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Old 01-21-2019, 07:43 AM
 
3,285 posts, read 5,433,142 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP91 View Post
Its just a blip. Apparently there was less high school graduates this past year compared to the year before. It didnt hurt some of the other schools because of the "promise" tuition.

With the new Student Center in play, a new Theater for bands opening, the 10th St Connector getting finished and continuing development downtown, there is no way the freshman enrollment will continue to drop. The quality of student is no worse either. Its a non starter. And as for the dorms, they need to continue to be renovated to entice freshmen students who are required to live in them. They are long term investments.
I donít want my sentiments to be perceived as anti-Greenville, anti-growth or anything of that nature. I wasnít attempting to make the argument that somehow Greenville is in decline because of a ďbadĒ year of enrollment, but rather in a more competitive environment, Greenville and ECU should be coordinating to make both more appealing. Chancellor Staton wants ECU to become the next great national university, and God, so do I, but I also want to continue elevating the City of Greenville.

I feel in ECUís mission to become a great university, that does require coordination. It absolutely has to be deliberate; we canít stumble into improving the quality-of-life for our residents, we canít stumble into the top 100 universities in the US, we canít stumble into developing top-tier research facilities. ECU is definitely heading in the right direction, but people are impatient in respect to seeing ECU become a true research school. Iíve seen people argue in The Daily Reflector how we shouldnít focus too much on research but rather athletics/football in order to attract more students. I do hope those voices are in the minority, but on the other hand ECUís actions in respect to bolstering the athletics department suggest otherwise.

Last edited by BMORE; 01-21-2019 at 08:01 AM..
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Old 01-21-2019, 03:36 PM
 
137 posts, read 140,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMORE View Post
I donít want my sentiments to be perceived as anti-Greenville, anti-growth or anything of that nature. I wasnít attempting to make the argument that somehow Greenville is in decline because of a ďbadĒ year of enrollment, but rather in a more competitive environment, Greenville and ECU should be coordinating to make both more appealing. Chancellor Staton wants ECU to become the next great national university, and God, so do I, but I also want to continue elevating the City of Greenville.

I feel in ECUís mission to become a great university, that does require coordination. It absolutely has to be deliberate; we canít stumble into improving the quality-of-life for our residents, we canít stumble into the top 100 universities in the US, we canít stumble into developing top-tier research facilities. ECU is definitely heading in the right direction, but people are impatient in respect to seeing ECU become a true research school. Iíve seen people argue in The Daily Reflector how we shouldnít focus too much on research but rather athletics/football in order to attract more students. I do hope those voices are in the minority, but on the other hand ECUís actions in respect to bolstering the athletics department suggest otherwise.
Academics are more important than athletics, but the academic side of the university will not progress nearly as fast without greater numbers of kids applying and wanting to attend ECU. Athletic success is the primary thing that attracts more applicants to most schools, outside of Ivy League caliber schools. The more students who want to come to ECU means higher quality students who end up attending and more students ECU enrolls and the increasing number of "professional" degrees awarded means more funding from the state and greater donations from future alumni. Just my opinion.
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Old 01-21-2019, 05:57 PM
 
3,285 posts, read 5,433,142 times
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Originally Posted by GoingLocal View Post
Academics are more important than athletics, but the academic side of the university will not progress nearly as fast without greater numbers of kids applying and wanting to attend ECU. Athletic success is the primary thing that attracts more applicants to most schools, outside of Ivy League caliber schools. The more students who want to come to ECU means higher quality students who end up attending and more students ECU enrolls and the increasing number of "professional" degrees awarded means more funding from the state and greater donations from future alumni. Just my opinion.
Not to discredit what youíre saying, but it would be interesting to see the statistics of how many prospective students want to attend a university based upon the success of a schools atheltic program. Considering these are both of our opinions, Iíd like to imagine most students are applying based on the location of the university + how successful the school is academically. If Greenville were to be more attractive, I can imagine more students wanting to apply (and especially those outside of East/Coastal Carolina). No, that isnít to suggest Greenville has the same level of attraction as, say, Elizabeth City (Greenville, IMO, is much better) but when applying for a school, one must also think of life after university and an area that would provide the most opportunity. Why not go to university in a city that one can also live in a few years afterwards?

Edit:

I found a few articles online about what the primary reason students choose one school over another. Thought you might want to read this:

https://www.usnews.com/education/blo...college-choice

Last edited by BMORE; 01-21-2019 at 06:09 PM..
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Old 01-21-2019, 06:20 PM
 
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Its not athletics alone....its about the QOL of the student while they are there. Thats is why nice housing, nice facilities, and things to do (including athletics) is all part of the equation.

Its a competition for the best students, then educate and entertain them in a college town environment. Downtown's growth is absolutely tied to the University's growth and aspirations.
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:02 PM
 
293 posts, read 270,529 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMORE View Post
Not to discredit what youíre saying, but it would be interesting to see the statistics of how many prospective students want to attend a university based upon the success of a schools atheltic program. Considering these are both of our opinions, Iíd like to imagine most students are applying based on the location of the university + how successful the school is academically. If Greenville were to be more attractive, I can imagine more students wanting to apply (and especially those outside of East/Coastal Carolina). No, that isnít to suggest Greenville has the same level of attraction as, say, Elizabeth City (Greenville, IMO, is much better) but when applying for a school, one must also think of life after university and an area that would provide the most opportunity. Why not go to university in a city that one can also live in a few years afterwards?

Edit:

I found a few articles online about what the primary reason students choose one school over another. Thought you might want to read this:

https://www.usnews.com/education/blo...college-choice
They didn't ask about athletics outright but it could be included in the question about "social" scene and at 40% that is a large percentage. Winning absolutely matters, see links below. That's not to say it is the be all end all. ECU must become more than its football program. However to do that sooner rather than later it needs a successful football team (and basketball and anything else it can get). Greenville is no different IMO, ECU's success buoys the city, but for the sake of the institution and the city they must also be more than just ECU football.

A school's athletic success raises applicant interest - The State Press
https://www.redandblack.com/uganews/...16b9b58ff.html
http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/devi...j%20sports.pdf
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...otball-success
https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/...ans-el/486226/
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Old 01-21-2019, 08:28 PM
 
137 posts, read 140,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancisDrake View Post
They didn't ask about athletics outright but it could be included in the question about "social" scene and at 40% that is a large percentage. Winning absolutely matters, see links below. That's not to say it is the be all end all. ECU must become more than its football program. However to do that sooner rather than later it needs a successful football team (and basketball and anything else it can get). Greenville is no different IMO, ECU's success buoys the city, but for the sake of the institution and the city they must also be more than just ECU football.

A school's athletic success raises applicant interest - The State Press
https://www.redandblack.com/uganews/...16b9b58ff.html
http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/devi...j%20sports.pdf
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...otball-success
https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/...ans-el/486226/
Here's another article on the effect winning athletic teams have on the increased rate of student applications:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/hbswork.../#4a248b466e96
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Old 01-22-2019, 07:20 AM
 
Location: Greenville, NC
1,070 posts, read 983,453 times
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If you think anyone is choosing ECU because of its academic qualifications you are living in a dream world. Now maybe academic environment where a marginal student can achieve success? Sure I'll go with that. But come on back down to earth. If someone wants to be a doctor and they can get into UNC, Duke, or WFU, they sure as hell are not coming here.

Also the majority of 16-17 year olds do not apply to a university based on where they want to live afterwards. If it's desirable they may stick around afterwards, but unless we are talking about NYC or something it's definitely not the reason they come in the first place.
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Old 01-22-2019, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Greenville, NC
163 posts, read 114,388 times
Reputation: 59
If someone wants to be a doctor and can get into UNC-Duke-WFU they may yet attend ECU. The cost of medical school at Brody is far, far below the schools you listed and Brody is considered an excellent school for family medicine among other disciplines.

As someone who was admitted to UNC's School of Government--far and away a better SOG than ECU's MPA program--I'm nonetheless in the program here because (a) the quality of ECU's program is greater than its perception and (b) I'm not taking on 50K in debt per year. Are my roots here? Sure, but UNC's a 2-hour drive, I could have done it if I wanted to. If ECU advertised its programs more, I have no doubt its perception would rise. The university is uniformly terrible at controlling the narrative around itself.

So long as ECU continues to be overlooked by the Board of Governors the university will continue to be hindered in its goal of being a significant research institution. All the athletics investment in the world won't help if the highest-caliber professors don't perceive the institution as being capable of supporting them.

Garnet, you're spot on re: students not choosing a school for where they'd like to live afterwards. Retention of as many as we can muster is a great target for Greenville, but we should likewise be targeting young professionals moving here (and thus targeting growth industries where young professionals are headed).
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Old 01-22-2019, 09:43 AM
 
2,401 posts, read 3,357,134 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarnetAndBlack View Post
If you think anyone is choosing ECU because of its academic qualifications you are living in a dream world. Now maybe academic environment where a marginal student can achieve success? Sure I'll go with that. But come on back down to earth. If someone wants to be a doctor and they can get into UNC, Duke, or WFU, they sure as hell are not coming here.

Also the majority of 16-17 year olds do not apply to a university based on where they want to live afterwards. If it's desirable they may stick around afterwards, but unless we are talking about NYC or something it's definitely not the reason they come in the first place.
Roughly half the Doctors that graduate from ECU are UNC grads. Been that way for decades.

And ECU through its Honors college gives priorities for its Med school applications. So there are definitely kids that come to ECU that want to be Doctors (or other professions) that have gotten into Duke, UNC, Wake, UVA, Johns Hopkins, Ivy League, etc...

ECU is getting better students (at the top end) than its EVER gotten.
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Old 01-22-2019, 10:32 AM
 
3,285 posts, read 5,433,142 times
Reputation: 1064
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarnetAndBlack View Post
If you think anyone is choosing ECU because of its academic qualifications you are living in a dream world. Now maybe academic environment where a marginal student can achieve success? Sure I'll go with that. But come on back down to earth. If someone wants to be a doctor and they can get into UNC, Duke, or WFU, they sure as hell are not coming here.

Also the majority of 16-17 year olds do not apply to a university based on where they want to live afterwards. If it's desirable they may stick around afterwards, but unless we are talking about NYC or something it's definitely not the reason they come in the first place.
Of course many, if not the majority, of students matriculating at ECU arenít attending because on its academic prowess, but rather in many cases because theyíre from our region and/or it wasnít their first choice. Iíd need to be smoking some strong Mary Jane to think otherwise. I do think a significant number of students apply for a college in a city that they want to stick around in, hence why ECU (and many other schools) isnít their first choice.

As BikePed said, top-caliber professors arenít going to want to teach at a university that canít support them; but to dive-deeper, weíd be able to attract more students outside of our region if the city itself were attractive and those students would absolutely require top-tier professors. ECU itself is on a decent trajectory, albeit it can be changed on a whim (eg, firing Staton in-favor of a Chancellor even more pro-Athletics) and therefore, as aforementioned, a committee must be established between ECU and Greenville in order to work on attractiveness together.

Frankly, I refuse to believe that if a prospective student came to Greenville with their parents/classmates and they saw some mind-blowing beauty and innovation in Uptown, then they arrive on ECU campus that they would see ECU as their last option. No, ECU still wonít be UNC-Chapel Hill in academics nor Clemson in football/athletics but weíd rise considerably in the eyes of such students. Seeing new student housing is cool, but ya know whatís even cooler? Art, statues, having a pedestrian mall, interactive displays in Uptown, live performers (Uptown Greenville is currently working on this), a top-tier park, and much, more more.

I have this dream belief that Iíve said here many times before people want to be part of something bigger. If both ECU and Greenville were more transparent and visionary about what we will become over the next few years, Iíd like to think more people would be interested in our city and ECU. People love being in up-and-coming places, places with a vision, places that are consistently asking themselves ďhow can we be better?Ē and Greenville is slowly getting there but many of us, and especially me, want progress to be quicker and more transparent.
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