Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Ohio > Cleveland
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-01-2022, 12:08 PM
 
1,026 posts, read 446,483 times
Reputation: 686

Advertisements

With the loss of ridership #s on the Red Line for example, a loss of (-84.4%) at Tower City alone in 2021 compared to 2018, RTA has much bigger issues than expansion of its current system, let alone extending the Blue Line to Akron.

Top 5 Station losses (all Red Line stations had significant declines ranging from -30.2% to -84.4%):

Tower City: 2018: 2,250,542....2021: 352,088 (-84.4%)
E 79: 2018: 81,052....2021: 18,019 (-77.8%)
West Blvd: 2018: 368,090....2021: 175,114 (-63.8%)
E 55: 2018: 167,386....2021: 66,159 (-60.5%)
Puritas: 2018: 250,091....2021: 104,300 (-58.3%)

Station with the lowest decline: Airport 2018: 227,452....2021: 158,826 (-30.2%)

Realizing of course that the pandemic started its toll in 2020, the numbers at the majority of stations declined 2018-2019, including Tower City.

Current GM India L Birdsong is invisible. Drummed out of Nashville post-transit expansion campaign loss, Cleveland picked her up in 2019. What exactly are her qualifications, beyond optics, to run a system like CLE RTA? How and why was she hired? Starting salary 2019: $260,000

The only thing she's done is close the Waterfront Line in 2021 for ''fractures'' in the Flats bridge. Now ''scheduled'' to start service again in time for the the Browns 2023 season?

RTA priority #1: a competent General Manager. Get rid of Birdsong ASAP.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-01-2022, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Cleveland and Columbus OH
11,052 posts, read 12,434,904 times
Reputation: 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPK21 View Post
With the loss of ridership #s on the Red Line for example, a loss of (-84.4%) at Tower City alone in 2021 compared to 2018, RTA has much bigger issues than expansion of its current system, let alone extending the Blue Line to Akron.

Top 5 Station losses (all Red Line stations had significant declines ranging from -30.2% to -84.4%):

Tower City: 2018: 2,250,542....2021: 352,088 (-84.4%)
E 79: 2018: 81,052....2021: 18,019 (-77.8%)
West Blvd: 2018: 368,090....2021: 175,114 (-63.8%)
E 55: 2018: 167,386....2021: 66,159 (-60.5%)
Puritas: 2018: 250,091....2021: 104,300 (-58.3%)

Station with the lowest decline: Airport 2018: 227,452....2021: 158,826 (-30.2%)

Realizing of course that the pandemic started its toll in 2020, the numbers at the majority of stations declined 2018-2019, including Tower City.

Current GM India L Birdsong is invisible. Drummed out of Nashville post-transit expansion campaign loss, Cleveland picked her up in 2019. What exactly are her qualifications, beyond optics, to run a system like CLE RTA? How and why was she hired? Starting salary 2019: $260,000

The only thing she's done is close the Waterfront Line in 2021 for ''fractures'' in the Flats bridge. Now ''scheduled'' to start service again in time for the the Browns 2023 season?

RTA priority #1: a competent General Manager. Get rid of Birdsong ASAP.
I'm not sure 2021 numbers should be taken too seriously. It's quite an anomaly. Kinda cherry picked data. 2022 will be much more telling. Not to defend anyone in particular, it's very possible Birdsong is terrible. I don't know. But let's just be fair about the dates here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-01-2022, 02:36 PM
 
6,601 posts, read 8,976,499 times
Reputation: 4699
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
I'm not sure 2021 numbers should be taken too seriously. It's quite an anomaly. Kinda cherry picked data. 2022 will be much more telling. Not to defend anyone in particular, it's very possible Birdsong is terrible. I don't know. But let's just be fair about the dates here.
I agree, but it still has to be a big drop. So many jobs have switched to hybrid, if not full remote.

Driving may also be more attractive now than pre-pandemic, with less traffic and more available & cheaper parking.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-01-2022, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Cleveland and Columbus OH
11,052 posts, read 12,434,904 times
Reputation: 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferraris View Post
I agree, but it still has to be a big drop. So many jobs have switched to hybrid, if not full remote.

Driving may also be more attractive now than pre-pandemic, with less traffic and more available & cheaper parking.
although I'd be willing to bet most hybrid workers (laptop class, white collar) never took RTA to begin with.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-01-2022, 08:27 PM
 
1,026 posts, read 446,483 times
Reputation: 686
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
I'm not sure 2021 numbers should be taken too seriously. It's quite an anomaly. Kinda cherry picked data. 2022 will be much more telling. Not to defend anyone in particular, it's very possible Birdsong is terrible. I don't know. But let's just be fair about the dates here.
It's not cherry picked, it's a fact that RTA is in a huge hole, like many transit systems today. RTA has seen 40 years of general decline and, obviously, the pandemic dropped the floor out on ridership. I did state that the pandemic began its toll in 2020 and took it for granted that we all know that 2020/2021 was an anomaly.

Transit and commercial real estate, in Cleveland and around the U.S., are in for some tough times going forward including the tax bases in cities, suburbs, and regions.

RTA is in survival mode, not expansion mode.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-01-2022, 08:33 PM
 
1,026 posts, read 446,483 times
Reputation: 686
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
although I'd be willing to bet most hybrid workers (laptop class, white collar) never took RTA to begin with.
Then there shouldn't be an issue with ridership in 2022 going forward. Browns, Guardians, Cavs, special events and St Patrick's Day riders should be in full force to get those riders back.

The Red Line wasn't attracting white collar workers anyway pre-pandemic. Gone were the days of packed trains leaving tower city full of office workers.

Plus having updated trains should help attract or at least retain riders.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2022, 04:37 AM
 
Location: Cleveland and Columbus OH
11,052 posts, read 12,434,904 times
Reputation: 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPK21 View Post
It's not cherry picked, it's a fact that RTA is in a huge hole, like many transit systems today. RTA has seen 40 years of general decline and, obviously, the pandemic dropped the floor out on ridership. I did state that the pandemic began its toll in 2020 and took it for granted that we all know that 2020/2021 was an anomaly.

Transit and commercial real estate, in Cleveland and around the U.S., are in for some tough times going forward including the tax bases in cities, suburbs, and regions.

RTA is in survival mode, not expansion mode.
I mean it is absolutely cherry picked! The only more cherry picked date would have been 2020. I'm not arguing for or against anyone here I'm just asking to be a little honest about 2021. Might be easy to forget now, but the first half especially of 2021 was still covid times. Heck I didn't return to the office until June 2022!

Anyway, I am hoping RTA numbers grow it is a shame that we have in theory a nice system but in practice it doesn't get the love it needs, from the people in charge and from riders.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2022, 04:40 AM
 
Location: Cleveland and Columbus OH
11,052 posts, read 12,434,904 times
Reputation: 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPK21 View Post
Then there shouldn't be an issue with ridership in 2022 going forward. Browns, Guardians, Cavs, special events and St Patrick's Day riders should be in full force to get those riders back.

The Red Line wasn't attracting white collar workers anyway pre-pandemic. Gone were the days of packed trains leaving tower city full of office workers.

Plus having updated trains should help attract or at least retain riders.
Agree with all of this. The other thing that RTA really needs to focus on is safety. I can totally understand, depending where you are and on what line and time of day, why someone would avoid using RTA. I used to see transit cops all the time 10 years ago. Now it's a rarity, although I also don't really have service where I live anymore. Or if not cops at least have some people manning some of these stations. And maybe actually collect fares. VERY easy to avoid paying on the red line for example.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2022, 10:30 AM
 
1,026 posts, read 446,483 times
Reputation: 686
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
I mean it is absolutely cherry picked! The only more cherry picked date would have been 2020. I'm not arguing for or against anyone here I'm just asking to be a little honest about 2021. Might be easy to forget now, but the first half especially of 2021 was still covid times. Heck I didn't return to the office until June 2022!

Anyway, I am hoping RTA numbers grow it is a shame that we have in theory a nice system but in practice it doesn't get the love it needs, from the people in charge and from riders.
Not to go on but nothing is cherry picked in the numbers I cited for the Red Line 2018-2021; what was available that's not included or was intentionally avoided? Who's not being honest about 2021?

RTA numbers will grow in 2022 but to what extent is the issue, that's all. RTA, like most transit systems, are in a big hole and were losing ridership pre-pandemic.

A -84.4% loss at Tower City, for example, is stunning and is the reason that RTA needs competent leadership to get people back on the trains and buses even to the lackluster pre-pandemic levels. Low ridership on the Red Line also enhances the safety issue.

I blame RTA for its long-term corrupt practices yet still hope it can attract riders that choose to use the system and not just those that must use it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2022, 10:55 AM
 
1,026 posts, read 446,483 times
Reputation: 686
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
Agree with all of this. The other thing that RTA really needs to focus on is safety. I can totally understand, depending where you are and on what line and time of day, why someone would avoid using RTA. I used to see transit cops all the time 10 years ago. Now it's a rarity, although I also don't really have service where I live anymore. Or if not cops at least have some people manning some of these stations. And maybe actually collect fares. VERY easy to avoid paying on the red line for example.
In today's general ''cops are bad'' and ''cops are intimidating'' environment the RTA cops aren't visible. This goes back pre-George Floyd. Now RTA has or were supposed to have civilian ''ambassadors'' check fare cards? Who would want this job?

Look at what happened to the HealthLine and Red Line; random fare checks by RTA cops done away with because, among other reasons, they were ''intimidating''. A Cleveland muni judge ruled that random fare checks was unconstitutional; of course RTA didn't challenge baseless ruling...lol. Now, as you state, one can easily not pay the fare on the Red Line. Politics and transit don't mix well either, especially in Cleveland.

One of the best features of the HealthLine, once the highest rated U.S. BRT line, was eliminated due to local politics.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Ohio > Cleveland

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top