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Old 10-18-2014, 10:26 AM
Location: New Jersey
383 posts, read 746,551 times
Reputation: 214


LOL. I am far from "consumed with worry," but just think the Communication of changes in terms regarding the clubs could have been handled better. Advanced communication and getting the input of the community would have been nice. Ultimately, Troon can do what they want but I think most on this board would agree that it could have been handled in a more "customer friendly" way.
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Old 10-18-2014, 11:02 AM
45 posts, read 155,726 times
Reputation: 45
Originally Posted by Stonecreek67 View Post
But back to the original thought, why stay here ? I can't figure it out, if I were as unhappy with whatever you perceive to be so bad, I can tell you that I would not stay..... FACT, it's not going to change ! They are not going to lower the fees, they are not going to change anything at Legacy Park, etc. No petition is going to accomplish those things. They run this country club like place the way they run it and that is that, I personally am quite happy but if I were not, if I were as unhappy with things as "you" seem to be... I woud leave, as mentioned before, life is too short to be so unhappy, we left NJ because we were unhappy there and sought a better futire in retirement... we found it, obviously you did not. So to repeat, why do you stay ? You can leave just as others do for various reasons.

Though I'm not at all disgruntled with St James myself, I do find this comment a bit narrow minded. It sounds like the old political argument that if you don't like the way the government is run, you should just move to another country. As if having a different opinion than the prevailing majority instantly means that it's time ditch all ties and run for the hills.

Okay, comparing St James to politics is a bit of a stretch, and all this community negativity seems a bit much, but challenging ideas and decisions can be a good thing if done in the right way. For many St James residents, this is their final destination with no plans (or energy) to ever move again. Friends are made, social networks are created, and roots are established. So something changes in the Town (such as Legacy Park) that may be upsetting for some. You can't just expect folks to pick up and leave. They're invested in St James just like any other resident. Vocal minority, yes (and maybe a bit too vocal), but they are still part of the community and can't be expected to just say bye to all their friends (roots) and call it a day.
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Old 10-18-2014, 11:04 AM
Location: Southport, NC
93 posts, read 168,590 times
Reputation: 65
Put me in the camp that thinks things could definitely have been communicated better AND changing "rules" for those who have already plunked down their $$ (without a grandfather clause) does not seem appropriate. By rules, I do NOT mean monthly dues increases or even raising the membership front-end costs (although the % change does seem high there); I specifically mean changes that limit access to facilities (e.g., the number of golf outings and/or practice facilities). A grandfather provision should have been considered IMO.


Last edited by Gatorbyter; 10-18-2014 at 12:29 PM..
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Old 10-18-2014, 03:05 PM
4,985 posts, read 2,235,360 times
Reputation: 7152
Joining "The Clubs" is pretty much playing cards with a stacked deck. You put up the cash and the The Clubs holds all the trump cards.

The Clubs have in the past "grandfathered" members on some points. Looking at the Membership Plan, there are appendices the provide "Special Provision Applicable to ....." in a few cases that go back to 1997, 1999, and 2005.

Individuals that decide to join The Clubs at this point are in effect not being guaranteed anything. The current Membership plan allows the Club Owner (which is the developer, not Troon) to modify the membership plan including rules and regulations, membership categories, use of facilities and pretty much any thing else they want. Everything related to the member is a "privilege". It seems a member has few if any rights.

"The Club Owner may change the services provided to Members, and the hours of operation of the Club Facilities without prior notice. The Club is not owned or operated by the Members and Members do not have a right to vote on any matters." Section VII of The Clubs at St. James Plantation Membership Plan
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Old 10-19-2014, 07:06 AM
907 posts, read 1,534,680 times
Reputation: 1901
I live in Reading, PA where 5 years ago we had 4 private country clubs. Today two have gone public and mine just went semi private. Golf rounds are down all across the US. SJP going forward may have an issue with their 4 courses. Materials to run a course have gone up in price way beyond inflation. Younger people see it as an "old man's game" and don't have the time or desire to spend 5 hours chasing a ball. Homeowners, golfers or not like the look of a course in the neighborhood. The negative cash flow from the golf "assets" will continue to be subsidized by the SJP population through dues and surcharges. Just an example of what the future may hold, Ocean Ridge put up the "white flag" on their fourth course.

SJP is beautiful but that beauty comes at a price and I believe that price is going up in the future.
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Old 10-19-2014, 07:38 AM
Location: New Jersey
794 posts, read 1,645,778 times
Reputation: 343
You are correct Caco... SJP is beautiful and that beauty comes at a price.... PRECISELY.... my point exactly.

The amenities, clubhouses, restaurants, security, fire and rescue equipment and how the place is kept come at a price.... there are many, many places to live down here if you are looking for a nice house on a grassy street that does not come with the price same tag for amenties. AND, unlike Reading, young people are not coming down here, OLD people are.

BTW, attended the Italian Clubs' Bacifest and outdoor dinner last night at the Waterway Park, very nice time. Brought up the subject of Legacy Park at our table of twelve, the consensus was "and so ? "... pretty big tado about not very much.... did soeone do something untoward deliberately ? Maybe, maybe not..... and the lot line thing will get straightened out one way or another and most will be happy about it and a few will never be happy about it..... cannot please everyone. Also mentioned that the initiation fee for club membership is being raised in January..... as several chimed in, they change stuff all the time, in fact since the beginning they have been GIVING away club memberships for FREE with certain lot purchases and that practice continues to this very day, some people pay for the membership and some people do not..... is that fair ? ...so that's life. The same with the limiting of some golf privileges, they make the rules and they can change them, as it says in all the papers you sign when you join.... as someone else said it's the same in most country clubs up north.

Still a very nice place to live, but please stay away we do not want it to get crowded.
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Old 10-19-2014, 08:51 AM
38 posts, read 70,885 times
Reputation: 33
Very true Stoney, you get what you pay for and certainly SJP has delivered on the amenities.

I can understand the lack of concern from the folks at the table regarding the change in initiation fees as the "new" initiation fee structure would not affect any current members. I would probably give the same response if I were a resident "member" at the table or I had no interest in dining or recreating at the clubs with fellow residents.

Yeah, I'm whining about it because as you said the fees are going up and there's nothing you can do about it (paraphrased). So grant me the courtesy of whining from way up here in Central New York. I promise to stop when we arrive at the gate! BTW snow in the air on the hilltops this morning..."Goin' to Carolina in my mind"
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Old 10-19-2014, 09:15 AM
Location: New Jersey
794 posts, read 1,645,778 times
Reputation: 343
Snow... snow... oh yeah, I remember, it's that white stuff that you guys have up there.

Yeah, whining is ok, maybe it's a bit too harsh to say get out if you don't like it, then again, maybe not. We belonged to two country clubs in NJ ( not simultaneously ) and each had the same type of language in the papers you sign to join... that old "caveat emptor" comes to mind. One must do their own homework, if you rely on the "salesman" being 100% straight with you on buying anything then I suggest that is a mistake, at least on a large purchase that very well may be the last big purchase that you ever make. But reading the papers in detail on that big purchase might be something to consider before signing them.

In addition, someone asked if people are actually not accepted as members, perhaps I'm wrong but I don't think anyone has ever been denied membership but I believe they reserve that right because if fines ( speeding or otherwise ) are not paid they put them on your house as a lien ( what other choice do they have if you don't pay them ) and they check when you apply and you have to clear them up before membership.... they are only interested in the $$, nothing wrong with that IMO.

On another note it is just a lovely, sunny, breezy day today, Tommy's is pretty full inside and out for breakfast as there is that Parade of homes this weekend and beaucoup people are here to look.... must be something about the place that attracts them.... I certainly hope they decide it's not for them and go back home.

Just got back from inspecting our new home and we anticipate getting in on November 15th, that is if we can get the freaking builder to get off the dime and get the finishing stuff done.

Last edited by Stonecreek67; 10-19-2014 at 10:13 AM..
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Old 10-19-2014, 10:21 AM
154 posts, read 186,516 times
Reputation: 131
Anytime you purchase a home in a development (plantation) that is under the control of the developer, you are taking a risk. You can only hope that the developer will leave up to his promises and deliver on his part of the deal. When the developer leaves and turns over the control to the homeowners, you will see the details and costs associated with your community.
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Old 10-20-2014, 02:58 PM
1,090 posts, read 1,976,647 times
Reputation: 387
Get ready Nancy!!!!!!!!


Originally Posted by texas tim View Post

By the way,the security guard you referred to now works at Ocean Ridge Plantation.She checked us in this week when we golfed there.
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