Cleveland Crime: 2009 (felony, safety, move to)

[OhioUberAlles]

Originally Posted by GDK94

if the bible was law we would be living under a dictatorship and be stoned and killed for every little thing we do. we would be forced to read the bible until we die of boredom. people would have NO rights and we would live like barbarians. millions of people would be killed for working on the "sabbath" day. it would be crazy! what sane person would want to live like the biblical days, when it was ok to marry kids(and still is in the middle east), have a whole town stone you for doing petty *****, and everyone was poor except law makers. imagine how the world would be!!

If the Bible were the law we would have no centralized government, every man would head his own family and handle teaching his family the scripture and gospel. The law would be administered with a fair, even, and just hand, with the victims/wronged deciding what punishment should be placed upon those who wronged them, not uninvolved third parties (state/government). Why should the state receive a fine because somebody stole your car and robbed you? The state wasn't robbed...

Unless you plan on committing grievous crimes against fellow citizens, such a rape, robbery, kidnapping, murder, etc, or a few select crimes against society as a whole (trying to convert people away from God and down the path of false gods/pagan idols) then there wouldn't be any grounds upon which you would be executed. Does the Law scare you? Do you aspire to harm your fellow citizens?

If you refrain from working on the Sabbath you will surely be blessed during the days you are working. Imagine if you closed your shop on Saturday (the true Sabbath) but opened on Sunday! How many shops are open on Sunday? You would see an increase in business!

Imagine being the only barber in a small town that is open on Sunday.

[GDK94]

there are many more "grounds" upon which you would be executed. the bible says (not sure which verse) that whoever works on sabbath day will surely be executed. so i can be mowing my grass on saturday and all of a sudden im getting boulders hurled at my head. look, all i gotta say is if you want to live like thebiblical days, then maybe you should file for citizenship of Iraq.

[WeSoHood]

This thread was originally for posting crimes that happen in 2009. Can we stick to topic?

[mikemeatball]

Originally Posted by WeSoHood

This thread was originally for posting crimes that happen in 2009. Can we stick to topic?

Don't you see the obvious connection between dysregulation of moral climate and upsurge of violence?

Just sitting there and counting number, without questioning reason and finding the solution, will do what good to our community?

[Chef Boyardee]

Originally Posted by OhioUberAlles

There was no need to describe in detail what Deut 22 says, I'm well aware of the chapter. For that matter I'm well aware of the entire book of Deuteronomy. For that matter I'm well aware of basically the entire Bible.

You are accurate in some regards but wrong in others, likely due to your lack of knowledge of Hebrew.

When you presume that a man has sex with a virgin, consensually, you are correct in the presumption but the implication you made by including presumably was a bit unnecessary. If you read it in the Hebrew you'll see that Deut 22 basically doesn't say a man can rape an unbethrothed woman and thus be able to marry her. It says if a man seduces/lies with/knows, an unbethrothed woman, he has to marry her. A woman is not obligated to marry a rapist.

Also I believe the logic behind stoning a woman to death if she claims she was raped but did not resist is that it is possible she is merely lying about being raped to cover for the fact that she may very well have been cheating on her husband. That's a case where the wronged party would make the call (the husband).

As for having sex with a virgin hoping you will be able to marry her, if the father doesn't approve of you you're basically dead, since you cannot restore the girl's virginity and you've made it considerably difficult for her to be able to marry, at least to be able to marry anybody of quality. So if you just jump the gun, have sex with a young virgin, and her father thinks you're a crud, he is in his rights to have you put to death.

You don't need a PHD in Hebrew to understand Deuteronomy 22

" 28`When a man findeth a damsel, a virgin who is not betrothed, and hath caught her, and lain with her, and they have been found,

29then hath the man who is lying with her given to the father of the damsel fifty silverlings, and to him she is for a wife; because that he hath humbled her, he is not able to send her away all his days." (YLT)

[OhioUberAlles]

Originally Posted by Chef Boyardee

You don't need a PHD in Hebrew to understand Deuteronomy 22

" 28`When a man findeth a damsel, a virgin who is not betrothed, and hath caught her, and lain with her, and they have been found,

29then hath the man who is lying with her given to the father of the damsel fifty silverlings, and to him she is for a wife; because that he hath humbled her, he is not able to send her away all his days." (YLT)

Assuming you want to trust the translation is accurate and nothing was lost in the translation. What language do you think the Bible was originally written in, modern English? Have you had a situation where things were lost in translation? If I told a Frenchman to communicate to his fellows that I am "riding shotgun" would they understand that means I am in the passenger seat or would they expect me to straddle a shotgun and try to ride it like a horse?

Or if I was talking to somebody who has never even heard of Cleveland and I say "Tower City" would they know I'm just talking about a shopping mall building/complex or would they expect an entire city made of towers or an entire city with all residences and government offices contained within one tower?

If you don't understand the culture from which the original language comes, a true and genuinely accurate translation/understanding becomes very difficult.



Raping a virgin is not a biblically sanctioned way to enter into a marriage. This is a common charge Muslims make against Christianity.


The Old Testament and Rape : Commentary on Deuteronomy 22:28-29

[Chef Boyardee]

Originally Posted by OhioUberAlles

Assuming you want to trust the translation is accurate and nothing was lost in the translation. What language do you think the Bible was originally written in, modern English? Have you had a situation where things were lost in translation? If I told a Frenchman to communicate to his fellows that I am "riding shotgun" would they understand that means I am in the passenger seat or would they expect me to straddle a shotgun and try to ride it like a horse?

Or if I was talking to somebody who has never even heard of Cleveland and I say "Tower City" would they know I'm just talking about a shopping mall building/complex or would they expect an entire city made of towers or an entire city with all residences and government offices contained within one tower?

If you don't understand the culture from which the original language comes, a true and genuinely accurate translation/understanding becomes very difficult.



Raping a virgin is not a biblically sanctioned way to enter into a marriage. This is a common charge Muslims make against Christianity.


The Old Testament and Rape : Commentary on Deuteronomy 22:28-29

Oh please! Young's Literal Translation is well respected. If you have no respect for that, then you seem incompetent.

[OhioUberAlles]

Originally Posted by Chef Boyardee

Oh please! Young's Literal Translation is well respected. If you have no respect for that, then you seem incompetent.

You responded far too fast to have even examined the link I provided, a link which shows words in Hebrew and shows how they are used elsewhere throughout the bible.

If that's the best translation that Young was able to come up with, then he's pretty sad.

As for it being well respected, well respected by who? Saps and suckers who wouldn't know proper scripture if it kicked them in the mouth?


Incompetent? Hardly... What I am is serious about having as best an understanding about scripture as possible. I don't defend one translation over another as though it was my own child. It seems some people have a fetish for one translation and any criticism about that translation will be met with an outright declaration of war.


Ever try translating a sentence from Spanish to English, straight word for word, while ignoring sentence structure, word order, placement of words, etc... What's the result?

[airics]

Hello, back to topic please... It's about crime in Cleveland

[Chef Boyardee]

Originally Posted by mikemeatball

Don't you see the obvious connection between dysregulation of moral climate and upsurge of violence?

Just sitting there and counting number, without questioning reason and finding the solution, will do what good to our community?

My point about rape was, girls today encourage rape and they haven't always. The "community" that Deuteronomy 22 describes is one where the kind of behavior that contributes to our modern day rape epidemics is so strongly discouraged, that rape would be much less frequent. Of course, certain liberties are surrendered, like hot pants and dating.

The capital punishment imposed for rape is certainly a deterrent, but today we still impose long prison sentences and life long consequences. What we don't provide today, is a society that encourages good behavior and discourages bad. For example, we encourage lust and luring behavior; we don't discourage it. In fact, when confronted with a society that does discourage lust, we label them as "Fascist" and make a kind of "crusade" out of changing them. It's as if, Hugh Hefner is our guide

Modern Day Self Help Advice Column For Men

Hugh Hefner’s 7 Step Guide To Being A Ladies’ Man | Alex Shalman . com