are you staying OR are you going? (Cleveland, Mayfield Heights: home, living in)

[LewLew]

Originally Posted by Kasey77

Well, you certainly are not blinded then. I had been gone so long and was shocked at what my city looked like. Still, is not detering me. I want to go home.

Yeah, I agree. Home is always home even if it's changed. Good luck with your move! I'm not looking forward to ours, as it's such a long distance, but am excited to get back!

[xwideopenskyx]

Originally Posted by Clevelander17

Population
City of Phoenix: 1,552,259 people
Cuyahoga County: 1,393,978 people

Area (Land Only)
City of Phoenix: 517 square miles
Cuyahoga County: 458 square miles

Poverty Rate
City of Phoenix: 15.8%
Cuyahoga County: 13.1%

Per Capita Income
City of Phoenix: $19,833
Cuyahoga County: $22,272

Unemployment Rate
Phoenix (metropolitan area): 6.3%
Cuyahoga County: 7.1%

I had trouble finding reliable information on the last category. As you can see, that figure is for the entire Valley area, not just Phoenix proper.

Phoenix, Arizona - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cuyahoga County, Ohio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Unemployment rates up: Arizona 6.9 percent, Phoenix metro 6.3 percent - Phoenix Business Journal:
December 2008 Ranking of Ohio County Unemployment Rates (Not Seasonally Adjusted)

So what does this mean? When looking at these two similar entities (Cuyahoga County and the City of Phoenix), we find that they are very comparable. Cuyahoga County surprisingly comes out on top in two of the three important indicators. And this is when compared to one of the poster cities for the booming Sun Belt.

Your logic is flawed in the most basic way....LMBO

You are comparing apples to oranges. The population and land area is irrelevant when comparing city or county stats.

You are comparing the City of Phoenix minus the wealthy suburbs to Cuyahoga County which includes the wealthy suburbs. What is wrong with this picture?

What kind of numbers can you come up with when you compare the following: City of Cleveland to City of Phoenix, Cuyahoga County to Maricopa County. You know, apples to apples?

[xwideopenskyx]

Originally Posted by LewLew

Hey airics, I just went back and looked at the whole thread, and appears the OP doesn't live in Cleveland either, and is coming back to Cleveland. Appears there is more than one of us, and even the deterioration of some things in Cleveland doesn't deter us natives.

Were you born in Cleveland?

[LewLew]

Originally Posted by xwideopenskyx

Were you born in Cleveland?

My parents were. They moved back with me when I was 3. I grew up there, and lived there as an adult as well.

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by xwideopenskyx

Your logic is flawed in the most basic way....LMBO

You are comparing apples to oranges. The population and land area is irrelevant when comparing city or county stats.

You are comparing the City of Phoenix minus the wealthy suburbs to Cuyahoga County which includes the wealthy suburbs. What is wrong with this picture?

What kind of numbers can you come up with when you compare the following: City of Cleveland to City of Phoenix, Cuyahoga County to Maricopa County. You know, apples to apples?

Actually it's not that flawed. Phoenix proper has wealthy areas and poor areas. There are wealthy areas in Greater Cleveland that are outside of Cuyahoga County. Since cities in the West are designed and set up differently than cities in the East, it's hard to compare any Eastern city to any Western city. Cities in the West are equivilant in size and scope to counties in the East. Generally speaking, of course.

All of that said, Maricopa County's per capita income is $22,251 and its poverty rate is 11.7%. Since those numbers are from the Census Bureau, they almost certainly do not include illegal immigrants, which if included would make both figures look worse.

[1watertiger]

Brookings Institution report shows Cleveland still a big economic force - OPENERS - Ohio Politics Blog by The Plain Dealer here is some info most people never talk about,, but should !

[Mrs. P]

Originally Posted by Buckeye in SC

You also forgot to mention that even for the people that do work, Cleveland, like almost every other city in NE Ohio charges an income tax, last I checked Cleveland's was 2%, so on top of the high property tax values, for the median income earner of approx. $30k, they take another $600 from you.

Yeah but Ohio doesn't charge new residents a "one time highway tax fee" like NC does when they go get their 1st set of license plates. Nor does Ohio charge personal property tax every year on ones cars. NC state tax is high as well, highest in the SE part of the US. SC however is much more reasonable even though they do charge the personal property tax every year on ones car...least they don't do the "one time highway tax fee" Also NC and SC are higher for car insurance.

It evens out just about.

[Mrs. P]

Originally Posted by Buckeye in SC

I wasn't talking about OH state income tax, I was talking about Local city income tax, no municipalities in SC or NC (or pretty much in any other state w/the exception of a few cities here and there) tax their residents or people who work in their cities. I gave the example of a $30,000 income, but if you make say $100,000, that's $2,000 in income tax! A lot for a city to withhold on top of property taxes for not so great services. And I can say that my property taxes (which include taxes for the city) here in Columbia are less than the property taxes we had while living in the Canton area for a much nicer house! Plus, property taxes here include trash/curbside recycling - which for most municipalities in Ohio, you have to pay for separately.

Don't get me wrong, I will always be a Buckeye at heart, but there are a lot of problems w/the NE Ohio area that this thread is trying to address. That said, I've never said the Carolinas or any area in the country are perfect, we've got our fair share of problems here too, but for our individual circumstances, we feel we are much better off living in Columbia than NE Ohio. Plus, while Ohioans are digging out of a foot of snow this morning, we are looking at temperatures near 70 today .

I really hope the best for Ohio, someday we may want to return, and I hope that if that day comes, we will have opportunities to return too.

Yes SC is much cheaper especially in the tax ranges...however, our state is broke, we have to borrow money to pay unemployment, not to mention our state of SC is #1 worst in the entire country for schools...sometimes you get exactly what you pay for...cheap taxes, very few good state services, and horrible schools for the most part. I'm not proud of that fact. I'd rather pay a bit more tax and bring our schools especially in the rural areas up to speed.

[Mrs. P]

Originally Posted by LewLew

One other thing I forgot about. Here in FL (not sure about SC, but I know NC has them and GA) we have CDD fees. I lived in a neighborhood in Jacksonville where the CDD fees were 2000 per year and could potentially go up. (CDD is community development dues). If you lived in a condo in there you paid 200 per month HOA, and 200 per month CDD. So, even though FL doesn't charge city tax (income tax at all for that matter) you still have those charges on top of mortgage payments. Any gated community or "subdivision" here in FT Myers charges them too. My mother's condo association fees are 1100 per quarter! Thus, no matter how you slice it, unless you live in an unrestricted part of a county/city, they are going to get you somehow. (CDDs are line items on tax bills, but I do understand that HOAs are not) NC charges state income, personal property tax and CDD fees. Thus, it can all be relative in the grand scheme of things for most people.

I lived in NC never heard of such a thing as CDD fees, HOA yes, but CDD no.

SC where I live now doesn't have them either. Just HOA fees if you live in that type of community...there are plenty of people in NC and SC who pay no HOA fees.

[Mrs. P]

Originally Posted by LewLew

The difference there is that you pay to an association, and it's not a line item on your tax bill. Be careful as HOA's have a tendency to rise at much quicker rate than CDD fees. Essentially they are the same. The difference with a CDD is that it's normally imposed at the onset of a community. It stays around for somewhere between 13 and 20 years. Basically, a developer will impose it as an infrastructure management fee. Thus, the CDD is covering a lot of the new roads, underground utilities, etc. If your community is brand new, there probably wasn't the need to completely overhaul the area. If your community is over 10 years old, then the very initial infrastructure was covered by the developer or the city/county and not passed the residents. CDDs are relatively new things.

In SC the builder himself pays this fee directly to the county.