are you staying OR are you going? (Cleveland, Akron: foreclosure, HOA)

[LewLew]

Originally Posted by xwideopenskyx

Well, so far, I got some numbers for the STATE of Ohio, whole bunch of comparisons to other states (which I could care less about). I DID NOT ASK FOR COMPARISONS.
This is a Cleveland board and I am asking for information about the CITY OF CLEVELAND PROPER ( no burbs). Can any of you understand what I am asking for, or am I writing in a foreign language? Can we stay on topic? If you have gripes about other states go to the appropriate board.

Does anyone in Cleveland have the current data? I will ask again:

1. Average house value
2. Property tax rates
3. Percentage of Foreclosures
4. Median income
5. Poverty rate
6. Crime rate
7. Unemployment rate
8. Job growth rate
9. High school drop out rate

You just lost me b/c most people aren't living in the city of Cleveland proper. There are not many areas in the US where you can take merely the "inner city data" and make any kind of case about the area as a whole. Your post now makes zero sense.
If you go to the Los Angeles board it would be the same thing. Detroit, Charlotte (you should really go there and see the #s) City centers and the entire area all have skewed data. I took the time to answer you, and you still had to make an issue. IMO no one should even answer you any more b/c you obviously don't know what you are talking about.

[denbeny]

Moved away in '92 and moved back in '05. I love it here. We were in the Bay Area of CA and it is so transient, you don't keep friends and neighbors for very long. There is such a sense of community here and the sports fans are such die hards (guess you have to be). My husband and kids, all born in CA are now Buckeyes. For me, there's no place like home!

[LewLew]

Originally Posted by denbeny

Moved away in '92 and moved back in '05. I love it here. We were in the Bay Area of CA and it is so transient, you don't keep friends and neighbors for very long. There is such a sense of community here and the sports fans are such die hards (guess you have to be). My husband and kids, all born in CA are now Buckeyes. For me, there's no place like home!

Amen! Moved away for 15 years...and am COMING HOME! I found the same thing elsewhere. Transient, no "good" friends, neighbors always coming and going. Today, I actually had to call all the utility companies in Cleveland to get average utility costs for a couple homes we are considering....they were all FRIENDLY and helpful. Maybe I caught them on a good day, but I had to call NY Dept of Labor regarding some legal stuff for my HR staff, and was hung up on, never got a "thanks for calling" or anything. Buckeyes are, and will always be "good people". FL was nice, and CA was nice, but not home.

[xwideopenskyx]

Originally Posted by LewLew

You just lost me b/c most people aren't living in the city of Cleveland proper. There are not many areas in the US where you can take merely the "inner city data" and make any kind of case about the area as a whole. Your post now makes zero sense.
If you go to the Los Angeles board it would be the same thing. Detroit, Charlotte (you should really go there and see the #s) City centers and the entire area all have skewed data. I took the time to answer you, and you still had to make an issue. IMO no one should even answer you any more b/c you obviously don't know what you are talking about.

Evidently, you are lost. (since you mentioned it yourself)

444,313 people live in the city of Cleveland, what about those people?

Data for the whole state that you provided is too general. Lets say if you live in Cleveland, does the performance of Columbus city schools have any influence on you? Or, if you live in Pepper Pike does the crime rate in the city of Cleveland decline the quality of your life? No, I didn't think so.

You're right, no one will answer my questions, not because the information isn't there, but because no one on this thread will fess up to the truth.
I'm not surprised, I expected that.

The fact is that Cleveland has some decent burbs but the city itself is a whole other matter.

You won't post the facts, then I will. Readers can draw their own conclusions:

1. Average house value $86,600

2. Property tax rates $1750 - $2000 per 100,000

3. Percentage of Foreclosures 80,000 properties since 2000, 19% of those in '08 (cuyahoga county)

4. Median income $29,163

5. Poverty rate 29.5%

6. Crime rate (murder) 23.8% ('06) national avg 6.9% ('06) Anyone have data for 2007,2008?

7. Unemployment rate 10.1%

8. Job growth rate -2.0%

9. High school drop out rate 65.9%

Ohio Census - cleveland.com

High school drop-out rate in major US cities at nearly 50 percent

Cleveland Neighborhood Profile on Yahoo! Real Estate - Demographics, Cost of L

In Cleveland, Foreclosures Decimate Neighborhoods : NPR

[Buckeye in SC]

Originally Posted by xwideopenskyx

Evidently, you are lost. (since you mentioned it yourself)

444,313 people live in the city of Cleveland, what about those people?

Data for the whole state that you provided is too general. Lets say if you live in Cleveland, does the performance of Columbus city schools have any influence on you? Or, if you live in Pepper Pike does the crime rate in the city of Cleveland decline the quality of your life? No, I didn't think so.

You're right, no one will answer my questions, not because the information isn't there, but because no one on this thread will fess up to the truth.
I'm not surprised, I expected that.

The fact is that Cleveland has some decent burbs but the city itself is a whole other matter.

You won't post the facts, then I will. Readers can draw their own conclusions:

1. Average house value $86,600

2. Property tax rates $1750 - $2000 per 100,000

3. Percentage of Foreclosures 80,000 properties since 2000, 19% of those in '08 (cuyahoga county)

4. Median income $29,163

5. Poverty rate 29.5%

6. Crime rate (murder) 23.8% ('06) national avg 6.9% ('06) Anyone have data for 2007,2008?

7. Unemployment rate 10.1%

8. Job growth rate -2.0%

9. High school drop out rate 65.9%

Ohio Census - cleveland.com

High school drop-out rate in major US cities at nearly 50 percent

Cleveland Neighborhood Profile on Yahoo! Real Estate - Demographics, Cost of L

In Cleveland, Foreclosures Decimate Neighborhoods : NPR

You also forgot to mention that even for the people that do work, Cleveland, like almost every other city in NE Ohio charges an income tax, last I checked Cleveland's was 2%, so on top of the high property tax values, for the median income earner of approx. $30k, they take another $600 from you.

[LewLew]

Originally Posted by Buckeye in SC

You also forgot to mention that even for the people that do work, Cleveland, like almost every other city in NE Ohio charges an income tax, last I checked Cleveland's was 2%, so on top of the high property tax values, for the median income earner of approx. $30k, they take another $600 from you.

This has obviously become a bash Cleveland thread. Yes, Ohio has income tax, and so does 85% of the US. There are only a couple of states that do not. States like NC also charge personal property tax on top of city income and state income, but it hasn't stopped people from thinking it's a nice city to live in. Check out "Charlotte propers numbers on gang violence etc"
To the poster who is all about showing the numbers for the city of Cleveland proper (please remember that statistics are never black and white) I'm not going to get into a long discussion with you, but when the original post is regarding staying or leaving the area they are NOT referring to the inner city of Cleveland, and the fact that it has nice suburbs IS a draw for a lot of people.
When I said that people aren't living in Cleveland "proper" I meant the majority of the people you are antigonizing on this board!!!!!!!! I'm not ignorant to the fact that people live there. Most inner cities (aside from those built around it like NYC, Chicago, San Fran etc) have high poverty rates, low median income rates, low housing cost, high foreclosure numbers. My point was that you are hounding Cleveland area residents about the negative numbers of the downtown area, and no one who lives in Cleveland denies that the "city" itself needs to get it's act together. There IS A LOT of untapped potential. People aren't drawn to live in the Cleveland area b/c of the downtown area. Please either move there, or at least have lived there before you start smashing our city. I think you live in AZ? (not you, but the previous poster)
I am coming back to Cleveland b/c the school system my son will go to has a 90% graduation/college attendance rate. I'm not going to make my decision based on inner city school data! Lastly, you gave stats on Cuyahoga County in some of your numbers~ uh, that is NOT a Cleveland stat according to you. I also gave you the numbers in my post. Point being...you can make anywhere look great or horrible based on stats. Look beyond some of them to make an informed decision. However, you are probably on your porch in AZ just creating debate.

[Buckeye in SC]

Originally Posted by LewLew

This has obviously become a bash Cleveland thread. Yes, Ohio has income tax, and so does 85% of the US. There are only a couple of states that do not. States like NC also charge personal property tax on top of city income and state income, but it hasn't stopped people from thinking it's a nice city to live in. Check out "Charlotte propers numbers on gang violence etc"

I wasn't talking about OH state income tax, I was talking about Local city income tax, no municipalities in SC or NC (or pretty much in any other state w/the exception of a few cities here and there) tax their residents or people who work in their cities. I gave the example of a $30,000 income, but if you make say $100,000, that's $2,000 in income tax! A lot for a city to withhold on top of property taxes for not so great services. And I can say that my property taxes (which include taxes for the city) here in Columbia are less than the property taxes we had while living in the Canton area for a much nicer house! Plus, property taxes here include trash/curbside recycling - which for most municipalities in Ohio, you have to pay for separately.

Don't get me wrong, I will always be a Buckeye at heart, but there are a lot of problems w/the NE Ohio area that this thread is trying to address. That said, I've never said the Carolinas or any area in the country are perfect, we've got our fair share of problems here too, but for our individual circumstances, we feel we are much better off living in Columbia than NE Ohio. Plus, while Ohioans are digging out of a foot of snow this morning, we are looking at temperatures near 70 today .

I really hope the best for Ohio, someday we may want to return, and I hope that if that day comes, we will have opportunities to return too.

[Pgserge27]

Your numbers are flawed on the city tax, I make way more than that, more than double that, and pay less than 600 a year. That's a fact, and if you work in Cleveland and live in Cleveland you don't pay anything.

[CortlandGirl79]

It's not a city income tax, it's a wage tax. They don't tax your income from investments, etc. just wages.

[Buckeye in SC]

Originally Posted by CortlandGirl79

It's not a city income tax, it's a wage tax. They don't tax your income from investments, etc. just wages.

You're correct cortlandgirl, that's what I meant to say, thanks for clarifying it.

And Pgserge, not sure what you are talking about, here is a link to Cleveland's (CCA) tax website showing the 2% and as you'll see, the surrounding suburbs also tax their residents. The credit is for if you work in one city and live in another i.e. you live in Warrensville Hts. and work in Cleveland, you'd pay 2% to Cleveland and 1% (after the credit) to Warrensville Hts.

CCA - Division Of Taxation

There are some smaller cities that are less as you can see, but most of the major cities in NE Ohio (Cleveland, Akron, Youngstown, Canton) tax at 2% or higher.