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Old 04-16-2013, 09:28 AM
 
3,071 posts, read 7,575,783 times
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The county issue is why Duplin and Greene aren't included in the manner you propose. Both are places where the city you frequent depends where in the county you live, and it's broken up among several places. Depending on where you live in Duplin you're frequenting Wilmington, Fayetteville, Jacksonville, or Goldsboro. People in Greene County frequent Greenville, Goldsboro, Kinston, and Wilson depending on where they live.
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Greenville, NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP91 View Post
They took Greene Co away from Greenville, when in fact Greenville could have included Greene, Martin, Beaufort and Hyde....even Bertie and Washington for that matter.
The "Powers that be" in Pitt County and Greenville may not have wanted to be associated in the census with the much poorer counties that you named. Just removing Greene County jacked up the statistical income numbers for the Greenville Metropolitan Area.
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Old 04-16-2013, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Wilmington, NC
50 posts, read 92,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP91 View Post
We had hoped to have some clarity by the census in ENC...but its as clear as mud. The problem the census has is they seem unwilling to break up counties which causes changes that don't make sense. The Wilmington one is the easiest example...not including municipalities INSIDE of the Wilmington loop project within Wilmington's MSA...that's just stupid...and inherently incorrect. Too many stats and not enough common sense.

For Wilmington, not only the Brunswick Co thing but Columbus, Sampson and Duplin could all be included in Wilmington's
Couldn't agree more. Some people don't realize how big of an issue Brunswick County being taken from Wilmington MSA is. It cuts federal and state funding, businesses that want to locate somewhere look at MSA populations. If it's too small they automatically rule it out. It will affect growth very negatively and prevent businesses from coming here.
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:58 PM
 
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Just to bring a point of information:
Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) is a geographical region with a population over 50,000 at its core and close economic ties throughout the area

The counties containing the core urban area are known as the central counties of the Core Based Statistical Area (CBSA). Additional surrounding counties (known as outlying counties) can be included in the CBSA if these counties have strong social and economic ties to the central counties as measured by commuting and employment. Outlying counties are included in the CBSA if the employment interchange measure (total of in commuting and out commuting) is 25% or more, although these numbers are estimates, and exceptions are made

Micropolitan Statistical Areas are urban areas in the United States based around an urban cluster (urban area) with a population of 10,000 to 49,999

Combined Statistical Area (CSA) is a grouping of adjacent metropolitan and/or micropolitan statistical areas. They are defined based on social and economic ties measured by commuting patterns between adjacent MSAs.

The primary distinguishing factor between a CSA and an MSA is that the social and economic ties between the individual MSAs within a CSA are at lower levels than between the counties within an MSA. CSAs represent multiple metropolitan or micropolitan areas that have a moderate degree of employment interchange. CSAs often represent regions with overlapping labor and media markets.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:30 AM
 
2,215 posts, read 3,067,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Martin View Post
The "Powers that be" in Pitt County and Greenville may not have wanted to be associated in the census with the much poorer counties that you named. Just removing Greene County jacked up the statistical income numbers for the Greenville Metropolitan Area.
That's true...its kind of a catch 22...while the Greenville MSA population numbers go down, its per household number goes up....which can be good for its demographics projections.

In the Wilmington/Brunswick Co example...the Wilmington unemployment rate should drop and Myrtle Beach's should go up.

Those number changes however are not a reason to celebrate the changes...the changes are just wrong.

Consider this...if I live in Windsor (county seat of Bertie Co) and I get severely injured, where do they send me...Greenville. If I have to see a specialist for a condition I have I go to Greenville....If I want to go shopping at a Best Buy/Target/Dicks/JC Penney's, etc...I go to Greenville...if I want to go out to a nice dinner and a movie, I go to Greenville. If I want to see a play, attend an athletic event, etc...

Is that considered a strong social/economical tie? It can't just be work related, because maybe I'm retired and don't work...but I'm heading to Greenville at least a couple times a month.
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Old 04-17-2013, 01:41 PM
 
3,279 posts, read 4,953,711 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP91 View Post
That's true...its kind of a catch 22...while the Greenville MSA population numbers go down, its per household number goes up....which can be good for its demographics projections.

In the Wilmington/Brunswick Co example...the Wilmington unemployment rate should drop and Myrtle Beach's should go up.

Those number changes however are not a reason to celebrate the changes...the changes are just wrong.

Consider this...if I live in Windsor (county seat of Bertie Co) and I get severely injured, where do they send me...Greenville. If I have to see a specialist for a condition I have I go to Greenville....If I want to go shopping at a Best Buy/Target/Dicks/JC Penney's, etc...I go to Greenville...if I want to go out to a nice dinner and a movie, I go to Greenville. If I want to see a play, attend an athletic event, etc...

Is that considered a strong social/economical tie? It can't just be work related, because maybe I'm retired and don't work...but I'm heading to Greenville at least a couple times a month.
I agree, for anyone on this side of the Albemarle Sound who needs a semi-large city, they come to Greenville. But for Bertie to ever be considered, Martin County would have to be added first. Counties that touch can be added.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:56 AM
 
27,775 posts, read 24,814,471 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncwbwilm View Post
Oh. If only. It's all of Brunswick, because the Census Bureau and OMB seem to think Leland and Brunswick County are suburban Myrtle Beach instead of Wilmington even though about 85 percent of Brunswick County commutes to Wilmington on a daily basis....

Luckily Wilmington City Council and Brunswick County Council have already approved a request to have it put back. Mike McIntyre says he will do whatever he can to get Brunswick County back, and thinks the decision is RIDICULOUS.... And it most certainly is. Hopefully they will change it back. Guessing they will now that all the councils, our congressman, etc. are backing it.
Not being familiar with Brunswick County, I did think it strange that it got snatched from Wilmington's metro and added to Myrtle Beach's since Wilmington is more of a center of industry than Myrtle Beach. I know times are still tough, but I didn't think that THAT many people from Brunswick were heading into Horry County for low-wage service sector jobs.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeusAV View Post
I agree that the Wilmington-Brunswick thing is ridiculous. Don't know how in the world they came up with the idea to give Brunswick to Myrtle Beach.
They use commuting statistics to make this determination.

There are two options:
(A) The commuting statistics they are using are incorrect
or
(B) Brunswick County residents are commuting to Horry County more frequently than New Hanover County. (which is not THAT hard to believe.)


The bottom line is this: If you want people to commute into New Hanover for work, you have to build adequate transportation links between Brunswick and New Hanover. Right now the transportation is inadequate, and it doesn't take a transportation planner to figure that out.

So what's happening is that eastern Brunswick is developing, sure, it just isn't developing into the "bedroom community" for New Hanover that people expected it to. It is simply too time-consuming and unpredictable for very many people to cross the river multiple times per day, every day.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:26 AM
 
2,215 posts, read 3,067,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
They use commuting statistics to make this determination.

There are two options:
(A) The commuting statistics they are using are incorrect
or
(B) Brunswick County residents are commuting to Horry County more frequently than New Hanover County. (which is not THAT hard to believe.)


The bottom line is this: If you want people to commute into New Hanover for work, you have to build adequate transportation links between Brunswick and New Hanover. Right now the transportation is inadequate, and it doesn't take a transportation planner to figure that out.
Well, not trying to defend DOT here, but they did build a new bridge connecting the two during the last decade....and they are currently building a section of I-140 in Brunswick Co, with the next section to immediately follow....and the expansion of the causeway is on the books as well. This all should help in as such that the bypass traffic can actually bypass and not use the downtown interior bridges. There are also less and less bridge openings than in the past and the Martin Luther King Parkway was finished.

I do think the Carolina Byways bypass opening had an effect on commuting...if you are retired and live in western Brunswick Co, that road opened up more of the shopping areas to you...I can see why you wouldnt fight traffic in Wilmington to the mall or Mayfaire and instead go to Myrtle Beach. I think the real issue is whether to combine the two metro's or split Brunswick Co.
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Old 04-22-2013, 09:23 AM
 
22,770 posts, read 25,213,574 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP91 View Post
Well, not trying to defend DOT here, but they did build a new bridge connecting the two during the last decade....and they are currently building a section of I-140 in Brunswick Co, with the next section to immediately follow....and the expansion of the causeway is on the books as well.
too little too late IMO

honestly, this area was planned and developed by fat, stupid redneck developers trying to make a quick buck. It's insanely expensive to try and undo their bad decisions.

This rears its head in so many ways -- building developments that slow down traffic along commuter highways, building developments in areas that flood, building developments without proper road and stormwater infrastructure (and then complaining how the "government" made them pay for what minimal infrastructure they did install!) , building developments that block future transportation corridors, no plan for mass transit, no plan for pedestrian access and mixed use anything ....

NCDOT responds to political pressure and the "will of the people", and unfortunately many influential people in this area during the 1970's, 80's, and 90's were just garden-variety idiots who were just trying to make an easy buck.

Quote:
I think the real issue is whether to combine the two metro's or split Brunswick Co.
Combining the two metros is a federal decision; the state and the local government have zero control over that.

Splitting Brunswick County could be a good idea, but I seriously doubt that would ever happen. People who run these gov't's don't want to give up control.

Last edited by le roi; 04-22-2013 at 09:35 AM..
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