are you staying OR are you going? (Columbus, Cleveland: real estate, foreclosures)

[LewLew]

Originally Posted by exit18b

We live in Shaker Heights! I do miss going to the Jersey Shore and getting some pizza and walking the boardwalk in Seaside Heights or hitting the bars in Asbury Park. There are only 2 things that I can say I do not like about the Cleveland area is 1. The snow. 2. Downtown. With that, they do any OUTSTANDING JOB clearing the snow in Shaker. WOW! Downtown is moving in the right direction and when are kids get out of school we are heading to the warehouse district!

I love Shaker. I also love the snow. (probably b/c I haven't lived in it for over a decade) However, it does get tiresome after a while. I currently live in FL, and 280 days on average of sunshine can get tiresome too. I'm sure i"ll miss that again 10 years from now. Glad to hear you think DT is moving in the right direction. It was almost there once, and the city blew it.

[xwideopenskyx]

Just like I thought, not one of you can provide any factual data to back up your claims. Opinions are just opinions. What you may percieve as being great others do not. Some move out of Cleveland and return, some do not.

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by xwideopenskyx

One of the key components of a great city is positive population growth.
Cleveland and Cuyahoga county has negative growth and it's been this way longer than I care to remember. Can you show me any credible statistics that backup your opinion?

Do you have anything that backs up your definition of "great city"? Or is that only an opinion like most of the other statements on this thread? Fact is, Cleveland can and will continue to lose population for the foreseeable future. That's not going to change the fact that it's still an affordable city with access to a beautiful lake, has tons of great entertainment and recreation options, good education choices, great hospitals, several Fortune 1000 companies, and many more positives that are too numerous to list here.

That said, if you look at the region as a whole, it's losing population at a very slow rate. What's really happening is that people are moving around within the region. Population growth would be nice, but it doesn't define the area.

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by xwideopenskyx

Just like I thought, not one of you can provide any factual data to back up your claims. Opinions are just opinions. What you may percieve as being great others do not. Some move out of Cleveland and return, some do not.

Exactly, it's our opinion that it's great. Obviously some people have a differing opinion and do not agree (and find it necessary to make themselves feel better about their decision to leave by coming to the forum and bashing the place).

By the way, I see you're a resident of Arizona. I lived out there for almost two years. Flagstaff is gorgeous. Tuscon is a dump. Phoenix has some really nice parts, but also bad parts. I lived in Phoenix and thought it was dull, boring, and lacking culture. It has no real downtown to speak of, even "tiny" Cleveland has a more impressive central city. It's got a really transient population and the people out there tend to be less friendly than in other parts of the country. Because of the constantly growing population, the traffic is terrible and getting worse. In ten years or less the freeways will be just as bad in Phoenix as they are in Los Angeles.

[xwideopenskyx]

Originally Posted by Clevelander17

Exactly, it's our opinion that it's great. Obviously some people have a differing opinion and do not agree (and find it necessary to make themselves feel better about their decision to leave by coming to the forum and bashing the place).

By the way, I see you're a resident of Arizona. I lived out there for almost two years. Flagstaff is gorgeous. Tuscon is a dump. Phoenix has some really nice parts, but also bad parts. I lived in Phoenix and thought it was dull, boring, and lacking culture. It has no real downtown to speak of, even "tiny" Cleveland has a more impressive central city. It's got a really transient population and the people out there tend to be less friendly than in other parts of the country. Because of the constantly growing population, the traffic is terrible and getting worse. In ten years or less the freeways will be just as bad in Phoenix as they are in Los Angeles.

Lets leave the melodrama for the soap operas clevelander17, ok?

Apparently, your relocation to AZ didn't work out well and your bitterness shows. If you want to discuss AZ go to the appropriate forums. This is a Cleveland forum.

Now back on topic. If people make claims as to how great the city of Cleveland is, I would like to see them back it up with facts and not nostalgic emotions. If you're going to invest money in certain funds do you check out the prospectus? Or do you invest because you like the name of the fund? If you're going to bet on a horse at the track, do you look at his odds? If you're buying a car, do you check out the performance ratings?
Are you getting it yet?

Therefore, I, as well as others would appreciate factual data that would help us form our own opinions about Cleveland.

For instance any current data for the following would help:

1. Average house value
2. Property tax rates
3. Percentage of Foreclosures
4. Median income
5. Poverty rate
6. Crime rate
7. Unemployment rate
8. Job growth rate
9. High school drop out rate

etc.

Numbers don't lie. Anyone up for the challenge?

[LewLew]

Sure, I'll take you on. Mainly b/c Arizona has one of the highest foreclosure rates in the country, so your numbers don't lie either. One of the reasons your population is increasing is that the baby boomers are retiring. They are a very large part of the population, and they leave the cold, and move to the warmth. Thus, for the next 8 years, the numbers will guide that. It's the 50 somethings to early 60 somethings who are migrating.

I am also not quite sure why you want to come to the Cleveland board and bash it when you don't even live there. What gets me about the boards is the negativity of people who aren't even in a place. It's like you have some ax to grind.

Anyway, here goes with your silly data challenge:
Average house value: lower than AZ. One of the most affordable housing markets in the country. Not sure why this is on your challenge b/c lower property values actually make a place more desireable, and it gets it listed on the "top places to live, work and raise a family list". Uh, AZ has skyrocketed/inflated house values, and thus...a HUMUNGOUS foreclosure rate, and falling prices. I'd rather be where my value doesn't jump or crash.
Property tax rates: High. Not as high as NY and most of the NE. Can't compare to AZ, FL etc. b/c those states cater to the tourists and the elderly. They can't charge the high tax rates whether it be property, sales, income etc. b/c most of the population is on fixed income. The tourists aren't going to come if the goods they buy and the hotels charge too much money to cover taxes. Duh.
Percentage of foreclosures: Ohio is lower than AZ. OH: 153196 AZ: Arizona foreclosures rate is among the nations’ highest.(as reported by US tax sale lists and Money Mag)With one in every 198 housing units receiving a foreclosure filing, Arizona posted the nation’s third highest foreclosure rate in November despite a nearly 25 percent decrease in foreclosure activity from the previous month. This is up nearly 128% from 2007. Total foreclosures nearing 430,000.
Poverty Rate: Ohio 12.3, Arizona 12.6 A wash my friend.
Crime Rate: Ok, overall they are very close as OH has less vehicle, petty, property crime, and very close numbers on murder and violent crime. AZ had higher numbers in the above. Murder in OH: 516 to AZ's 468. Not too far off my friend. The number one murderous city in the US is Albuquerque! Cleveland isn't even in the top 10!
Unemployment rate: Number 1 is Michigan. Again, Ohio not even in the top 10!. AZ is only 8 states behind OH, and again...most of your residents are on FIXED INCOME...not part of the overall unemployment stats. here are states before OH, Rhode Island (2), South Carolina (2), California (4), Oregon (5), Nevada (6), DC (7), North Carolina (8), Georgia (9), Florida (10) etc....Arizona, California and Florida actually had the highest increase in 08 for loss of jobs.
Job growth rate: If you look from a state's perspective, Ohio ranks high. However, Cleveland has 2 things that are on the nation's TOP JOB GROWTH charts. #1 medical industry (40% increase in jobs in 2009), and education (37% increase in jobs in 09). Arizona has ranked high on job growth until 2007 b/c trade's jobs are leaving. They ahve the tourism industry which helps them out.
High School drop out rate: Ohio's graduation rate is 8% higher than the national average. 80.2 percent to be exact. Arizona's graduation rate is 73.3 percent which is 4% below the national average. Nevada has the lowest graduation rate. Here are some more stats for you regarding Cleveland. Shaker Heights just received a national honor program designated for only a couple schools nationally (can't remember the name of the award), Cuyahoga County schools rank in the top 20% nationally. When you break it down by school you get even higher numbers.

Thus, not sure what you are trying to prove, but Cleveland is not a bad place to live. Nationally, it ranks really high. Shaker was voted as one of the top 10 best suburbs for families. Arizona areas such as Phoenix and Tuscon were never in the top lists. They always ranked low in affordability.

Have a good day.

[Kasey77]

Great post LewLew!

[1watertiger]

wideopensky, why does pheonix have so many illegals working for contractors ? and why do residents continue to hire them except they are cheap? states like AZ. need to wake up ! it offends tax payers like me. if you bother to respond , do it by direct message. as mentioned above its not the correct forum here.

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by xwideopenskyx

Lets leave the melodrama for the soap operas clevelander17, ok?

Apparently, your relocation to AZ didn't work out well and your bitterness shows. If you want to discuss AZ go to the appropriate forums. This is a Cleveland forum.

No melodrama here, buddy, just giving you an honest retort. As for Arizona, I have nothing against the place and I'm certainly not bitter about my time there. I like it, still have family there, and will go back to visit often. Of all of the Sun Belt locations, it's my favorite. That said, it has its downsides, too, and I'm not interested in living there at this time.

If anyone is bringing bitterness to this forum and is trying to stir up trouble, it's you. I don't know what your problem with Cleveland is, but you need to get over the fact that many people love this area and voluntarily choose to live here. Sure, parts of it are struggling, but times are tough in the United States are no metropolitan area is going unaffected.

Originally Posted by xwideopenskyx

Now back on topic. If people make claims as to how great the city of Cleveland is, I would like to see them back it up with facts and not nostalgic emotions. If you're going to invest money in certain funds do you check out the prospectus? Or do you invest because you like the name of the fund? If you're going to bet on a horse at the track, do you look at his odds? If you're buying a car, do you check out the performance ratings?
Are you getting it yet?

Therefore, I, as well as others would appreciate factual data that would help us form our own opinions about Cleveland.

For instance any current data for the following would help:

1. Average house value
2. Property tax rates
3. Percentage of Foreclosures
4. Median income
5. Poverty rate
6. Crime rate
7. Unemployment rate
8. Job growth rate
9. High school drop out rate

etc.

Numbers don't lie. Anyone up for the challenge?

Like I said, a lot of this is all subjective. Sure numbers exists for the things on your magical little list, but what do those numbers mean? For instance, home prices in Arizona and other parts of the Sun Belt are severely overinflated. Now with the economic downturn, there has been some correction to those prices, but the reality remains that for the money, one can get much more house in Cleveland than in Phoenix.

[xwideopenskyx]

Well, so far, I got some numbers for the STATE of Ohio, whole bunch of comparisons to other states (which I could care less about). I DID NOT ASK FOR COMPARISONS.
This is a Cleveland board and I am asking for information about the CITY OF CLEVELAND PROPER ( no burbs). Can any of you understand what I am asking for, or am I writing in a foreign language? Can we stay on topic? If you have gripes about other states go to the appropriate board.

Does anyone in Cleveland have the current data? I will ask again:

1. Average house value
2. Property tax rates
3. Percentage of Foreclosures
4. Median income
5. Poverty rate
6. Crime rate
7. Unemployment rate
8. Job growth rate
9. High school drop out rate