are you staying OR are you going? (Cleveland, Shaker Heights: crime rate, how much)

[xwideopenskyx]

Originally Posted by LewLew

Cleveland has the 4th best orchestra in the world. It has one of the largest park systems in the country. Our Playhouse Square Center is the second largest preforming arts center in the US, with NY's Lincoln Center being the first. The Pro Football Hall of Fame is located in Canton and in Cleveland is the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. The Cleveland Clinic is one of the best hospitals in the world. In 2007, Ohio had 6 of the top 100 cities to live in. 2 of them were in Cleveland! (I know you'll shoot me down b/c that's last year's data) Regardless of what anyone writes here, you hate Cleveland, and will continue to do so. Thus, thanks for sharing, and let us enjoy our city.

Hmmmm Cleveland has all these venues and the Clinic. I wonder how many Clevelanders can afford to see the orchestra or a play? Or afford to be treated at the clinic? When many struggle to put food on the table and keep the roofs over their heads. So please spare me.

You've been gone for about 15 years, right? So don't lecture me on how I feel about Cleveland. If you were such a loyal Clevelander you wouldn't have left to begin with.

In those 15 years whole Cleveland neighborhoods have been decimated.
The crime and destruction has reached well into the inner-ring burbs as well. So, by all means, enjoy it, who's stopping you?

[xwideopenskyx]

Originally Posted by Clevelander17

First of all, I have no ax to grind with Arizona. I love it there, I just prefer Cleveland. Neither is perfect. Just accept that even Arizona has flaws.

Second of all, who cares if I misspelled "Tucson"? I didn't live there, I lived in Scottsdale. Tucson, in my opinion, is the worst big city in Arizona and I would never think of living there.



When I refer to "Cleveland" or "Clevelanders," for clarification I'm referring to everyone that lives in Greater Cleveland. The City of Cleveland only accounts for 20% of the metropolitan area, so that 30% poverty rate is mostly irrelevant to the discussion.



A number of people have shown facts that make greater Cleveland look a lot better than greater Phoenix in some important categories. If that's not good enough for you, I don't know what it's going to take.



A classic case of projection.

LMBO!!!! Your post is completely irrelevant and off topic.
Why do you keep bringing up Phoenix and Tucson? The readers of this thread could care less since the discussion is about Cleveland. Even though I reside in AZ, I could care less about those 2 cities as well,since I don't live in either one of them. So why don't you drop your attempt at a pissing contest and stick to the topic at hand.

Thanks for the good laugh.

[LewLew]

Originally Posted by xwideopenskyx

Hmmmm Cleveland has all these venues and the Clinic. I wonder how many Clevelanders can afford to see the orchestra or a play? Or afford to be treated at the clinic? When many struggle to put food on the table and keep the roofs over their heads. So please spare me.

You've been gone for about 15 years, right? So don't lecture me on how I feel about Cleveland. If you were such a loyal Clevelander you wouldn't have left to begin with.

In those 15 years whole Cleveland neighborhoods have been decimated.
The crime and destruction has reached well into the inner-ring burbs as well. So, by all means, enjoy it, who's stopping you?

First of all, people leave cities they love. It's called, COLLEGE and JOBS.
Lastly, your first comment makes no sense b/c the majority of Clevelanders can easily go to a play and the orchestra. That is the silliest arguement I've ever heard. Every city will have it's fair share of people who don't have a pot to p*** in, but that doesn't make up the entire demographic of a city.
I'm done arguing with you. It's obvious that you have not one ounce of common sense in you, and you are merely coming to this post to TROLL.

[LewLew]

Originally Posted by xwideopenskyx

LMBO!!!! Your post is completely irrelevant and off topic.
Why do you keep bringing up Phoenix and Tucson? The readers of this thread could care less since the discussion is about Cleveland. Even though I reside in AZ, I could care less about those 2 cities as well,since I don't live in either one of them. So why don't you drop your attempt at a pissing contest and stick to the topic at hand.

Thanks for the good laugh.

It would appear that you are the one looking for a pissing contest. You should go into politics. It is apparent you can only argue one point, and keep beating a dead horse so long that others give in. I've learned that you can't argue with ignorance, so we are done here.
One final thought....yes, I did leave Cleveland 15 years ago to go to college, and then to explore the US. Thus, I have a good gauge of what Cleveland is like in comparison. Why do YOU keep coming back to the Cleveland board when you've left? If you hated it so much you should be hanging with your new friends in your better city, and not rehashing your hatred for a city on this board. Wouldn't you be happier, and your time better spent on the AZ board telling everyone there how happy you are to be out of the horrible city you came from. I'm sure they'd love to hear from you.

[ijoe13]

I'm planning on moving to Seattle. My wife and I are in fields that have a very weak presence in Cleveland.

These winters are starting to get old too...

[airics]

Originally Posted by LewLew

First of all, people leave cities they love. It's called, COLLEGE and JOBS.
Lastly, your first comment makes no sense b/c the majority of Clevelanders can easily go to a play and the orchestra. That is the silliest arguement I've ever heard. Every city will have it's fair share of people who don't have a pot to p*** in, but that doesn't make up the entire demographic of a city.
I'm done arguing with you. It's obvious that you have not one ounce of common sense in you, and you are merely coming to this post to TROLL.

Sorry but i disagree, ALOT of Clevelander's cannot easily go to a play and orchestra. If you look around, there isn't much money here... As for the Cleveland Clinic... if they didn't have a program that helps with the fees and charges, we would all be royally screwed...
Cleveland has some good points... Medical is top notch, Schools are decent, and i believe we have the best sports fans in the nations... Where else can you find so many people rooting for a team in shambles (browns)... it shows we have hope... Thank goodness for the Cavs.

Poverty News Blog: Cleveland has second highest poverty rank in US

[LewLew]

Originally Posted by airics

Sorry but i disagree, ALOT of Clevelander's cannot easily go to a play and orchestra. If you look around, there isn't much money here... As for the Cleveland Clinic... if they didn't have a program that helps with the fees and charges, we would all be royally screwed...
Cleveland has some good points... Medical is top notch, Schools are decent, and i believe we have the best sports fans in the nations... Where else can you find so many people rooting for a team in shambles (browns)... it shows we have hope... Thank goodness for the Cavs.

Poverty News Blog: Cleveland has second highest poverty rank in US

I understand that there is a lot of poverty in the city of Cleveland. Given the cost of living in Cleveland, the poverty ranking is much different than what is constituted as poverty in say San Fran, NYC etc. It's an economic formula. My point was that the majority of Clevelanders CAN afford to go to see the orchestra play. If they couldn't, the art scene wouldn't survive and would move to another city. You have to go back and read that poster who kept nagging about what Cleveland had that made it a nice place to live. I'm going to change it up and stop calling Cleveland "Cleveland" and going to start calling it the "Cleveland area". It appears everyone is only looking at Cleveland as the 30 sq mile area with tons of poverty, and not an entire multi-county metropolitan city! So, again I do say that the majority of Clevelanders can afford to see a play and go to the orchestra. They patronize the sports team (pay money to go see them), they pay high taxes in many areas, they patronize the thousands of restaurants, park systems, community organizations, fundraisers, markets etc. I'm stoopified really. It's not the Cleveland Clinics fault that our US healthcare benefits are for crap in terms of affordability for everyone. They are still a top knotch medical facility, tops in the world. It's still a draw for the area.

I agree with you that the area has alot to improve upon, but my point was directed at another poster who wanted to do nothing more than lump Cleveland into the ghetto and say that there were no positive qualities.

[LewLew]

Originally Posted by airics

Sorry but i disagree, ALOT of Clevelander's cannot easily go to a play and orchestra. If you look around, there isn't much money here... As for the Cleveland Clinic... if they didn't have a program that helps with the fees and charges, we would all be royally screwed...
Cleveland has some good points... Medical is top notch, Schools are decent, and i believe we have the best sports fans in the nations... Where else can you find so many people rooting for a team in shambles (browns)... it shows we have hope... Thank goodness for the Cavs.

Poverty News Blog: Cleveland has second highest poverty rank in US

US Census article
US Census Press Releases
Four of Ohio's biggest and poorest cities -- Cleveland, Cincinnati, Toledo, Youngstown -- ranked among the 20 lowest-income cities in America.
Outside of the urban core, the news was brighter from the report on "Income, Poverty and Health Insurance in the United States: 2007."
Click on image to download PDF.
Median household income rose by 2.4 percent in Northeast Ohio, to $48,227 , slightly higher than the state median of $46,597.
Despite rising poverty, Cleveland saw its household income grow by nearly 5 percent, to $28,512.
Nationally, household incomes rose by about 1 percent, to $50,233.
For black households, median household income rose by 3.2 percent, from $32,876 to $33,916, the first real increase since 1999. But it remained the lowest for any racial group.
In Northeast Ohio, median income inched up in black households by about $100. In Cleveland, black household income actually fell by about $250, after accounting for inflation.
Again, Cleveland itself is hurting, and things do need to be done, but the entire area is not.

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by xwideopenskyx

LMBO!!!! Your post is completely irrelevant and off topic.
Why do you keep bringing up Phoenix and Tucson? The readers of this thread could care less since the discussion is about Cleveland. Even though I reside in AZ, I could care less about those 2 cities as well,since I don't live in either one of them. So why don't you drop your attempt at a pissing contest and stick to the topic at hand.

Thanks for the good laugh.

You live near Tuscon, beyond that it doesn't matter and I don't care. (Go Wildcats, though!)

I'm just trying to make a comparison because you've set up some arbitrary debate about the "greatness" of certain cities. If I'm off-base, then please enlighten us, what makes for a "great" city?

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by airics

Sorry but i disagree, ALOT of Clevelander's cannot easily go to a play and orchestra. If you look around, there isn't much money here... As for the Cleveland Clinic... if they didn't have a program that helps with the fees and charges, we would all be royally screwed...
Cleveland has some good points... Medical is top notch, Schools are decent, and i believe we have the best sports fans in the nations... Where else can you find so many people rooting for a team in shambles (browns)... it shows we have hope... Thank goodness for the Cavs.

Poverty News Blog: Cleveland has second highest poverty rank in US

For whatever it's worth, the majority of the support for most of Cleveland's cultural institutions and sports teams has been coming from the suburbs for decades now. That's how they've all survived (and in many cases, thrived). If they had to depend only on the residents of Cleveland proper, they'd have been in deep trouble years ago.

The link you posted, while completely true, doesn't nearly present the whole picture. Cuyahoga County, with roughly 1.4 million residents, has a lower poverty rate than a lot of big cities of comparable size (geographic and population). I hate to go here again, but Phoenix, a city almost identical in population to Cuyahoga County (and close enough in geographic size), has higher unemployment and poverty.