pin everything on ANTIFA. And on a more disturbing level, the Alt-right/neo-Nazi crowd is more in sync with much of the hard-right republican conservative viewpoint these days.
Well, the Right may like to use ANTIFA but to say it's a phantom boogey-man that doesn't foment at least some of the violence at protest rallies is misplaced. ANTIFA most certainly fomented the violence last weekend in core cities, including Cleveland.

So who and what are the white supremecists and neo-Nazi groups that had its email intercepted to encourage this type of violence? Not saying they don't exist, but who and where are they?

The race war fantasy nonsense is as big a bunch of nonsense as the class warfare ANTIFA and the alt-left groups want to start. The same left groups are in sync with the far left viewpoint these days as well.

Just asking where these alt-right groups leading and causing mayhem akin to last weekend?

Legit question and asking only because I keep hearing about these alt-right groups but not really if at all seeing them in action on the streets akin to last weekends nationwide destruction. Media only mentioning alt-right groups but never naming them.

Were any right wingers arrested last weekend in Cleveland as part of the roving mob?

Last edited by LNQ20; 06-07-2020 at 01:05 PM..
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Old 06-07-2020, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Cleveland
218 posts, read 278,706 times
Reputation: 190
Lightbulb Police and Race in America - A Perspective of Optimism

Hi All,

Now that we are a week away from last week's violence, I've taken time to reflect and feel like I have some perspective. Let me first say that I was conflicted as I beared witness to what was happening at the justice center Saturday (I left around 4pm once I saw a shattered window on W. 6th street and 2 cop cars were lit on West 3rd, it was clear it was time to go). I now understand that these actions come from a place of grief and a feeling of despair as we as a country have ignored our wounds for far too long. And yes, before you say it - I do acknowledge that there were instigators who may have protested for unjust reasons. However, I truly hope that progress will stem from the fires that were lit downtown and all across the country that day.

Naturally, I've been fixated on national news coverage and seeing what is happening in other cities. Comparing what is happening in other parts of the country to how things have unfolded in Cleveland, I believe we are in much better shape in terms of the violence and destruction. Looking at DC, NY, LA, Atlanta, Minneapolis, even Columbus those cities have had violent clashes between protesters and police for multiple days on end. We've only had one day of violence. Yesterday we had a peaceful protest at the second district with thousands showing up for justice for victims of police brutality - no looting or injuries reported! There have also been marches in Chagrin Falls, Parma, Bay Village, Lakewood, Euclid, and even Medina over the course of this past week. Those are just the ones that I heard of. The message is being delivered, let's not allow the destruction that occurred on Saturday to detract from the message of police brutality against black lives.

I understand that for downtown residents, last week was traumatic, but please do not lose faith in your community. Let's learn from this moment to better our city and actually listen to the message the protesters are trying to deliver. This has been a long time coming due to a nation that keeps ignoring the voices of the marginalized. I believe it was MLK who said "riots are the language of the unheard" - they have your attention, but are you actually listening? At the end of the day the shattered glass will be swept away and the windows will be replaced. I'm sure most of these businesses have insurance, right? What cannot be replaced however, are the black lives lost at the hands of the police. That is the true tragedy in all of this.

In the end, the demands are pretty straight forward - charge the cops. Charge all of the cops who have used excessive / deadly force and hold them accountable. After Ferguson, everyone clamored for review boards and body cameras, but even those measures are simply not enough. Though could you imagine if we didn't have this technology to record these events? I know for me, I am trying to envision a way where we are not dependant on the police for every situation. Some instances could actually benefit from the presence of a social worker rather than a police officer. Also, calling the police on black people for the pettiest things like grilling in the park or going for a jog needs to stop. It's clear that this has become another historical moment for our country - possibly for the world as other countries are beginning to have conversations of what the lived experiences are for black diasporic people. My hope is that we take the time to reflect and learn from it.

The road of justice is long and rocky, but we all have the duty to carry on for the betterment of the next generation. I know some of you on this forum have succumbed to fear and now want to move away. All I can say is that for me, I'm not leaving the city and I'm certainly not going to flee the county. I love the Land and its people and am committed to making it better for all residents.

Peace ~



RR




P.S. Here is an article regarding ways to fundamentally change policing in this country
- I think it's a conversation worth having https://news.yahoo.com/cities-ask-ti...140734408.html
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Old 06-07-2020, 02:08 PM
 
106 posts, read 24,310 times
Reputation: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaisedRustbelt View Post
Hi All,

Now that we are a week away from last week's violence, I've taken time to reflect and feel like I have some perspective. Let me first say that I was conflicted as I beared witness to what was happening at the justice center Saturday (I left around 4pm once I saw a shattered window on W. 6th street and 2 cop cars were lit on West 3rd, it was clear it was time to go). I now understand that these actions come from a place of grief and a feeling of despair as we as a country have ignored our wounds for far too long. And yes, before you say it - I do acknowledge that there were instigators who may have protested for unjust reasons. However, I truly hope that progress will stem from the fires that were lit downtown and all across the country that day.

Naturally, I've been fixated on national news coverage and seeing what is happening in other cities. Comparing what is happening in other parts of the country to how things have unfolded in Cleveland, I believe we are in much better shape in terms of the violence and destruction. Looking at DC, NY, LA, Atlanta, Minneapolis, even Columbus those cities have had violent clashes between protesters and police for multiple days on end. We've only had one day of violence. Yesterday we had a peaceful protest at the second district with thousands showing up for justice for victims of police brutality - no looting or injuries reported! There have also been marches in Chagrin Falls, Parma, Bay Village, Lakewood, Euclid, and even Medina over the course of this past week. Those are just the ones that I heard of. The message is being delivered, let's not allow the destruction that occurred on Saturday to detract from the message of police brutality against black lives.

I understand that for downtown residents, last week was traumatic, but please do not lose faith in your community. Let's learn from this moment to better our city and actually listen to the message the protesters are trying to deliver. This has been a long time coming due to a nation that keeps ignoring the voices of the marginalized. I believe it was MLK who said "riots are the language of the unheard" - they have your attention, but are you actually listening? At the end of the day the shattered glass will be swept away and the windows will be replaced. I'm sure most of these businesses have insurance, right? What cannot be replaced however, are the black lives lost at the hands of the police. That is the true tragedy in all of this.

In the end, the demands are pretty straight forward - charge the cops. Charge all of the cops who have used excessive / deadly force and hold them accountable. After Ferguson, everyone clamored for review boards and body cameras, but even those measures are simply not enough. Though could you imagine if we didn't have this technology to record these events? I know for me, I am trying to envision a way where we are not dependant on the police for every situation. Some instances could actually benefit from the presence of a social worker rather than a police officer. Also, calling the police on black people for the pettiest things like grilling in the park or going for a jog needs to stop. It's clear that this has become another historical moment for our country - possibly for the world as other countries are beginning to have conversations of what the lived experiences are for black diasporic people. My hope is that we take the time to reflect and learn from it.

The road of justice is long and rocky, but we all have the duty to carry on for the betterment of the next generation. I know some of you on this forum have succumbed to fear and now want to move away. All I can say is that for me, I'm not leaving the city and I'm certainly not going to flee the county. I love the Land and its people and am committed to making it better for all residents.

Peace ~



RR




P.S. Here is an article regarding ways to fundamentally change policing in this country
- I think it's a conversation worth having https://news.yahoo.com/cities-ask-ti...140734408.html
Most of these cities had white dominated crowds, the anger in the looting etc was opportunisitic. NBA championships saw mass looting in 1990s Chicago so this whole anger thing is a non-issue.

MLK was referring to '60s riots, those contained to the ghettos, not this out for any reason to loot.

Also, Cleveland isn't even a progressive blue city. The progressive blue cities left business owners and citizens to fend for themselves.

Yes, replace police officers with social workers. NYC mayor just announced he's redirecting some police funding to community groups.

Why don't these white social justice warriors and anarchists out there simply join the police departments and work the reform from within?

Was actually thinking of relocating into Cleveland from a blue sanctuary city. After last weekend, no thanks but all of those who want to partake in today's neo-progressive movement, have at it but I'm done with blue progressivism.

I hope it works out for these cities succumbing to this mindset but you can ultimately be on your own safetywise as we saw last week. Folks can slice and dice this whole issue but you're not safe in these cities.

I'm sure many are reconsidering living in these awesome urban centers and living in buildings with first floor retail.

CLE is lucky no residents were killed or burned out this time...but the mob will be back.
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Old 06-07-2020, 02:10 PM
 
106 posts, read 24,310 times
Reputation: 120
Were any Cleveland neighborhoods looted? Haven't heard or read about any other than downtown looting and destruction. I know there's not a lot of retail in many Cleveland neighborhoods, especially corp ones, so perhaps the pickins', other than downtown, weren't that great.

Downtown was looted and trashed by ANTIFA-Anarchists because it's where white folks with a couple of buck lives and patronize nice restaurants. Symbolic targets like this all across the U.S.

Last edited by LNQ20; 06-07-2020 at 03:21 PM..
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Old 06-07-2020, 03:34 PM
 
9,592 posts, read 6,331,951 times
Reputation: 5526
Default What really went wrong during downtown George Floyd riot?

Perhaps I'll comment further on the following two reports, but they certainly reinforce my opinion that Cleveland's administration and police leadership were grossly incompetent in preparing for and responding to the Saturday riot and looting. Chief Williams' cover-up and subsequent statements are disgusting IMO, if the accusations in the letter are accurate. I'm amazed this letter has NOT generated much more controversy.

https://www.cleveland19.com/2020/06/...ndled-protest/

If you freeze the video (at 1:49-1:50 mark) at the appropriate moment, you can read much of the letter, but it's surprising to me that the text of this letter isn't available, including at a link at the Channel 19 website. Cleveland's journalism is pitifully inept IMO.

Here's a similar, but less detailed report (than the anonymous letter), from Cleveland.com. The anonymous letter details (in the second column) the poor, micro-managed response to the riot overseen by Chief Williams. E.g., incomprehensibly, the letter says that initially Chief Williams reserved the right to authorize any arrest to himself. The Cleveland.com story discusses few of the accusations made in the letter.

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2020...nprepared.html

Didn't Cleveland.com receive a copy of the anonymous letter?

If I lived in the City of Cleveland, I would demand that City Council launch an investigation into the riot response, especially given the accusations contained in this letter.
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Old 06-07-2020, 05:57 PM
 
106 posts, read 24,310 times
Reputation: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Perhaps I'll comment further on the following two reports, but they certainly reinforce my opinion that Cleveland's administration and police leadership were grossly incompetent in preparing for and responding to the Saturday riot and looting. Chief Williams' cover-up and subsequent statements are disgusting IMO, if the accusations in the letter are accurate. I'm amazed this letter has NOT generated much more controversy.

https://www.cleveland19.com/2020/06/...ndled-protest/

If you freeze the video (at 1:49-1:50 mark) at the appropriate moment, you can read much of the letter, but it's surprising to me that the text of this letter isn't available, including at a link at the Channel 19 website. Cleveland's journalism is pitifully inept IMO.

Here's a similar, but less detailed report (than the anonymous letter), from Cleveland.com. The anonymous letter details (in the second column) the poor, micro-managed response to the riot overseen by Chief Williams. E.g., incomprehensibly, the letter says that initially Chief Williams reserved the right to authorize any arrest to himself. The Cleveland.com story discusses few of the accusations made in the letter.

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2020...nprepared.html

Didn't Cleveland.com receive a copy of the anonymous letter?

If I lived in the City of Cleveland, I would demand that City Council launch an investigation into the riot response, especially given the accusations contained in this letter.
As bad as you think Cleveland Police handled this situation. at least there was some response. Be glad Cleveland isn't a progressive blue city as well; those cities saw no response and have pretty much tied all cops' hands.

Using tear gas is now banned in some blue progressive cities. Cleveland Police would be under fire if they were aggressive, so it's a lose-lose situation for Cleveland Police and pretty much all blue cities, progressive or not.

Cleveland wasn't even hit that hard. Pretty confident Cleveland will stave becoming a blue progressive city as the millennial population, which was increasing, isn't all that large comparatively speaking. Please avoid the trifecta recipe of blue progressive disasters: progressive mayors, district attorneys, and police chiefs/commissioners.

Cleveland is lucky toh have the continued and expected inept leadership it has; it's worse when ivy league progressives take over what were once otherwise thriving cities.
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Old 06-07-2020, 07:35 PM
 
3,640 posts, read 3,543,738 times
Reputation: 3468
Quote:
Originally Posted by LNQ20 View Post
As bad as you think Cleveland Police handled this situation. at least there was some response. Be glad Cleveland isn't a progressive blue city as well; those cities saw no response and have pretty much tied all cops' hands.

Using tear gas is now banned in some blue progressive cities. Cleveland Police would be under fire if they were aggressive, so it's a lose-lose situation for Cleveland Police and pretty much all blue cities, progressive or not.

Cleveland wasn't even hit that hard. Pretty confident Cleveland will stave becoming a blue progressive city as the millennial population, which was increasing, isn't all that large comparatively speaking. Please avoid the trifecta recipe of blue progressive disasters: progressive mayors, district attorneys, and police chiefs/commissioners.

Cleveland is lucky toh have the continued and expected inept leadership it has; it's worse when ivy league progressives take over what were once otherwise thriving cities.
So hard Right, police-state militaristic conservatives would be preferable as local leaders?
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Old 06-07-2020, 07:45 PM
 
106 posts, read 24,310 times
Reputation: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf View Post
So hard Right, police-state militaristic conservatives would be preferable as local leaders?
no, where did you read that or is it a need to read that? You seem to have an alt-right thing going on.

so what are the names of these alt-right groups infiltrating these protests? Any of the members arrested in CLE? You mentioned an e-mail account so far, is this the extent of these KKK like groups presence last week? Alleged e-mails?

seriously, I'm wondering who the alt-right counterparts to the alt-left groups are?

Any effective leadership would be nice. Cleveland wasn't even hit hard last week so at least you got that from the embedded locals running the show. Nonetheless, Cleveland residents saw that its leadership left them exposed but not as bad as the blue progressive cities.

Last edited by LNQ20; 06-07-2020 at 08:28 PM..
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Old 06-08-2020, 05:59 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
9,828 posts, read 9,112,649 times
Reputation: 8821
Quote:
Originally Posted by LNQ20 View Post
Were any Cleveland neighborhoods looted? Haven't heard or read about any other than downtown looting and destruction. I know there's not a lot of retail in many Cleveland neighborhoods, especially corp ones, so perhaps the pickins', other than downtown, weren't that great.

Downtown was looted and trashed by ANTIFA-Anarchists because it's where white folks with a couple of buck lives and patronize nice restaurants. Symbolic targets like this all across the U.S.
That next Sunday morning there was looting going on at E 79th and Euclid (Church Square Shops), mostly Villa. Not the same level as downtown though.

Things downtown now feel normal, but lots of closures. The ramifications of the virus lockdown and looting are yet to be determined. I want to stay downtown but am also considering all options.
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Old 06-08-2020, 11:42 AM
 
106 posts, read 24,310 times
Reputation: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
That next Sunday morning there was looting going on at E 79th and Euclid (Church Square Shops), mostly Villa. Not the same level as downtown though.

Things downtown now feel normal, but lots of closures. The ramifications of the virus lockdown and looting are yet to be determined. I want to stay downtown but am also considering all options.
Cleveland police at least responded. Can't see the old school CLE mayor falling for this defund the police nonsense. Cleveland isn't considered to be a progressive city so you should be thankful for that.

Cleveland has always been an iffy proposition, at least the past 50 or so years, but we saw all the blue progressive cities lack of leadership and control in dealing with protesters and widespread looting. The bad folks saw the lack of control and how easy it is to make cops the problem. The criminal element love this mentality.

But the white social justice warriors have the answers and solutions from their urban studies courses, so we're all in good hands. They're going to rescue the black community.

Good luck in downtown Cleveland.

Last edited by LNQ20; 06-08-2020 at 12:10 PM..
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