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Old 09-14-2015, 11:47 AM
 
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Raleigh is also putting a new train/bus station in their downtown area as well. Raleigh Union Station.

I think the one here in Greenville can have the power to help transform that section of downtown, as long as it is well maintained and secured. More people moving to that immediate area should cause a larger focus to be placed on keeping that area safe. I would imagine that GPD would have a presence there with an officer or two on duty for much of the day/night.
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Old 09-14-2015, 12:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BullGoodBearBad View Post
I'm excited about all of the new developments coming to downtown greenville. That said, (and I hate to be a negative nancy) I ask the same questions. I've never seen a transit center/bus depot/etc. that wasn't full of loiterers. They're always fairly sketchy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HP91 View Post
I think the context there though would be that the Police Dept is right there. And the parking lot will be well lighted, likely fenced, etc...and bordered by the RR tracks.
The police dept. will be blocked from viewing people walking because of the new apt. building. It's not like they're looking out the windows anyway. Your best hope is that an officer is also walking when you're walking. As they approach, are you sure it's an officer coming towards you, or is it someone who's been hanging around the bus station looking for a mark? Like the poster said, bus stations are always sketchy. I grew up poor and moved around. I've seen plenty of bus stations, and no matter how thick I am to urban conditions; I've never once thought I'd like to hang around the area immediately surrounding a bus station. No way I'd live next to one. How safe should a 20 year old female student feel getting home from her restaurant job or study group after midnight, and having to walk down there? Bus station or not? Well lit or not? Anyone want their daughter, sister or girlfriend doing that once, let alone on the regular?

Let's forget safety (or even just a feeling of it) for a minute. What about bad weather? Two blocks in the rain, in the occasional snow, in the cold? If you need to do laundry, but you don't own machines; so you use a laundromat (if there's no laundry in the building). Gotta haul it all two blocks and back. You've been holiday shopping, and now you should lug your packages two blocks? Grocery shopping: You've got 8 bags, a gallon of milk, a jug of Tide, a 24 pack of water, and a case of beer, and you're parked two blocks away. I suppose you can temporarily park in one of the 39 spots that are for the retail stores and then take your car back down to the lot. So you go to your car, shop, park up front, make 2 or 3 trips to your car (possibly using stairs), throw your perishables in the refrigerator (hoping you didn't miss any because the grocery clerk didn't seperate them), run back to your car, drive it down the street, park, walk back, put the rest of your groceries away, and then - you gotta lay down and take a nap because you're worn out by being the victim of logistics. I'm tired just thinking about it! And god forbid if it's raining during all of this!

Mayor Thomas says there is a deck to be built adjacent to this new complex (but not by the owners of the building). If development in that area doesn't happen fast enough, how many years will it take to build this deck? Thomas did not specify where it would be. I assume it will be near the transit center. So either right next to it on Pitt St. or behind it on Clark (a block away).

Taft-Ward took it upon themselves to build parking decks with their two current projects. The owners here should be required to build their own as well. I think the city sees the tax base dollars that this complex brings, and is willing to do this no matter what. If downtown were more of a true urban area - with an urban food market especially, there could be people who simply don't need a car. Greenville is a town where you need a car, and probably always will be. Unless 30 years from now they bring that train service to the transit center, but that will only bring more noise to that apartment complex.
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Old 09-14-2015, 12:17 PM
 
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Not directly related to Greenville, but Fayetteville has made a serious proposal for a minor league baseball team. Another CD user has posted this video here.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/41176556-post302.html

Looks pretty nice! I know Fayetteville has a coastal plains team that would probably be going away with the new minor league team coming in. which could end up letting Greenville acquire the team. I don't think that Kinston is a serious minor league option any longer, and could take in a CPL team. I'd much rather see Greenville try to get a plan together for a stadium and a team.
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Old 09-14-2015, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Greenville, NC
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I just find it ridiculous that they're going to park the police cars that far from the station. In a situation like the Wal Mart shooting, when it's all hands on deck, detectives and officers on desk duty all go flying from the station to assist. I saw police car makes and models that day that I didn't even know we had. Now they will need to run 2-3 blocks to get to the cars...??

I like development but this is kind of a loser situation. Build the apartments where they want the new lot and leave the existing lot alone.
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Old 09-14-2015, 01:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil A. Delphia View Post

Let's forget safety (or even just a feeling of it) for a minute. What about bad weather? Two blocks in the rain, in the occasional snow, in the cold? If you need to do laundry, but you don't own machines; so you use a laundromat (if there's no laundry in the building). Gotta haul it all two blocks and back. You've been holiday shopping, and now you should lug your packages two blocks? Grocery shopping: You've got 8 bags, a gallon of milk, a jug of Tide, a 24 pack of water, and a case of beer, and you're parked two blocks away. I suppose you can temporarily park in one of the 39 spots that are for the retail stores and then take your car back down to the lot. So you go to your car, shop, park up front, make 2 or 3 trips to your car (possibly using stairs), throw your perishables in the refrigerator (hoping you didn't miss any because the grocery clerk didn't separate them), run back to your car, drive it down the street, park, walk back, put the rest of your groceries away, and then - you gotta lay down and take a nap because you're worn out by being the victim of logistics. I'm tired just thinking about it! And god forbid if it's raining during all of this!
Lots of hypotheticals here...but this scenario is actually a reality that many people in more urban areas have to deal with every day, and they seem to do fine with it. If someone chooses to live in the new "grown up" development on Dickinson (or live & work anywhere downtown), they have to understand that everything they want or need is not going to be within a 5-10 minute walk like it would be if they drove their car.

Also, 2 blocks in Greenville NC is not even close to the distance that 2 blocks in NYC or Chicago or even Raleigh would be. It would definitely be a hassle trying to do all of that you describe , but for someone to live and/or work there, it is a choice they have to make and understand the pros and cons of doing it.

There are some people that would love to be able to walk out of their apartment on the corner of Dickinson on a Saturday afternoon, walk down to a Brewery for a tour/tasting, then walk a block over to the GTAC to catch a bus and do shopping at Target or Harris Teeter, take the bus back to the GTAC(with bags in hand), walk a block back to their apartment, then meet their friend for dinner & drinks downstairs in one of the new restaurants that opened in the mixed use space, then walk over to the newly renovated theater for a live music show, then walk back home in a well lit, safe-feeling place. I think it can happen.

Last edited by michealbond; 09-14-2015 at 01:10 PM..
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Old 09-14-2015, 01:42 PM
 
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Wow...some of you guys need to be more visionary.

First the Apartments/Commercial space HAS to be on Dickinson/Reade. That is not only consistent with the neighborhood (you are putting in a Brewery and Science Center a block away), it puts the Apartments (people) closer to downtown. Parking lots are where you want them to be, not always adjacent to a building (too many people only know the SPRAWL concept). A fully functioning downtown puts the store fronts on the streets and people above them. Parking goes where ever.

As for the City giving something to this deal...they did with the Boundary as well....they closed a street and sold/gave them the land prior to the Boundary being announced.

Finally, as for safety...I keep harping on the RR tracks, because IMO, that is a physical boundary the City can close off. Think about all the access points across the tracks at Dowdy Ficklen Stadium....all 2 of them. At Stadium Drive and Charles Blvd. People have to walk around to get to 14th Street. Same concept can exist here...there is ZERO bad neighborhoods (I don't consider Nathaniel Village to be bad) before those tracks and people can be made to access West Greenville ONLY via W 5th Street or at the 10th St Connector. So why again would you have bus travelers "milling" around the bus station. And why again would it be unsafe?

Dickinson is going to change...BIG TIME. Forget about what it was. The Sidewalk group is coming in BECAUSE of that plan and the city's will to FINALLY implement something. While the 10th St Connector is under construction you want as many projects in the Dickinson corridor as possible. Because once that opens, that bridge should be the Gateway into a new downtown...one that has existed in...ever.

A can definitely see a parking deck in that area eventually. Just watch what happens in the next 10 years starting in October when the 10th St projects gets started. The Boundary was a long time Georgetowne re-development project. It was a no-brainer location. This other stuff is transformational where you have to forget everything you know about the area before. Just look at what the removal of buildings has done...consider what happens when you start putting something NICE back in its place.

And did someone say you had to have a car in Greenville? There are tons of college students that don't have cars. You don't have to have a car to live in Greenville.
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Old 09-14-2015, 01:56 PM
 
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Just for people that may not feel safe at the new GTAC, According to floor plans, there is a dedicated space for a police presence. It might solve every issue, but I would think having on duty police officers in that immediate area would help deter 99% of potential crimes there.

Greenville, NC : Project Details

Like HP is saying, we can't look at was is currently in that area, but look at what will eventually be in that area. This is uncharted territory for Greenville. I, for one, can't wait to see the finished product.
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Old 09-14-2015, 02:06 PM
 
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If you don't think that there will be extensive police presence at this bus station, consider the planning and $$ that went into cleaning up 5th st with cops Thursday-Sunday. They've learned that lesson, no public space that could even be remotely threatened by crime in this downtown area will be without police presence. Otherwise, all of their efforts and the public and private money spent to revitalize will be null and void because of a fixable and controllable problem. The current leadership knows better, and Thomas and his staff have a track record of making police presence priority #1 (I already mentioned downtown, but see also the W 5th St. Police Substation)

The last thing that people should be worried about is whether or not cops are going to be around. That, at this point, is one of the bragging points given to private dev firms like Sidewalk. It's a PROMISE that these areas are now and will be safe.
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Old 09-15-2015, 12:31 AM
 
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Wow...I'm not "visionary" because I disagree with ONE aspect of ONE project. Thanks. Thanks a lot.

You can make it two if you count wanting to build a minor league park on Dickinson on the other side of the 10th St connector, instead of actually inside the downtown boundary. Let's forget about how I clearly support everything else the city has done/is doing.

GTAC most likely not be open 24/7. When it closes (probably at 10 or 11 PM), the police substation closes. Why wouldn't it? The regular station is one block over.

I'm fully aware of what urban residents do. Add what you want to our downtown, it's still too small to add enough to where a lot of people won't seek out stores, etc. beyond the city's center. I still see Greenville as always being a car town. There aren't too many people willing to walk and/or bus unless they absolutely have to. I think Taft-Ward agrees with me. They make sure their facilities have garages, despite being right on top of campus and the core of downtown. The students walk and/or bus because it's cheaper and not a hassle; or they don't want to need a DD on party-at-the-club night. They still bring their cars to town. This is not the large urban cities where you ditch the car because you rarely need it. Downtown Greenville will be an urban environment, but it'll have a limited urban experience. The overwhelming majority of its residents will keep their cars. It'd be foolish not to plan for the residents convenience. They'll move before they go carless.
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Old 09-15-2015, 06:55 AM
 
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Well Phil...I completely agree with the ballpark situation. If a ballpark went in to downtown Greenville, it would have to go in 2 places, IMO. Either on the Town Common. Or in the 10th St Warehouse District...I would envision as part of the Ficklen Warehouse renovation...create a shopping/entertainment/arts destination there attached to a ballpark...similar to say, the Cotton Exchange in Downtown Wilmington. The ballpark itself could front on 10th St and be very visible.

I think that is 10-15 years away though. The reason being is because downtown Greenville has to be re-developed first...and this Sidewalk project is a Catalyst in that re-development. You would have to assume that the "market rate" apartments would get the surface parking shown...and the student apartments would not (and would be cheaper). So yes, an ECU student (and lots of them do) can live there and not have a car...I have to assume that is what they are thinking when it comes to the parking.

And for the record I was referencing the "visionary" part in regards to "safety" issue. Once the projects we know about are done, it will change drastically...and consider the projects that are going to piggyback on those others. I like the idea of another Parking Deck site...it can help serve the City as well as establishments like Go Science and Long Leaf...and certainly this complex could lease out some. Plus it takes up space and people know there will be a spot when they consider going downtown...which helps them in their decision. Everyone in Greenville always knew parking decks were needed, but the City leaders (and ECU leaders) never seemed able to deliver.
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