opinions on shaker heights

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by citydudeallover

Will find you , Did you mean , you read graffiti ?, some where ?, Because , one can't find graffiti , Unless you mean , I found graffiti sprayed painted on my garage , it was so alarming , Skaker Heights is not an area one should ever think of moving to , again What the hell is the USA becoming
Additude is everything , bad thoughts , bring bad additudes ,Thanks , I am
out of this place called Metro Cleveland , let the down fall begin ,

Dude.... take it easy on the comma's!

[Pollyjo]

so here's my take on shaker considering that I am living there for less than an year; and have lived in other places in other states, and countries:

The Good:
1. it is a suburb consisting of people fairly highly educated, mostly in academics, or self -employed (eg: people working in technology, computers, law, education etc.)
2. It is, therefore, a close-knit community of solid values.
3. the houses themselves are pretty, with nice, albeit small gardens, and have a "dated" look to them (for some folks it may feel warm, and "homey" )
4. the schools are supposed to be one of the best in the area.
5. it is mostly safe, except on the fringes where you would find some degree of "unruliness"
The Bad:
1. needless to say, taxes! here we have two types of taxes: RITA, which is the local tax, and Property taxes:
Both are exceptionally high. I can justify the former if I were living in Manhattan, but in Shaker? The latter in another matter altogether considering that the real estate market is awfully low, and hey, will it ever look up? I don't know the answer to that. However, in the meanwhile, you continue to pay the taxes on "appraised" value, which of course does not reflect the real one.
Secondly, if your home needs improvement, and most of them do because they are more than 50 years old and dated, there are rules of what materials need to be used, and what can and cannot be done architecture-wise. While I appreciate the need to preserve a 50-year old architecture, it is rather impractical financially and economically for everyone to invest in home-improvement costs. Therefore, you will find a lot of homes that are poorly insulated, and eat into the energy costs. Further, home-improvements will take up a lot of finances, and that will go on to increase the taxes anyway (because now, the appraisals will be better )
Besides, you are responsible for maintaining your own sidewalk, and have to fix it yourself if there are any broken stones or pavement issues.
2. having said that, everyone else may justify the need for such high taxes for better schools (which is where most of them go, I'm told), and garbage collection (and that would be a joke!, because it is done once a week, as is done in most other places in the state and country); and, the fact that Shaker is not a "business community".
3. The roads are pretty poor, and not as well maintained. The reason is perhaps the winter destroys them, and so it is a recurring problem, and therefore best to be ignored (of course, I'm being facetious)
4. Folks unconditionally loyal to shaker will point to excellent libraries; and I am in complete agreement with them. However, the libraries are common to entire "Cleveland Public libraries", aren't they?
5. having said all this: I sometimes cannot help but wonder where all the tax money goes: to schools?, for garbage collections? for leaf collections in fall? for police and security perhaps (although that is supposed to be less than 10 %); and of course paying salaries for all the people who work relentlessly for betterment of shaker.

So folks, I am trying to understand Shaker philosophy (because I am really not all that rich, and would like to save some money for my retirement and my kids' future, while I do appreciate sending my kids to nice schools, there is still life beyond school isn't there?); please let me know if I am missing something, I am definitely willing to revise my opinion.

[xanthines]

Pollyjo-

The roads, sidewalks, houses, and taxes issues are pretty common to all Cleveland cities. Most places make you fix your sidewalk. Everyone hates RITA. The property tax in University Heights is higher, I believe, so you really have to ask: where does THAT money go?

The Shaker Hts property taxes mainly fund schools, as around 70% go into the school system. City of Shaker Heights - Finance (http://www.shakeronline.com/dept/finance/FAQ.asp - broken link)

The insulation is due to the electrical system of olden days (pre-1950's, ie pre-Romex wiring). Knob and tubing (KT, for short), which was the standard electrical wiring when most houses were built, is not amenable to insulation due to fire. In order to install installation, you have to rip out all the KT and replace it with Romex. An expensive proposition, prohibitive for most. Knob and Tube Wiring

I do agree that Shaker Heights is a nice, safe, and fun place to live!

[AndyF667]

[quote=Pollyjo;12825905]so here's my take on shaker considering that I am living there for less than an year; and have lived in other places in other states, and countries:

The Good:
1. it is a suburb consisting of people fairly highly educated, mostly in academics, or self -employed (eg: people working in technology, computers, law, education etc.)
2. It is, therefore, a close-knit community of solid values.
3. the houses themselves are pretty, with nice, albeit small gardens, and have a "dated" look to them (for some folks it may feel warm, and "homey" )
4. the schools are supposed to be one of the best in the area.
5. it is mostly safe, except on the fringes where you would find some degree of "unruliness"

1. Generally. There are also plenty of folks in finance(banking, investing, etc.).
2. Agreed
3. Small back yards, larger fronts (Except for the mansions of course). This was actually intentional by the Van Sweringens to bring families out to the front yards. Dated? I suppose this is taste. My opinion is that split levels and ranches are dated. Not center-hall colonials, tudors, etc. To each his own
4. Supposed? Based on Merit Scholars every year, it is one of top publics. Our 6 years in the SH system has been wonderful.
5. Agreed. Near the border, where you find more rentals, it seems most of the crime (according to Sun Newspapers blotter) occurs.

The Bad:
1. needless to say, taxes! here we have two types of taxes: RITA, which is the local tax, and Property taxes:
Both are exceptionally high. I can justify the former if I were living in Manhattan, but in Shaker? The latter in another matter altogether considering that the real estate market is awfully low, and hey, will it ever look up? I don't know the answer to that. However, in the meanwhile, you continue to pay the taxes on "appraised" value, which of course does not reflect the real one.
Secondly, if your home needs improvement, and most of them do because they are more than 50 years old and dated, there are rules of what materials need to be used, and what can and cannot be done architecture-wise. While I appreciate the need to preserve a 50-year old architecture, it is rather impractical financially and economically for everyone to invest in home-improvement costs. Therefore, you will find a lot of homes that are poorly insulated, and eat into the energy costs. Further, home-improvements will take up a lot of finances, and that will go on to increase the taxes anyway (because now, the appraisals will be better )
Besides, you are responsible for maintaining your own sidewalk, and have to fix it yourself if there are any broken stones or pavement issues.
2. having said that, everyone else may justify the need for such high taxes for better schools (which is where most of them go, I'm told), and garbage collection (and that would be a joke!, because it is done once a week, as is done in most other places in the state and country); and, the fact that Shaker is not a "business community".
3. The roads are pretty poor, and not as well maintained. The reason is perhaps the winter destroys them, and so it is a recurring problem, and therefore best to be ignored (of course, I'm being facetious)
4. Folks unconditionally loyal to shaker will point to excellent libraries; and I am in complete agreement with them. However, the libraries are common to entire "Cleveland Public libraries", aren't they?
5. having said all this: I sometimes cannot help but wonder where all the tax money goes: to schools?, for garbage collections? for leaf collections in fall? for police and security perhaps (although that is supposed to be less than 10 %); and of course paying salaries for all the people who work relentlessly for betterment of shaker.

1. Um. I hope the tax rate was not a surprise when you moved in. A realtor should help factor this into your monthly mortgage payment. Shaker has the highest tax rate in the state. I think comparing to SH to Manhatten is ridiculous. Apples and oranges. Regarding the appraised value, this is a problem in every city in Ohio. And this draws from the unconstitutional manner in which public schools are funded. Cities/Counties cannot afford to lower the values too much or they are screwed. So my home valuation did drop last year (10%) I know I couldnt sell for that much. So it is a catch 22, if you lower the value of the house too much, the schools have no money. If the schools have no money, they layoff staff. Now the class size goes from 24 to 34 and then the grades start to fall, which lowers the ranking, which lowers the property value more. It is a self fulfilling prophecy.
Regarding the home improvement aspect. I hope you inspected your house before you moved in. Yes, the homes in SH are generally circa 1910 -1930. Driving through SH this would seem obvious. As you might notice, most (not all) folks here tend to appreciate that each house had an arcitect design their home. They appreciate the materials used were/are top of the line. So I am sorry if someone gave you the impession that SH was a cookie-cutter suburb where every third house is the same, except maybe the garage is on the other side.
2. As said, the taxes in SH are the highest in the state. Nobody makes a secret of this. The schools get the bulk of the funding. I know of no city that picks up garbage more than once a week. Your garbage is also picked up in your backyard. Compare garbage day in SH to CLE H. You wont see garbage tumbling into the street in SH like you often do in CLE H. And if you have sidewalks in front of your house, you are responsible for keeping them up, just like you need to mow your tree lawn (not yours). Thats the deal everywhere. The city does run, when it has time, the plow up and down the sidewalks. THis is after all streets are clear of snow.
3. Agreed. Roads can get bad. I think in just about every town/city around here you will find this to be the case. Unfortunately as budgets get cut, road repair/replacement gets pushed back. Drive slower.
4. The library is very good, but you are right, in Ohio we are very lucky to have a great system. In a previous post I pointed out that this can be attributed to former Gov. James Rhodes and the funding mechanism he divised which automatically kept library's in the state budget.
5. I think the things you point out do eat the budget up. I believe SH services are better than any other city around here. The schools are great, they pick up my garbage/recycling in the back yard (albeit once a week), the lawn pick up, police/fire, etc..

So folks, I am trying to understand Shaker philosophy (because I am really not all that rich, and would like to save some money for my retirement and my kids' future, while I do appreciate sending my kids to nice schools, there is still life beyond school isn't there?); please let me know if I am missing something, I am definitely willing to revise my opinion.

Having said all this, it seems to me you were sold a bill of goods that doesnt jibe with your values and that is too bad. I would say the majority of the people in SH do put their children first and therefore take advantage of a great school system. Beyond that we appreciate living in a beautiful city with classically designed homes, each unique. We appreciate not living next to an industrial complex or mega shopping plex and living with the extra traffic this generates. We like to enjoy the Shaker Lakes, the Thornton pool and ice rink. Ride our bikes to breakfast on Saturday then enjoy the farmers market. Go to a movie in a family owned theater. Eat at restaurants where it is the only on in the world with that name, because it is not a chain. Live next like-minded people in similar situations and build lifelong friendships. I live near a major city with wonderful entertainment. I can take the Rapid Transit to downtown for a ballgame and skip out on sitting in traffic looking for a parking lot, pay for it and then get back in my car to sit in traffic going home. I am 10 minutes from world class healthcare.
And for this, and much more I am sure that I am missing, I am willing to pay higher taxes. It is not for everybody, and that should be OK, you just need to decide what you want. Good luck.

[hnks]

Thank you! Great info