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Old 10-15-2014, 06:08 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
383 posts, read 746,407 times
Reputation: 214

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The Membership Scenario at a glance:

I found some interesting and important facts about both the Signature and Premier memberships that are important to consider when making your decision.

With the Signature Membership, the $15K expense ($20K after 1/1/2015) are a sunk cost. The membership is not transferable. If you were planning to throw it in as a selling point when listing your home - forget it. The new owner has to pay for the membership at the current cost, which will be $20K after 1/1/2015.

With the Premier Membership, the $30K expense ($40K after 1/1/2015) is not automatically 80% refunded if you sell your home. It is only refunded if the purchaser activates the Premier membership. Say you sell 5 years down the road and the Premier membership is increased to $50K. If your purchaser decides to activate a Signature membership because it is a lower cost or no membership at all, you do not get your 80% back. You have to wait until a future owner activated a Premier membership to get the 80%. You can also wait 30 years for the date you closed on your lot, but you have just given the clubs an interest free loan.

Some Financial Facts:

If you pay $15K for the Signature membership and invest the other $15K (difference between $30K Premier rate and current Signature rate) in an ETF fund with a 5% return, you will recoup your entire investment in 14 years. If you pay $30K for the Premier membership, move out of St. James after 10 year and have to wait an additional 20 years to get that money back. That $30K over the 20 year period at 5% compounded interest would provide the clubs $49,599 of interest revenue.

Interesting fact to consider before putting down hard earned money.
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Old 10-16-2014, 12:19 AM
 
17 posts, read 37,576 times
Reputation: 40
Default Premier or Signature

Quote:
Originally Posted by PonyPride View Post
The Membership Scenario at a glance:

I found some interesting and important facts about both the Signature and Premier memberships that are important to consider when making your decision.

With the Signature Membership, the $15K expense ($20K after 1/1/2015) are a sunk cost. The membership is not transferable. If you were planning to throw it in as a selling point when listing your home - forget it. The new owner has to pay for the membership at the current cost, which will be $20K after 1/1/2015.

With the Premier Membership, the $30K expense ($40K after 1/1/2015) is not automatically 80% refunded if you sell your home. It is only refunded if the purchaser activates the Premier membership. Say you sell 5 years down the road and the Premier membership is increased to $50K. If your purchaser decides to activate a Signature membership because it is a lower cost or no membership at all, you do not get your 80% back. You have to wait until a future owner activated a Premier membership to get the 80%. You can also wait 30 years for the date you closed on your lot, but you have just given the clubs an interest free loan.

Some Financial Facts:

If you pay $15K for the Signature membership and invest the other $15K (difference between $30K Premier rate and current Signature rate) in an ETF fund with a 5% return, you will recoup your entire investment in 14 years. If you pay $30K for the Premier membership, move out of St. James after 10 year and have to wait an additional 20 years to get that money back. That $30K over the 20 year period at 5% compounded interest would provide the clubs $49,599 of interest revenue.

Interesting fact to consider before putting down hard earned money.
I thought the Signature was the more expensive membership.
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Old 10-16-2014, 01:00 AM
 
17 posts, read 37,576 times
Reputation: 40
Default Membership confusion

Quote:
Originally Posted by City-Cath View Post
I thought the Signature was the more expensive membership.
Maybe you are correct. I was just going by the price I paid 7 years ago.
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Old 10-16-2014, 01:02 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
383 posts, read 746,407 times
Reputation: 214
Hi City-Cath,

Technically they do no use the term Premier anymore. Just Signature with the Membership/activation fee/application fee options being:

Current

$15,000/$5,000/$500
$30,000/$5,000/$500

1/1/2015

$20,000/$5,000/$500
$40,000/$5,000/$500
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Old 10-16-2014, 06:26 AM
 
17 posts, read 37,576 times
Reputation: 40
Default Rolling Stone

Quote:
Originally Posted by PonyPride View Post
Hi City-Cath,

Technically they do no use the term Premier anymore. Just Signature with the Membership/activation fee/application fee options being:

Current

$15,000/$5,000/$500
$30,000/$5,000/$500

1/1/2015

$20,000/$5,000/$500
$40,000/$5,000/$500
The membership is like a rolling stone. Never going to grow moss. My membership started in 2006 and the bill still says Premier. There was never a split back then. I paid 20K. I looked at the original paperwork and it looks to me that everyone got their deposit back after 30 years if they did not get it back via a sale. The have the right to cancel levels at any time too. The documents do not spell out the money part too well. They spend more pages on what you can wear. I bought my lot from the builder who was full of misinformation. I was told if I did not get a membership in 30 days of the lot purchase, then I would never be able to get one. We did not build for two years and were 20 years away from retirement at the time. On no planet is paying dues for 20 years for a product you will not use a good deal. Back then, the social dues were $45 and no food requirement. My biggest concern is there is no cap on how much they can increase the dues on a year over year basis. They just introduced the food purchase 3 years ago and with little fan fare. I owed $300 at the end of the first year because I ate nothing and had no idea I had to. The next year they lowered the non-resident food to $200, but next year they can increase it again if they want to. The whole thing is one sided. You sign up to pay them an unknown amount of money for privileges they have the discretion to grant or revoke. They also have the right to sell the golf course cancel all the memberships and refund the 80% and let the next owners set up what ever membership plans they want.

The whole golf club business is bit of a mess now. Not as many people are wanting memberships. In the equity type memberships, people cannot get out. Even when they die, the heirs have to keep paying the dues. Reminds me of a tune.

Even when you died
Oh, the clubs still hounded you
All that papers had to say
Was that the courts was found for Troon
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Old 10-16-2014, 07:24 AM
 
1,090 posts, read 1,975,887 times
Reputation: 387
Very interesting post Pony. Apparently all the on line Realty companies will have to change a lot of the verbage in the resale listings on Resales. A number of them highlight the "Signature Transfer" as a selling point.

I wonder what is driving all these changes. Any insights???




Quote:
Originally Posted by PonyPride View Post
The Membership Scenario at a glance:

I found some interesting and important facts about both the Signature and Premier memberships that are important to consider when making your decision.

With the Signature Membership, the $15K expense ($20K after 1/1/2015) are a sunk cost. The membership is not transferable. If you were planning to throw it in as a selling point when listing your home - forget it. The new owner has to pay for the membership at the current cost, which will be $20K after 1/1/2015.

With the Premier Membership, the $30K expense ($40K after 1/1/2015) is not automatically 80% refunded if you sell your home. It is only refunded if the purchaser activates the Premier membership. Say you sell 5 years down the road and the Premier membership is increased to $50K. If your purchaser decides to activate a Signature membership because it is a lower cost or no membership at all, you do not get your 80% back. You have to wait until a future owner activated a Premier membership to get the 80%. You can also wait 30 years for the date you closed on your lot, but you have just given the clubs an interest free loan.

Some Financial Facts:

If you pay $15K for the Signature membership and invest the other $15K (difference between $30K Premier rate and current Signature rate) in an ETF fund with a 5% return, you will recoup your entire investment in 14 years. If you pay $30K for the Premier membership, move out of St. James after 10 year and have to wait an additional 20 years to get that money back. That $30K over the 20 year period at 5% compounded interest would provide the clubs $49,599 of interest revenue.

Interesting fact to consider before putting down hard earned money.
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Old 10-16-2014, 08:53 AM
 
4,985 posts, read 2,234,404 times
Reputation: 7151
ST. JAMES GOLF COURSES AND AMENITIES

Golf Courses
Most of the recreational facilities in St. James Plantation are owned and maintained by four distinct golf clubs that are located within St. James Plantation – the Founders Club, the Members Club, the Players Club, and the Reserve Club. The recreational facilities located at these country clubs are available only to members of the clubs and to the general public upon payment of applicable fees. The purchase of a lot in St. James Plantation gives you no right to use these facilities unless you are accepted for membership in one of the clubs or otherwise permitted to use such facilities upon payment of applicable fees, and there is no assurance you will be accepted if you apply. Membership availability in any of the four (4) Clubs is based on the phase or section of St. James Plantation in which a lot is located. Categories of membership are subject to availability at the time of activation. The costs of such memberships are in addition to the cost of the property and no refund of the purchase price of the lot will be made if you cannot obtain a membership or a particular class of membership in one of these clubs.

Terms of Use - St. James Plantation


The Developer owns The Clubs and Troon Privé manages them.
A major concern of the property owners is whether and when there will be a transfer of ownership of The Clubs. The Developer emphasizes that there are no plans to sell The Clubs in the near future, but such a transaction could come at any time. Although members have no direct power to influence this transition, a future Clubs Committee, now part of the Transition Committee met to consider the various forms of transition that could take place and their respective impacts on the community. For the most part, property owners are left to count on the sensitivity of the Developer to property owner concerns for a seamless transition that will protect their interests and not impose a large financial burden on the St. James resident community, so long as the Developer is part of the St. James community.

SJP Comprehensive Plan IV March 2014
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Old 10-16-2014, 09:37 AM
 
17 posts, read 37,576 times
Reputation: 40
Default Real Estate Listing

Some of the listings should be rephrased "will support reissuance of Membership". If the seller has an active membership, the 5K can transfer. Some owners also apply what they will receive back from the refundable part to the buyer at closing and put phases like "must apply within 30 days of closing" in the contract. Then they will get back the 80% after they are accepted. If they are not accepted, then the seller has to wait 30 years from when they became members or a later buyer to qualify.

What I want to know is, I have I premier membership and when I joined in 2006, the FAQ for the clubs states that "Signature Members, Premier Members and Home Course Golf Members currently receive the following benefits: Refundable Membership Deposit ..."

Does the "currently" mean this something they can change or is it grandfathered to when you joined?
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Old 10-17-2014, 05:12 AM
 
23 posts, read 41,342 times
Reputation: 32
SaintJamesInsider | Just another WordPress site

Interesting things still going on
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Old 10-17-2014, 07:09 AM
 
1,090 posts, read 1,975,887 times
Reputation: 387
Just wondering, has anyone been "Not Accepted"? And why??




Quote:
Originally Posted by City-Cath View Post
Some of the listings should be rephrased "will support reissuance of Membership". If the seller has an active membership, the 5K can transfer. Some owners also apply what they will receive back from the refundable part to the buyer at closing and put phases like "must apply within 30 days of closing" in the contract. Then they will get back the 80% after they are accepted. If they are not accepted, then the seller has to wait 30 years from when they became members or a later buyer to qualify.

What I want to know is, I have I premier membership and when I joined in 2006, the FAQ for the clubs states that "Signature Members, Premier Members and Home Course Golf Members currently receive the following benefits: Refundable Membership Deposit ..."

Does the "currently" mean this something they can change or is it grandfathered to when you joined?
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