Lorain is a Joke (Cleveland, Elyria: roughest, homes, neighborhood)

[hillside]

Originally Posted by WeSoHood

blah blah blah... i'm just saying at least we can agree both cities are lost as of right now. no need to get into a political debate

blah blah blah you know i'm right about the race card thing it's a truce.

now we can talk about moving to lorain...

cle440, don't do it!

[BelieveInCleve]

Hillside, you amaze me. No matter how many times you get proved wrong you still sit there and act like you have a valid point or something to argue about. The fact of the matter is, you have no idea what you are talking about and are just afraid to admit that your wrong. This thread was not supposed to be about Hamilton, noone here is saying Hamilton is a no-crime suburb, but you all of a sudden come in here and try to say its worse than Lorain...you know little (if anything) about the Cleveland area, especially Lorain. You even said yourself youve been here 1 time, and at the most for less than an hour, you know nothing of Cleveland either, I can recall when you said you didnt even know what St. Clair is...you know nothing. So honestly I cant take anything you say seriously. You have no right to even speak on anyplace up here. Ive lived up here most my life, and I lived in the Cincinnati area for over 8 months in the past. And Hamilton is really rough with its 90% white population, very low black and hispanic population, average poverty and everything else, and #1 best urban school district in the state...

I said I was white like 2 times in the past, and never said I was full white. Lets just say city-data isnt the least racist place... Though I dont like getting into personal details, I was raised in poverty by my mom as a single parent and she was white, my dad was full puerto rican and I barely knew him growing up. The neighborhoods I grew up in were almost all black or puerto rican, dont sit there and act like I dont know what Im talking about. I had a lot of family and friends that were killed or overdosed on drugs from the neighborhood, and others who are serving 15+ year prison sentences. I dont think Ive ever flipped flopped on anything. "Lorain aint hard" you cant be serious...what "proof" do you want? Ill bring up anything, Lorain had 9 murders last year, there were bad gang wars in the early-mid 90s and Lorain Middle and Admiral King were rated as the some of the worst and most violent middle/high schools in Ohio. It has a poverty rate of 26% and has lost over 14,000 jobs just in manufacturing. One of the largest steel mills in the nation is located here. This place has been infested with gangs for over 20 years. Its worse than Hamilton, if youve ever been here you would know that. Im moving back because I have to, Im unemployed and have no money as always, everybodies not rich...But as I was saying, this thread is about Lorain, which you know nothing about, so you have no business even posting in here.

[Furnier]

I'm not going to get involved in a race fight or a "which is worse Hamilton or Lorain" argument. That's a pointless argument anyway. What does the winner get?

Anyhow, I'm somewhat familiar with Lorain and in my life it was EASILY the most rundown, ugly, and frightening place I've ever had to spend a significant amount of time in.

From 1991-2000 I lived in Vermilion just west of Lorain. My family did most of our shopping and 'entertainment' in the Lorain area. For several years in the early to mid 90's I was one of the managers of the Discount Drug Mart on Colorado. I travelled through that city everyday and saw the blight spreading before my eyes. My customers were in large part drug addicted welfare cases that 'lived' in the projects in the neighborhood adjacent to the store. A major source of their income was to shoplift heavily from our store and sell the loot for half price in the projects to buy crack. I saw mothers training their 4 year olds how to shoplift.

If I were to type every depressing story about this time of my life here it would literally take me hours. There was a SIGNIFICANT gang problem then and I'm sure it's only gotten worse. Two of my employees had relatives on the Lorain Police. One was a member of the Drug Task Force and the other was in the canine unit. I got first hand stories from them that were truly frightening and depressing. Lorain was sort of a 'meeting point' for the drug gangs from Cleveland and Detroit and had a heavy presence from both of them.

I had people stabbed in my parking lot. I had to send two decoy cars to make my bank deposits because we were constantly followed before I FINALLY convinced our corporate stooges to set up an armored pickup for our deposits. I drove that stretch of Colorado and West 21st for many years to and from work and I feared for my life. I can't tell you how relieved I was the day I got promoted and transferred to the Ashland store.

I have seen EVERY part of Lorain. From the Lake to Cooper Foster to the Sheffield Lake limits to Vermilion. It's horrible. I hated it there. It was an ugly dying city with very grim depressed people in the 90's. I can only imagine what it must be like now.

I saw all the schools close. I saw the hospital close and merge with the inferior hospital on the west side. I watched as the streets decayed and were never repaired. I saw the Ford plant close. I watched as the steel mills became a ghost of the past. I hate badmouthing cities because Lord knows my hometown (Sandusky) is riddled with problems as well, but I literally have nothing good to say about Lorain.

Doug

[hillside]

Originally Posted by Cle440

Hillside, you amaze me. No matter how many times you get proved wrong you still sit there and act like you have a valid point or something to argue about. The fact of the matter is, you have no idea what you are talking about and are just afraid to admit that your wrong. This thread was not supposed to be about Hamilton, noone here is saying Hamilton is a no-crime suburb, but you all of a sudden come in here and try to say its worse than Lorain...you know little (if anything) about the Cleveland area, especially Lorain. You even said yourself youve been here 1 time, and at the most for less than an hour, you know nothing of Cleveland either, I can recall when you said you didnt even know what St. Clair is...you know nothing. So honestly I cant take anything you say seriously. You have no right to even speak on anyplace up here. Ive lived up here most my life, and I lived in the Cincinnati area for over 8 months in the past. And Hamilton is really rough with its 90% white population, very low black and hispanic population, average poverty and everything else, and #1 best urban school district in the state...

I said I was white like 2 times in the past, and never said I was full white. Lets just say city-data isnt the least racist place... Though I dont like getting into personal details, I was raised in poverty by my mom as a single parent and she was white, my dad was full puerto rican and I barely knew him growing up. The neighborhoods I grew up in were almost all black or puerto rican, dont sit there and act like I dont know what Im talking about. I had a lot of family and friends that were killed or overdosed on drugs from the neighborhood, and others who are serving 15+ year prison sentences. I dont think Ive ever flipped flopped on anything. "Lorain aint hard" you cant be serious...what "proof" do you want? Ill bring up anything, Lorain had 9 murders last year, there were bad gang wars in the early-mid 90s and Lorain Middle and Admiral King were rated as the some of the worst and most violent middle/high schools in Ohio. It has a poverty rate of 26% and has lost over 14,000 jobs just in manufacturing. One of the largest steel mills in the nation is located here. This place has been infested with gangs for over 20 years. Its worse than Hamilton, if youve ever been here you would know that. Im moving back because I have to, Im unemployed and have no money as always, everybodies not rich...But as I was saying, this thread is about Lorain, which you know nothing about, so you have no business even posting in here.

what did you prove? that lorain has a high poverty rate? i wanna know what's the crime rate. i've been asking you for a few posts now. to prove is to express proof, which you apparently have none of.

what you know about the nati? you said you never seen one hispanic in hamilton. anybody from cincinnati can tell you that there are entire hispanic neighborhoods in hamilton, and the presence of hispanics is can't-miss. that didn't look good at all for you.

this thing you have with relating crime to race is really disturbing. look at baltimore. the rate of arrest for black males and white males are very similar. in some places, there are ''white thugs'' too. look at buffalo.

the best urban school district thing is a JOKE. have you ever looked at the criterion for the rankings? hamilton has the lowest graduation rate in southwest ohio. the no-child-left-behind bill was signed at hamilton high. why would the president sign such an important piece of legislation at a high school in hamilton, ohio? for all of bush's follies, this was actually a masterful political strategy to a terrible bill.

hamilton - dying factory town, grossly underfunded and crumbling schools, coup to the (out-of) working man that has only dreamed of college, but with better schools, his son and daughter might be able to fulfill that promise.

point - you don't sign a landmark bill to reform inner city education at/in an excellent, good, or even average school/city. the school and the city both have to be bad.

i don't know why you have to get so flustered about hamilton having more crime. it's not a good thing for hamilton, and since lorain is your home, and may be again soon, you should hope that with the layoffs, things don't get as bad up there as they have in hamilton.

oh yea...i NEVER, EVER said i didn't know where st. clair is. i have family off st. clair.

[hillside]

Originally Posted by Furnier

It's horrible. I hated it there. It was an ugly dying city with very grim depressed people in the 90's. I can only imagine what it must be like now.

I saw all the schools close. I saw the hospital close and merge with the inferior hospital on the west side. I watched as the streets decayed and were never repaired. I saw the Ford plant close. I watched as the steel mills became a ghost of the past. I hate badmouthing cities because Lord knows my hometown (Sandusky) is riddled with problems as well, but I literally have nothing good to say about Lorain.

Doug

lol, not trying to compete AT ALL, but this part sounds like hamilton, down to the eastside hospital closing! just replace ford with beckett and the steel mills with fisher body and armco.

[BelieveInCleve]

I showed stats that Lorain is worse than Hamilton in every category except crime, only because there was not accurate crime stats for Lorain, but I finally found some. This took me a little while. I got these straight off crimereports (monthx12), and filled in the blanks with other real stats that I found from Lorain PD and a few other places, its based on 2007 with some other stats from 06-now, these are based on rate per 100k compared to Hamiltons rate off city-data (which looks pretty accurate):

(Murder, Rape, Robbery, Assault, Burglary, Theft, Auto Theft, Arson)
Lorain(2007): 13, 139.1, 347.8, 695.7, 2087, 4782.6, 550.7, 72.5
Hamilton(2006): 1.6, 111.3, 304.8, 378.9, 1696.3, 4668, 746.6, 58

Are you happy now? As you can see, Lorain is higher (sometimes by a lot) in every category, except auto theft. I dont know the exact formula to get the city-data crime index, but based on those numbers compared to Hamiltons index (which is 624.6), Lorains crime index should be around 780. If you want to know the raw numbers multiply the rate times .69 (69,000 population) for Lorain. You wanted stats and you got them, you can argue all you want but the stats are right there. I dont see how this argument is helping either of the cities, but trust me Im not exaggerating one bit about Lorain. I love Lorain and this is where I grew up, but its a rough city to put it lightly. Its not like this is a surprise to anyone in or around Lorain. And yes you did say you didnt know what St. Clair was, this is exactly what you said "I don't know how it is up in St.Clair or whatever..." off my thread: http://www.city-data.com/forum/cleve...micides-3.html ,comment 29. What do you have to say now?

[hillside]

Originally Posted by Cle440

I showed stats that Lorain is worse than Hamilton in every category except crime, only because there was not accurate crime stats for Lorain, but I finally found some. This took me a little while. I got these straight off crimereports (monthx12), and filled in the blanks with other real stats that I found from Lorain PD and a few other places, its based on 2007 with some other stats from 06-now, these are based on rate per 100k compared to Hamiltons rate off city-data (which looks pretty accurate):

(Murder, Rape, Robbery, Assault, Burglary, Theft, Auto Theft, Arson)
Lorain(2007): 13, 139.1, 347.8, 695.7, 2087, 4782.6, 550.7, 72.5
Hamilton(2006): 1.6, 111.3, 304.8, 378.9, 1696.3, 4668, 746.6, 58

Are you happy now? As you can see, Lorain is higher (sometimes by a lot) in every category, except auto theft. I dont know the exact formula to get the city-data crime index, but based on those numbers compared to Hamiltons index (which is 624.6), Lorains crime index should be around 780. If you want to know the raw numbers multiply the rate times .69 (69,000 population) for Lorain. You wanted stats and you got them, you can argue all you want but the stats are right there. I dont see how this argument is helping either of the cities, but trust me Im not exaggerating one bit about Lorain. I love Lorain and this is where I grew up, but its a rough city to put it lightly. Its not like this is a surprise to anyone in or around Lorain. And yes you did say you didnt know what St. Clair was, this is exactly what you said "I don't know how it is up in St.Clair or whatever..." off my thread: http://www.city-data.com/forum/cleve...micides-3.html ,comment 29. What do you have to say now?

you're trying too hard. you have too much to prove. you got the stats from a "few other places" ? as i read that sentence, it was as if i could hear your voice trail off when you said the ever-so-ambiguous "few other places". how many places have lorain, ohio crime stats?? if it's so many sources you found, why did it take you so long? (pause) i'll look into these ''stats" of yours, but as far as st. clair, read what i said. "i don't know how it is up in st. clair or whatever" means what it says. i don't live up there and never have, so i'll never really know what kind of madness goes on day-to-day. but i've been on st. clair and in the surrounding neighborhoods. it's rough. disenfranchised. an unfair place to live. you pretend as if it's a shock. think about it. it's historically black. how could it not be taking the full brunt of the perpetual missteps of the city of cleveland?

[BelieveInCleve]

Originally Posted by hillside

what you know about the nati? you said you never seen one hispanic in hamilton. anybody from cincinnati can tell you that there are entire hispanic neighborhoods in hamilton, and the presence of hispanics is can't-miss. that didn't look good at all for you.

this thing you have with relating crime to race is really disturbing. look at baltimore. the rate of arrest for black males and white males are very similar. in some places, there are ''white thugs'' too. look at buffalo.

Oh yeah, I forgot to talk about this. About Hamilton having "entire hispanic neighborhoods" I only have one thing to say to you, you have got to be joking...

Cincinnati has a virtually nonexistent hispanic community, but its still not understandable how anyone even from Cincinnati could think that Hamilton has a lot of hispanics. Im hispanic, I was born in the Near-Westside in Cleveland (hispanic neighborhood), and grew up mostly in Lorain (highest hispanic% in Ohio) I know what hispanics look like, and I saw little (if any) hispanics in Hamilton, or really even Cincinnati. Last I heard 2.5% is not considered "a lot", and even if it has doubled in 8 years...(not likely) then its still not a lot. According to the census maps, the tract with the highest hispanic% in Hamilton is 9.7%...are you serious? There are tracts on the Eastside of Elyria that are 10% black, they arent considered "black neighorhoods" by any means, there actually considered all white by most. And yes, race has a lot to do with crime rate and who commits crimes. Its been shown that blacks and hispanics are much more likely to be in poverty and commit crimes, thats pretty obvious. Check those stats I gave you all you want, their legit.

[hillside]

Originally Posted by Cle440

Oh yeah, I forgot to talk about this. About Hamilton having "entire hispanic neighborhoods" I only have one thing to say to you, you have got to be joking...

Cincinnati has a virtually nonexistent hispanic community, but its still not understandable how anyone even from Cincinnati could think that Hamilton has a lot of hispanics. Im hispanic, I was born in the Near-Westside in Cleveland (hispanic neighborhood), and grew up mostly in Lorain (highest hispanic% in Ohio) I know what hispanics look like, and I saw little (if any) hispanics in Hamilton, or really even Cincinnati. Last I heard 2.5% is not considered "a lot", and even if it has doubled in 8 years...(not likely) then its still not a lot. According to the census maps, the tract with the highest hispanic% in Hamilton is 9.7%...are you serious? There are tracts on the Eastside of Elyria that are 10% black, they arent considered "black neighorhoods" by any means, there actually considered all white by most. And yes, race has a lot to do with crime rate and who commits crimes. Its been shown that blacks and hispanics are much more likely to be in poverty and commit crimes, thats pretty obvious. Check those stats I gave you all you want, their legit.

lol, ok cle440, whatever you say.

[drb85650]

Butting in here....never lived in Ohio, much less Lorain. My post "48 hours in Cleveland" followed with '48 hours in Cleveland, the review" will tell you how much of a total novice I am on this area. this state!
We visited Lorain, saw St.Joseph Hospital where the wife was born, looked at a house we'd found on the 'net off 5th and Hamilton area. Drove thru downtown, ate at Petes Family Diner, went to the Lake front beach/park. Stopped at the McDonalds off Kansas at the foot of a bridge, looked at another house across from the municipal boat ramp(?), right by the police station...so we covered some of the town, not all, but not just the pretty houses by the park.
If I went by only the opinions I have read here for the past several months, I'd have been terrified to darken the city limits sign. Instead, we found a community where most of the houses showed alot of pride in ownership. We found friendly people, reasonable prices, good food. Downtown was depressed, yes. Boarded up buildings, a fiasco over a drawbridge(fixed yet?). But I guess we missed the places talked about in this thread. Sadly, Cleveland area is depressed, boarded up buildings, houses...we saw alot of that. But we also found a beautiful city, friendly people, and neighborhoods with people outside, visiting...
From a visitors point of view, we'd come back in a heartbeat....Lorain, Cleveland...either one. Every metro area has bad parts, crime, racism(sadly). Just like your local place of worship...imperfect people gathering together, making the best of what they have and dealing with it. And if it's really necessary to know....we are a totally white greyhaired couple in our late 50's, driving thru these areas in a rented Gran Marquis to boot...talk about obvious tourist and easily marked. Having lived in a large metro area, mixed neighborhoods, crime abundant, I find that fear is generally more in what we've been lead to believe, our prejuidices, than in the actual person of any color, any creed we are passing opinion upon.
done butting in....thanks for the crate to stand on and we loved your state.