What is the deal with Pittsburgh? (Cleveland, Akron: house, job market, neighborhoods)

[BelieveInCleve]

I think has turned into something that it was not meant to be. Just remember to calm down people and be respectable.

[Bazzwell]

Here I go again, looking in "new posts" and find myself in Cleveland. As Myron Cope would say...."yoi".

Let's be honest, the original poster has an opinion and they're certainly allowed to have it. No big deal and they haven't hurt my feelings at all.

Every part of the earth has a rhythm all it's own and you either groove along with it or you don't. The proper thing to do is to thank them for coming and wish them well on their journey.

[Yac]

Originally Posted by Cle440

I think has turned into something that it was not meant to be. Just remember to calm down people and be respectable.

What he said.
Yac.

[llowllevellowll]

Originally Posted by Clevelander17

Why am I not shocked? I guess if you guys need to rationalize your behavior, Mikieo's post does a great job.

I've said alot of positive things regarding the area. More importantly, I think very positively about the area. I get very excited to show my friends around Cleveland (in the spring) and I'm sure as summer rolls around, I'll be remembering the great things I've always loved about NE Ohio. In the winter, it's a bit depressing here so if I sounded more negative, it's probably unique to the weather, you know? But I am surprised that you think I'm overly negative because I think my friends would say I am extremely realistic.

I am also, however, a history major and a traveller (that sounds a bit on the arrogant side, I apologize) and I very much enjoy studying the markets, economy and changes of areas. It's that part of me that enjoys telling the sad story that is Cleveland. I enjoy what is real -- Cleveland, in my opinion, though many areas are only a shell of their former selves, has done a good job at guiding themselves to other white collar fields (most notably in medicine and in law). You really have to give the area credit for that -- something Detroit is struggling to do.

But it seems you may be slightly on the revisionist side -- wanting to focus solely on positives and in the rust belt, I just don't see how that's altogether possible. When I show my friends around the city, I'm not just going to show them the the DawgPound, The Jake, the Lakefront, E.4th like many will, but they'll also hear of the historical need for change that doesn't just concern downtown--visible to all visitors. Maybe it's appropriate to go to Kinsman to E.79th -- destruction and decay are an integral part of what makes Cleveland, well, Cleveland.

We must look to the future and not always harken back to only good memories or I don't believe it will ever get better. Focusing on the bad may not actually be a negative, but a way to turn it into a positive.

[Katarina Witt]

As a native Pittsburgher (ex-pat, in Colorado for 28 yrs), I find this thread highly entertaining. It's a sort of "see ourselves as others see us" type of thing, or it was until the last few posts, which seem to have nothing to do with Pittsburgh.

The Cleveland forum seems much like the Pittsburgh forum. People complaining about others' negativity, while some others say the first group are ignoring the problems and focusing on ONLY the positive, etc. Some saying you won't be happy if you leave, others saying the opposite. Some accusing the ones who left of "sour grapes", and of "bashing" the city 5-10 years out.

Anyway, I enjoyed it.

[londonbarcelona]

Originally Posted by Katiana

As a native Pittsburgher (ex-pat, in Colorado for 28 yrs), I find this thread highly entertaining. It's a sort of "see ourselves as others see us" type of thing, or it was until the last few posts, which seem to have nothing to do with Pittsburgh.

The Cleveland forum seems much like the Pittsburgh forum. People complaining about others' negativity, while some others say the first group are ignoring the problems and focusing on ONLY the positive, etc. Some saying you won't be happy if you leave, others saying the opposite. Some accusing the ones who left of "sour grapes", and of "bashing" the city 5-10 years out.

Anyway, I enjoyed it.

I found it entertaining also. *smile*

Sorry guys, I wasn't trying to start an argument, I was honestly just trying to see if what I had experienced in the Pittsburgh forum was unique to the area. Since we'd had the opportunity to choose between the two cities I thought it would interesting to pose the question to our other choice. I do admit it was in poor taste to call Pittsburgh Sh*ttsburgh, but with all the bashing I was taking over there I felt the need to bash back. However, I really did not expect to start an argument within this forum! For that I do apologize!
From what I gather, both cities have their bad and good and obviously both cities have their passionate voices on both the opposing and supporting sides.
Again, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by Puddy4LyF

I've said alot of positive things regarding the area. More importantly, I think very positively about the area. I get very excited to show my friends around Cleveland (in the spring) and I'm sure as summer rolls around, I'll be remembering the great things I've always loved about NE Ohio. In the winter, it's a bit depressing here so if I sounded more negative, it's probably unique to the weather, you know? But I am surprised that you think I'm overly negative because I think my friends would say I am extremely realistic.

I am also, however, a history major and a traveller (that sounds a bit on the arrogant side, I apologize) and I very much enjoy studying the markets, economy and changes of areas. It's that part of me that enjoys telling the sad story that is Cleveland. I enjoy what is real -- Cleveland, in my opinion, though many areas are only a shell of their former selves, has done a good job at guiding themselves to other white collar fields (most notably in medicine and in law). You really have to give the area credit for that -- something Detroit is struggling to do.

But it seems you may be slightly on the revisionist side -- wanting to focus solely on positives and in the rust belt, I just don't see how that's altogether possible. When I show my friends around the city, I'm not just going to show them the the DawgPound, The Jake, the Lakefront, E.4th like many will, but they'll also hear of the historical need for change that doesn't just concern downtown--visible to all visitors. Maybe it's appropriate to go to Kinsman to E.79th -- destruction and decay are an integral part of what makes Cleveland, well, Cleveland.

We must look to the future and not always harken back to only good memories or I don't believe it will ever get better. Focusing on the bad may not actually be a negative, but a way to turn it into a positive.

Good post. Thank you for the explanation, I appreciate it. If I've been hard on you recently, I apologize now that I see where you're coming from.

Just for clarification, when I speak about Cleveland, and its positives, I'm generally referring to the Cleveland metropolitan area as a whole. Things may be bad in the region, as a whole, but not nearly as bad as Cleveland proper. The area has a lot of potential and has gotten better in a lot of regards in recent decades. Things will never be like they were 50-60 years ago, but I don't think I'm wrong for being optimistic about the future.

[llowllevellowll]

I think we've been hard on each other, heheh -- we're probably more similar that we'd like to think.

Now that that's cleared up, let's really rip on S#ittsburgh.

Just Joshin'

[Mikieo415]

Katiana, your observation is refreshing as usual. Funny thing is that what I said about people who carry on when they try to quash any discussion of problems in Ohio has been proven. Now, I think it is time for everyone to get back on topic like the moderator has recommended.

I will let "res ipsa loquitur".

[The Cactus Leaguer]

Well I have never lived in Pittsburgh or Cleveland, but I visit both on a regular basis because I have in-laws there. I think they are both great cities, and as others have mentioned, they are more similar than dissimilar.

The first thing that blows me away about both cities is that, even though both are about the same size as Portland (where I live), they have the sports and cultural amenities of much larger cities. I'm not sure if that imbalance will continue given the current migration patterns (which will change, IMHO, but that's a different topic), but for now, don't take that for granted because it is a very very very cool thing to have.

The second thing is that, yeah, they are both "rust belt" cities, but they are both much more scenic than they are given credit for.

As far as differences go, and how that might manifest itself in people being "nicer" or "meaner", I can't say with any level of certainty. My observation is that when people move to a new region, their perceptions of others in the area are more a reflection of where they are at in life (it's harder to make new friends after 30, IMHO) and the attitudes of people where they are spending their time (say, a happy, motivated workplace versus a depressing bar versus an uplifting church, etc.). In other words, its a personal experience that's tough to generalize.

That being said, on to the stereotypes...

Weather - Cleveland obviously gets more snow, so maybe that makes Clevelanders (the ones who hate snow, anyway) more grumpy. But I think 43 degrees and drizzle (a typical Portland winter day) is much more depressing than snow, so what do I know.

Roads - As a non-resident, I find it very difficult and frustrating to navigate the streets and highways of Pittsburgh... in Cleveland it is much easier to get around, IMHO. So maybe that makes Pittsburgh residents comparatively grumpier(???)...

"Rednecks" - Pittsburgh definitely has more of a southern feel than Cleveland, judging purely from the accents. But again, I don't think this makes them any more or less grumpy by comparison.

"Laid back attitudes" - Portland is one of the most laid back cities around (IMHO), and I don't mean this as a compliment necessarily. Portland is a place where relationships are more wide, but not as deep. In my very limited experience with Cleveland and Pittsburgh, both strike me more as places where people may not have as many casual acquaintances, but the relationships are deeper and more meaningful. I think the relative proximity to NYC is a factor as well. Again, not much difference between Cle/Pit to me.

My simple way of illustrating this is what happens when a driver is daydreaming at a stoplight when it turns green. In Cleveland and Pittsburgh, the driver(s) behind will lay on the horn immediately and constantly until the driver goes. In Portland, people are literally afraid to honk their horn out of fear that they will offend or startle the daydreamer. What is right/wrong, polite/rude is a personal perception and a cultural/regional norm, I suppose.

Sports team success - I wonder if the relative success of the sports teams has any effect on people's general attitudes in both cities. I doubt it, but it's fun to speculate. I have never experienced sports fans that are so passionate as Cleveland despite the endless stream of heartaches... and I love it! Why? Because that's real love, not bandwagoning like what happens with many teams out West.

In short, my response to the original question - "What is the deal with Pittsburgh?" - is, I don't think there any deal, really... maybe a bit of provincialism which is perfectly understandable.