What is Cleveland’s suburban equivalent to Naperville, Illinois? (Parma: condo, neighborhoods)

[tribecavsbrowns]

I can see the Lakewood-Bridgeport comparison if you limit it to the Birdtown section of Lakewood, as TheProf pointed out. Beyond that, I'd definitely push back on the notion that Lakewood was ever a "run-down area that people didn't want to associate with." NewtoCle, I'm sure you've heard people say "yeah, Lake View (or North Center, or Lincoln Square, or wherever), that used to be a bad area and now it's $1 million condos," and natives chuckle and say, "bad area, why? It was a normal area. Middle class families, small businesses, and kids that would sometimes get in fistfights after school." As a Lakewood native, that's how I'm feeling here.

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns

I can see the Lakewood-Bridgeport comparison if you limit it to the Birdtown section of Lakewood, as TheProf pointed out. Beyond that, I'd definitely push back on the notion that Lakewood was ever a "run-down area that people didn't want to associate with." NewtoCle, I'm sure you've heard people say "yeah, Lake View (or North Center, or Lincoln Square, or wherever), that used to be a bad area and now it's $1 million condos," and natives chuckle and say, "bad area, why? It was a normal area. Middle class families, small businesses, and kids that would sometimes get in fistfights after school." As a Lakewood native, that's how I'm feeling here.

To be fair, about 20 years ago Lakewood was regarded negatively by many who lived in more affluent suburbs further out... and the trend at the time was for a good number of Lakewoodites to sell their houses and relocate to places like Westlake or Avon.

There were plenty of people predicting that Lakewood was the next East Cleveland. Of course, that didn't happen.

I'd have used the words "grungy" or "scruffy" instead of "rundown". Lakewood did -- and still does -- look like that in places.

[NewtoCle]

Originally Posted by TheProf

You sound like you don't know Greater Cleveland that well. First, the wealthy/mansion area of Shaker isn't 'small' but stretches for several miles, 2 conservatively, and exists for both the upper and lower Shaker Lakes (which are reversed geographically on a map). You don't really even find a comparison to South Woodland Blvd in Evanston, in terms of high-quality homes, and South Woodland is a slight step down from South Park, North Park, Eaton. I don't even see an Evanston street comparable to Shaker Blvd, the rapid transit street, in terms of quality homes... Shaker is not elitist, overall, and has a liberal mentality, but it also has a wealthy blue-blood reputation -- I grant you, it is not as extreme as it was, but it is still there. In fact there are other overall wealthier Cleveland suburbs like Hunting Valley or Gates Mills or Moreland Hills, but Shaker is front of mind for most folks, esp East Coast types when speaking of a Cleveland neighborhood/suburb for the wealthy. It has the rep... Shaker is still a default suburb for wealthy, well-known individuals... Why did famed, nationally known media star (and very rich) Iron Chef Michael Symon relocate from North Olmsted to Shaker? Why did conservative Fox News talker Geraldo Rivera (who I can't stand), move from New York to Shaker where he now lives full-time and often broadcasts from his home?

As for Lakewood -- I don't know what Lakewood you're talking about when you say the suburb was a 'rundown' area. Cleveland's Lakewood has never been that... The bulk of Lakewood is middle class and has been for some time. Lakewood is old, one of Cleveland's oldest pure suburbs and was established during the Industrial Revolution era when Cleveland boomed from burg-to-major city. Many Lakewood homes were built in the late 19th century. Only the small SE corner of it was considered a tad dangerous -- Birdtown -- but that neighborhood has become a growing hotspot for hipsters and other young professionals... But even Birdtown was never 'rundown' as Lakewood has long had strong housing code enforcement and there is and has been, little blight or trash on streets, etc. It has long been well-run... And of course, we're not even talking about the other lakeshore areas, including the upscale highrise Gold Coast in the NE corner of the suburb and the upper-middle class-to-wealthy sections along Lake Erie stretching to the West.

This is according to the testament of locals. I moved to Lakewood and they told me that it was a sketchy area with old, run down housing that didn't have a good reputation going back 10-20 years ago. Told me a lot of gentrification took place in the area. Granted, I've noticed people in NEO like to exaggerate so I can see why you took offense if that is not the case. As for shaker, that area east of lee road and north of woodland 7000 people live there in a suburb of 29,000. That's the area that has demography reflective of Lake Forest.

[NewtoCle]

Originally Posted by andrew61

To be fair, about 20 years ago Lakewood was regarded negatively by many who lived in more affluent suburbs further out... and the trend at the time was for a good number of Lakewoodites to sell their houses and relocate to places like Westlake or Avon.

There were plenty of people predicting that Lakewood was the next East Cleveland. Of course, that didn't happen.

I'd have used the words "grungy" or "scruffy" instead of "rundown". Lakewood did -- and still does -- look like that in places.

You hit the nail on the head. It was folks from outside of Lakewood who told me about its "dark" past prior to gentrification. Personally, I chose it cause it's the closest I'll get to Chicago style living in NEO.

[NewtoCle]

Originally Posted by andrew61

Oh, god, not Bridgeport. I don't see any similarity there at all. Lakewood is somewhat more like Chicago's Edgewater community on the north side. (Edgewater even has a neighborhood within it called Lakewood-Balmoral, a residential area that reminds me very much of Lakewood streets such as Cohassett, Grace, and Clarence. And other residential streets in Edgewater Glen -- several streets immediately south of Granville Avenue between Broadway and Clark Street -- also strike me as very Lakewood-esque.)

Heck, I sometimes regard Chicago's North Side as one giant Lakewood -- a Lakewood on steroids. Lakewood times a hundred.

As for Lakewood not being close in wealth to Evanston -- it's gaining ground with all the gentrification and increase in home prices, and might get there sooner than we think.

As for Shaker being more like Evanston than like Winnetka/Glencoe, I can definitely see your point if you're referring to racial and socioeconomic diversity... which Shaker and Evanston both have, but Winnetka and Glencoe not so much.

I'm kind of surprised by all the backlash for the Bridgeport comparison. Ya'll act like it's insulting to compare Lakewood to Bridgeport lol. I can see Chicago Edgewater as a Lakewood comparison too. Primary difference being that Edgewater has a Whole Foods and Andersonville in its vicinity. Bridgeport came to mind cause it's a trendy, gentrifying area on the upswing with a young populace.

[NewtoCle]

Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns

I can see the Lakewood-Bridgeport comparison if you limit it to the Birdtown section of Lakewood, as TheProf pointed out. Beyond that, I'd definitely push back on the notion that Lakewood was ever a "run-down area that people didn't want to associate with." NewtoCle, I'm sure you've heard people say "yeah, Lake View (or North Center, or Lincoln Square, or wherever), that used to be a bad area and now it's $1 million condos," and natives chuckle and say, "bad area, why? It was a normal area. Middle class families, small businesses, and kids that would sometimes get in fistfights after school." As a Lakewood native, that's how I'm feeling here.

Yeah I get what you mean. Same can be said for Rogers Park. 15 years ago it wasn't the greatest place and now it's better to people outside of Rogers Park.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by NewtoCle

This is according to the testament of locals. I moved to Lakewood and they told me that it was a sketchy area with old, run down housing that didn't have a good reputation going back 10-20 years ago. Told me a lot of gentrification took place in the area. Granted, I've noticed people in NEO like to exaggerate so I can see why you took offense if that is not the case. As for shaker, that area east of lee road and north of woodland 7000 people live there in a suburb of 29,000. That's the area that has demography reflective of Lake Forest.

I wouldn't call it exaggeration and I hardly took offense. It is the other way around, usually. Some non-Cleveland people -- I'm not saying you -- tend to downgrade Cleveland aspects or, as Shakespeare would say: damn the city with faint praise. A common example: "Cleveland has a Top 2 or 3 orchestra worldwide." Response: 'who cares about classical music?'

Then of course are the still legions of self-hating Clevelanders who, after years of city jokes and putdowns, tend to constantly down the city and often brag that they never go downtown because of how dangerous it is. Perhaps the latter types were the ones telling you how rundown Lakewood was when, really, it never was. As I acknowledged, the Birdtown area was a bit 'sketchy' mainly petty crime-wise, which is not the same as rundown. Anyway, it is a good thing you moved to Lakewood... To me, it is one of the coolest suburbs in Cleveland and compares well with quality 'burbs around the country imho. It is old, got tons of character, a dense, ped-friendly old downtown area, is very walkable and transit-friendly, is very diverse people-wise, building-wise and income-wise, and it has one of the great assets of the region -- an extensive pristine lakeshore where, not surprisingly, are the highest income properties and neighborhoods.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by TheProf

Shaker is not elitist, overall, and has a liberal mentality, but it also has a wealthy blue-blood reputation -- I grant you, it is not as extreme as it was, but it is still there. In fact there are other overall wealthier Cleveland suburbs like Hunting Valley or Gates Mills or Moreland Hills, but Shaker is front of mind for most folks, esp East Coast types when speaking of a Cleveland neighborhood/suburb for the wealthy.

The wealthiest Cleveland suburb today after the relatively unpopulated Hunting Valley (large estates) is Pepper Pike. Over half a century ago, I believe Shaker Hts. had that distinction.

[kpl1228]

Solon, but no easy parallels.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by WRnative

The wealthiest Cleveland suburb today after the relatively unpopulated Hunting Valley (large estates) is Pepper Pike. Over half a century ago, I believe Shaker Hts. had that distinction.