Consolidated Cleveland-Cuyahoga Pro's and Con's (East Cleveland, Medina: buying, luxury, taxes)

[ColumbusNEWb]

Taken from the "I survived Cleveland thread" to focus on this topic...
Let's hear the pro's and con's of a city-county merger.
As stated we all know the chances of it happening is close to never.. but lets share what you would think would benefit the Cleveland region by a city-county merger or what may make it worse if it were to merge.

[Boffo]

It's funny that this discussion came up as I was thinking about this idea the other day. I would be against a city/county merger because Cuyahoga County is having so many problems with population loss. I think if the county became the city and the outer-ring suburbs were forced to bear some of the problems (whether you think they should or not) that the inner-city faces, people would move over the county lines into the exurban communities. This would further cripple the county's tax base and make it harder to get things done all over the county as well as the central city. What I wish would happen in my perfect world is for Cleveland to annex most of the inner-ring suburbs. . Especially since many of the inner-ring suburbs are starting to face many of the problems Cleveland faces. I think there are way too many governments in Cuyahoga County and therefore many overlapping service areas. If you cut out many overlapping services and got rid of a few mayoral departments, you could cut taxes or spend the money on some large civic project. This would encourage growth and development. However, it's pretty hard to annex an incorporated city. I'm pretty sure to annex an incorporated city (someone please correct me if I'm wrong), both cities have to have a 3/4 approving vote so you'd really have to sell it to the citizens. But if both cities are really struggling, it could be done.

[jam40jeff]

In a perfect world, regionalization would not encompass just Cuyahoga County, but an area large enough to encompass all those who reap the benefits of living within the Cleveland metro area. It's a bunch of garbage that Cleveland or Cuayahoga County pays taxes to support things like Convention Centers and sports arenas, and people who live out in Medina County (who could afford to be paying for them) enjoy these amenities. Sports arenas are the ones that really get me, as many of the people that can afford tickets don't even live in Cuyahoga County.

[Chef Boyardee]

Originally Posted by jam40jeff

In a perfect world, regionalization would not encompass just Cuyahoga County, but an area large enough to encompass all those who reap the benefits of living within the Cleveland metro area. It's a bunch of garbage that Cleveland or Cuayahoga County pays taxes to support things like Convention Centers and sports arenas, and people who live out in Medina County (who could afford to be paying for them) enjoy these amenities. Sports arenas are the ones that really get me, as many of the people that can afford tickets don't even live in Cuyahoga County.

Fine, don't build them.

[jam40jeff]

Many fans disagree with you. But they love having a team and a stadium to go to without having to pay for it. I suspect you're one of them.

[Puddy4LyF]

Originally Posted by jam40jeff

Many fans disagree with you. But they love having a team and a stadium to go to without having to pay for it. I suspect you're one of them.

I'm not disagreeing with your sentiment, but let it not be forgotten that those outsiders are also sparking economies within the city that paid for the stadium at the same time. Without that stadium, they're not eating downtown, shopping downtown, and buying into the local economy. I'm not attempting to say it is or isn't worth it, but you're still getting something out of it moreso than simply a stadium, especially if you're working in the service sector.

[BelieveInCleve]

I made a thread similar to this one about a year ago:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/cleve...nnexation.html

As far as this plan, before I could make my decision I would have to look at all the specifics and understand all of it. Im not sure how all of it would work out.

[jam40jeff]

Originally Posted by Puddy4LyF

I'm not disagreeing with your sentiment, but let it not be forgotten that those outsiders are also sparking economies within the city that paid for the stadium at the same time. Without that stadium, they're not eating downtown, shopping downtown, and buying into the local economy. I'm not attempting to say it is or isn't worth it, but you're still getting something out of it moreso than simply a stadium, especially if you're working in the service sector.

Those same suburbanites also drive into the city to buy drugs and pick up prostitutes, and many, many of them drive back through Cuyahoga County wasted on Saturday night, but don't pay a dime for police and fire protection. The fact of the matter is that they enjoy the amenities of the city, but don't have to pay taxes for any of it.

We pay the same amount to eat downtown as they do. We pay the same amount to go to a Cavs, Indians, and Browns game as they do. Those are market forces driving the price points to where they are. Taxes are outside of the market and money we deem necessary to provide collectively as a community to help support those things when the private sector can't do it alone. We are the only ones paying that end. The fact that someone from Medina County patronizes a downtown restaurant sure doesn't make up for that. That is an at-will transaction. They are paying what they deem to be a fair value for what they receive in return, and they would still be eating at that same restaurant if they lived in Cuyahoga County. THe only thing missing is that they have evaded having to pay the taxes by a stupid techincality where we draw artificial borders so people with the wealth to live just outside those borders can play the game.

[Puddy4LyF]

Originally Posted by jam40jeff

Those same suburbanites also drive into the city to buy drugs and pick up prostitutes, and many, many of them drive back through Cuyahoga County wasted on Saturday night, but don't pay a dime for police and fire protection. The fact of the matter is that they enjoy the amenities of the city, but don't have to pay taxes for any of it.

We pay the same amount to eat downtown as they do. We pay the same amount to go to a Cavs, Indians, and Browns game as they do. Those are market forces driving the price points to where they are. Taxes are outside of the market and money we deem necessary to provide collectively as a community to help support those things when the private sector can't do it alone. We are the only ones paying that end. The fact that someone from Medina County patronizes a downtown restaurant sure doesn't make up for that. That is an at-will transaction. They are paying what they deem to be a fair value for what they receive in return, and they would still be eating at that same restaurant if they lived in Cuyahoga County. THe only thing missing is that they have evaded having to pay the taxes by a stupid techincality where we draw artificial borders so people with the wealth to live just outside those borders can play the game.

At the same time, you can't claim ignorance. You chose to move to a city which holds this type of excitement and requires taxes for things like sports stadiums. Why did you move to a large city if your beef is that too many people are coming to it? I also find it silly to claim that people are driving to Cleveland to pick up hookers and driving drunk off the road -- let's be real. People don't usually get busted for picking up a prostitute so they're not usually demanding police intervention and I highly doubt that you have to drive to Cleveland to get some. People coming from outside of Cleveland and going IN to Cleveland generally aren't the people that committing problems for the city (save East Cleveland). This appears to be a case wherein you need a reason to ***** and you're looking for someone to blame aside from the city leaders and people themselves.

Another point: When new stadiums are up for vote, why are people in your city approving it? Are they all just completely fanatical about sports or are there underlying reasons why you'd WANT to pay a tax to have such a luxury in your city? I think you need to do a bit more thinking on the topic.

[CTownNative]

I don't see any reason why some of the inner ring suburbs wouldn't want to be annexed by Cleveland, Especially East Cleveland. East Cleveland definetly won't be able to make it on its own so why not just merge into Cleveland.