Why does everyone seem so down on Cleveland? (Canton, Massillon: homes, high school)

[twange]

Originally Posted by xwideopenskyx

Absolutely true! Great post! I've spent a combined 30 years living in Cleveland and it's suburbs and decided that it was time to move out of state 2 years ago. Leaving Cleveland has been beneficial in many ways. Most of all, I am no longer jaded, negative or cynical but filled with happiness, joy and hope for the future.

It's funny you say that...it's starting to happen to me as well. I still have my negative moments to be sure, but they aren't happening as often. My moments of depression and discouragement only last for short periods instead of days or weeks. I'm learning to say nice things about people and situations instead of always finding flaws. This is a hard habit to break. Now, I'm not talking about ignoring negative possibilities and acting like a happy sunflower all the time - I generally don't trust people who don't have dark moments - but there's a difference between HEALTHY cynicism and a constant projection of rotten bitterness. I knew that I was becoming crusty but I had no idea how bad it had gotten. Even my wife was starting to tire of my act And if you're a sports fan...my goodness, being a Cleveland fan can be tiring and frankly too much to bear, really. I still follow all of the teams, but I'm not directly bombarded with the annual cycle of unreasonable optimism immediately followed by crushing disappointment and anger. I'm seeing things a bit clearer.

It's very sad to say, but all of my friends who have left Cleveland the past two years report the same thing. Granted, you are who you are, and changing locations won't suddenly alter your entire personality but it really does open you up in amazing ways.

If I ever return to Cleveland as a resident, it will be with a righteous sword of change and energy that the town has never seen. Heads will roll. Leaders will suffer

[Alaskapat528]

Originally Posted by twange

My wife and I are actually heading up to Cleveland for a long visit with friends and family this week. I can't wait to drive/ride the rapid around and check out some of the changes over the past year. I'm very happy where I'm living now, but I'll always be a Cleveland kid. That's why it p*sses me off so much to see it struggle. For those of you thinking of moving there, that is is exactly what the city needs! NEW BLOOD

Terrible leadership in that city

You are abolutely right about the terrible leadership in Cleveland; has been that way for years and years. That I believe has certainly brought the City down. I am originally from Cleveland and just got back last week from visiting family there. It makes me sick to see how the areas have decayed and all of the job loss. We are seriously considering moving back but it would be to Southern or Southeast Ohio. Enjoy your trip!

[saraperez]

Three things I've noticed about Clevelanders or former Clevelanders on this thread.

1. Most have talked about poor leadership.

I must really live in a different country or something. I was under the impression that leadership in Cleveland is as it is out here in Portland--elected via the popular vote system. If the leadership is so "terrible" work on changing in. Then again, maybe we're just a bunch of hippies out here in Portland.

2. A few have talked about being Cleveland making them negative, cynical and/or bitter people.

Wow, really? A city can turn you into this? Maybe it's perspective. And cyclical. I live in the one of the cloudiest, rainiest places (Pacific NW)--things you would think would make a person "negative", "cyinical" or "bitter", yet I'm not. It's probably not Cleveland that's made you that way. As far as your perspective changing when you left, it could just be that you left to pursue a greater/better opportunity and that has you more satisified in life.

3. Complaints about the terrible sports teams.

I have never heard so much bruhaha about sports teams. What gives? Maybe I'm just nonchalent because Portland only has one professional sports team and just that has been pretty much an embarrassment since the early 90's. Besides it could be WAY worse -- you could NOT have a sports team. Or you could have a team like ours in the late 90's up until a few years ago (the Blazers) and have every nightly news at least once a month cover stories of Blazer arrests--yeah that was really fabulous for our morale.

You don't have to be fans of a team where you live. For example, my hubby and I are Red Sox fans (born and bread long before any wins!) and my son is a die hard Braves fan (probably mostly though b/c TBS always plays Braves games, so that's what he's able to watch!).

Anyway, there's my two cents.

[Alaskapat528]

Originally Posted by saraperez

Three things I've noticed about Clevelanders or former Clevelanders on this thread.

1. Most have talked about poor leadership.

I must really live in a different country or something. I was under the impression that leadership in Cleveland is as it is out here in Portland--elected via the popular vote system. If the leadership is so "terrible" work on changing in. Then again, maybe we're just a bunch of hippies out here in Portland.

2. A few have talked about being Cleveland making them negative, cynical and/or bitter people.

Wow, really? A city can turn you into this? Maybe it's perspective. And cyclical. I live in the one of the cloudiest, rainiest places (Pacific NW)--things you would think would make a person "negative", "cyinical" or "bitter", yet I'm not. It's probably not Cleveland that's made you that way. As far as your perspective changing when you left, it could just be that you left to pursue a greater/better opportunity and that has you more satisified in life.

3. Complaints about the terrible sports teams.

I have never heard so much bruhaha about sports teams. What gives? Maybe I'm just nonchalent because Portland only has one professional sports team and just that has been pretty much an embarrassment since the early 90's. Besides it could be WAY worse -- you could NOT have a sports team. Or you could have a team like ours in the late 90's up until a few years ago (the Blazers) and have every nightly news at least once a month cover stories of Blazer arrests--yeah that was really fabulous for our morale.

You don't have to be fans of a team where you live. For example, my hubby and I are Red Sox fans (born and bread long before any wins!) and my son is a die hard Braves fan (probably mostly though b/c TBS always plays Braves games, so that's what he's able to watch!).

Anyway, there's my two cents.

I think sometimes people become bitter and cynical due to financial struggles, so much job loss and foreclosures in Cleveland. Leadership: Just like anywhere else, people listen to and believe the politicians, then when they take office they do the opposite. So who is to ever say about the voting in of these incompetents?

Cleveland has some of the most dedicated and loyal fans to the Cleveland Indians and the Browns that I have ever seen.

I was born and raised in Cleveland so I know what I'm talking about. Poor leadership played a big role in losing companies there and letting the neighborhoods decay.

We currently live in Alaska and are going to move back to either Southern or Southeastern Ohio to be closer to family. I do believe Cleveland will eventually be a "come back" city if they can get any decent, truthful leadership in. However, that doesn't seem to be found in any city or state.

[saraperez]

Originally Posted by Alaskapat528

I do believe Cleveland will eventually be a "come back" city if they can get any decent, truthful leadership in. However, that doesn't seem to be found in any city or state.

I agree. And I also believe we can become a "come back" country if we get some "decent, truthful leadership" into our national offices as well.

[Alaskapat528]

Originally Posted by saraperez

i agree. And i also believe we can become a "come back" country if we get some "decent, truthful leadership" into our national offices as well. :d

amen!!!!

[twange]

Originally Posted by saraperez

Three things I've noticed about Clevelanders or former Clevelanders on this thread.

1. Most have talked about poor leadership.

I must really live in a different country or something. I was under the impression that leadership in Cleveland is as it is out here in Portland--elected via the popular vote system. If the leadership is so "terrible" work on changing in. Then again, maybe we're just a bunch of hippies out here in Portland.

Part of the problem with Cleveland is that their city council is too big for the current size of the city. There are currently 21 members, each representing and elected by a designated ward in the city of Cleveland. The city currently has a population of about 438,000. By way of comparison, the city of Portland has 5 members(counting the mayor) with a current population of about 568,000. In addition, Portland operates on a "city commission government", whereas Cleveland is a "mayor-council government" . The City of Austin, Texas has 7 council members(including the mayor) with a current population of 743,000, each elected by the entire city. Columbus, Ohio has 7 with a population of 733,000. Cleveland's model is simply out-dated and over-bloated for it's needs. They need to streamline the government.

And to clarify, you do not get to vote for any Cleveland's municipal offices unless you live in the City of Cleveland. Not the the suburbs. Or the inner ring suburbs(Lakewood, Euclid, Cleve Hts, etc...) Greater Cleveland, which includes Cuyahoga, Geauga, Lake, Lorain and Medina counties, has a population of about 2.2 million. Most of the people who live in these counties identify "Cleveland" as where they're from, but they can't vote for the mayor, city council etc. So if only less than 1/4 of Greater Cleveland can vote, and 23% of these people live below the poverty line, it's easy to see why change is slow coming. Most Clevelanders can't vote for "change" even if they wanted to do so.

Originally Posted by saraperez

2. A few have talked about being Cleveland making them negative, cynical and/or bitter people.

Wow, really? A city can turn you into this? Maybe it's perspective. And cyclical. I live in the one of the cloudiest, rainiest places (Pacific NW)--things you would think would make a person "negative", "cyinical" or "bitter", yet I'm not. It's probably not Cleveland that's made you that way. As far as your perspective changing when you left, it could just be that you left to pursue a greater/better opportunity and that has you more satisified in life.

Absolutely environment has an impact on behavioral characteristics. It's not that simple obviously and of course it isn't the only factor but it certainly plays a part. In my previous post, I tried to minimize the weather issue since different people prefer various climates and some like cloudy weather over sunny and warm. The problem with Cleveland is it's inferiority complex, low expectations, apathy and suffocating inertia. As I said, 3 generations of people have endured heavy criticism, national ridicule and humiliation and much economical stress . Everyone from about 55 and younger will understand this dynamic. It's really part of the culture there, sort of like how New Englanders are perceived as being reserved, or NYers being rude, Californians being flaky etc...some of it is stereo-types, but a lot of it is rooted in truth.

Originally Posted by saraperez

3. Complaints about the terrible sports teams.

I have never heard so much bruhaha about sports teams. What gives? Maybe I'm just nonchalent because Portland only has one professional sports team and just that has been pretty much an embarrassment since the early 90's. Besides it could be WAY worse -- you could NOT have a sports team. Or you could have a team like ours in the late 90's up until a few years ago (the Blazers) and have every nightly news at least once a month cover stories of Blazer arrests--yeah that was really fabulous for our morale.

You don't have to be fans of a team where you live. For example, my hubby and I are Red Sox fans (born and bread long before any wins!) and my son is a die hard Braves fan (probably mostly though b/c TBS always plays Braves games, so that's what he's able to watch!).

Anyway, there's my two cents.

If you plan on living in Cleveland, you'll need to understand the relationship of the city to its teams. You don't have to become a fan, but you'll need to respect this aspect of the city's personality.

Pro Sports are very important in Cleveland. The Browns go back 60 years, the Indians 107, and the Cavaliers 38. No matter what's happening in the real world, sports teams often provide the city with their only chance of outshining places like NYC, LA, Chicago, Miami. They are a reminder of the city's past glory as an important early and mid 20th century manufacturing city. And the torture is real. No city with three major franchises has gone as long without a championship. I am 40 years old. Nothing yet Just reading this board will show you that many folks think a major championship will magically reverse the city's fortunes. I don't agree with this, but if it improves the self-esteem of it's citizens, well that could only help the city.

[xwideopenskyx]

Originally Posted by saraperez

I'm coming in just 13 days so my questions will probably really start to be piling in on this board!

Why does everyone seem so negative about Cleveland? I know these boards can get pretty negative and can kind of scare new residents (like me!) away a little bit. What gives?

From where I'm sitting Cleveland seems like a great place to live. Of course it has its' poorer and more decaying areas . . . every city does.

Anyway, any help would be great. (And yes, I know about urbanohio.com - and I utilize that board too!)

If you have to ask this question, sounds to me that you haven't completed your homework. Did you at least visit Cleveland once? I've read your other posts and I see that you have a family in tow. You owe it to them to at least check it out. There are plenty of cities in this country where you and your family can live and thrive in an urban setting, sorry to say Cleveland isn't one of them. That is my opinion and you may disagree with it, but then again I know the city well since I lived there for 30 years.

[xwideopenskyx]

Originally Posted by saraperez

2. A few have talked about being Cleveland making them negative, cynical and/or bitter people.

Wow, really? A city can turn you into this? Maybe it's perspective. And cyclical. I live in the one of the cloudiest, rainiest places (Pacific NW)--things you would think would make a person "negative", "cyinical" or "bitter", yet I'm not. It's probably not Cleveland that's made you that way. As far as your perspective changing when you left, it could just be that you left to pursue a greater/better opportunity and that has you more satisified in life.

LOL.......well of course you can't blame a city for one's attitude! BUT....Happiness is not only internal, it is a balance of internal/external factors. Let me ask you this question: If you were to drive through a neighborhood full off boarded up crackhouses would you feel happy or sad? What if the same place was your old neighborhood where you were born and raised and have many fond memories of, would your heart break? Just a little? I wish that weather was the only issue on Cleveland's plate.
My parents and their generation did very well in Cleveland, my brothers and I did not. Most of my brothers lost their well paid jobs at the steel mills due to layoffs. It would have been ideal for me to remain in my hometown and purchase an affordable home and live out my life there but the sounds of gunshots and police helicopters shining spotlights in my driveway changed my mind.

[saraperez]

Originally Posted by twange

If you plan on living in Cleveland, you'll need to understand the relationship of the city to its teams. You don't have to become a fan, but you'll need to respect this aspect of the city's personality.

Pro Sports are very important in Cleveland. The Browns go back 60 years, the Indians 107, and the Cavaliers 38. No matter what's happening in the real world, sports teams often provide the city with their only chance of outshining places like NYC, LA, Chicago, Miami. They are a reminder of the city's past glory as an important early and mid 20th century manufacturing city. And the torture is real. No city with three major franchises has gone as long without a championship. I am 40 years old. Nothing yet Just reading this board will show you that many folks think a major championship will magically reverse the city's fortunes. I don't agree with this, but if it improves the self-esteem of it's citizens, well that could only help the city.

I feel like a crappy Portlander now! We're very involved in sports out here, but it's more about doing rather than watching. It really seems like Clevelanders identify themselves with their sports teams. That really isn't part of our culture out here.

And the only closest next city of teams is Seattle. And that's iffy--I can walk down the streets when the Red Sox are in town and be wearing a Sox jersey and get "way to go" or "Go Boston" or "Go Sox" all day long! Even sitting along the first base line at Safeco, wearing a Red Sox jersey-there's a sea of us (and that's along home team's dugout!)

I did tell my husband that one of us would have to become an Indians fan, he gave me a dirty look.

Twange you keep making some excellent posts, they're really insightful and useful in answering my questions! Thanx.