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Old 08-07-2010, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Moving through this etheria
430 posts, read 513,082 times
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I just heard some disquieting news about possible new legislation that would require some record keeping for acquisition and sales of numismatic coins. The Obama admin wants to tax (of course) those previously untraceables.

What would happen at a coin show, for instance?

Would we have a new agency, sort of like the BATF at a gun show, sting-shopping around the place to see if you filled out "the new form" when you sold that 1750s gold coin?

Yikes. Is nothing sacred? (I suppose I don't really want the answer to that question...)
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Old 08-07-2010, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Buffalo, trying to leave
1,228 posts, read 3,308,797 times
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Yep, I don't make much money so I buy and sell coins to make around an extra $200 each week... It really scares me, I half wonder if we are going to have to have a black market for coins, and hide them from the inspector, kind of like how people hid their gold during FDR's reign.
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Old 08-07-2010, 01:45 PM
 
Location: No. Virginia, USA
328 posts, read 475,129 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibumi View Post
I just heard some disquieting news about possible new legislation that would require some record keeping for acquisition and sales of numismatic coins. The Obama admin wants to tax (of course) those previously untraceables.

What would happen at a coin show, for instance?

Would we have a new agency, sort of like the BATF at a gun show, sting-shopping around the place to see if you filled out "the new form" when you sold that 1750s gold coin?

Yikes. Is nothing sacred? (I suppose I don't really want the answer to that question...)

could you provide a link to this?

I'm no tax expert, but have bought and sold coins. As far as I know, the tax laws make a distinction between people who sell coins for a profit (i.e. on E-bay and at coin shows etc.) and people who engage in coin collecting as a hobby but make an occasional profit on the sale of a coin.

Currently capital gains have to be reported, whether generated by the sale of a home, stocks, or coins. So if you are buying coins to sell on e-bay you already are supposed to be keeping records of your basis and sales price. Nothing new there. I think what your saying is you want to engage in a profit making activity that is untraceable to the tax authorities. Apparently the feds realize this is going on and want to stop this tax leakage. I must side with them on this - unless you can lay out a good case for why such activity should remain untrceable.

Last edited by Chasva69; 08-07-2010 at 02:51 PM..
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Old 08-07-2010, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Moving through this etheria
430 posts, read 513,082 times
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Nah; no such nefarious intent. I heard this new info from a coin collecting friend and I'll see if he can provide a link. My understanding is that, as of now, if you buy boullion coins (a new Eagle, for instance) and then sell them, the buyer must send info to the Feds. No? Yes?

But if you only engage in personal, private collection and later sale of numismatics, you're exempt.

According to the capital gains laws, I assume that even if I were to buy, let's say, a Weatherby rifle in 1980 for $400 [in 1980 dollars], and then sell it today for, say, $900 [in 2010 dollars] I'd have to declare a capital gain?

Does anyone actually do this? Do we then get to declare when we buy a 2003 Honda Accord for $30k and sell it 5 years later for only $20k, the accompanying loss? I mean, what's fair on the "up" side should be fair on the "down", no? Yes, you got fair use out of the Honda, but didn't you also get fair use out of your house and your rifle?

We lost on both houses we bought in SoCal (bought high, sold low; don't follow this advice if you know what's good for you!) and we didn't claim any such losses. Could we have?

You mean the government might [or does...] owe me money?

Get me Obama's private phone line would you? and make it snappy: I'm running a bit light on funds these days....
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Old 08-07-2010, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
1,448 posts, read 4,309,169 times
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I'm no tax expert, but this seems to be just a reporting requirement so that these items can be properly taxed. In other words, this isn't a new tax -- as Chasva69 correctly points out, it's just a way to track items that are already supposed to be taxed. I'm really not sure what the big deal is. Heck, I use 1099's in my business every day.

To answer Shibumi's question, no, almost no one does do this now for personal property. Which I guess is why they are trying to track it better. Whether we should be taxed on this is another argument. But it is not a new tax. Now, I can see an argument that the $600 level is too low. They probably need to raise that up a bit or maybe make a small business exception. But to agree with Chasva69 yet again, I don't see a compelling reason not to report these transactions altogether.

For some reason, the numismatic industry is especially up in arms over this. (Allegedly being egged on by conservative pundits like Beck and his sponser, Goldline International.)

Anyway, here's your link:

Gold Coin Dealers Decry New Tax Law - ABC News

Last edited by Off Topic; 08-07-2010 at 06:45 PM..
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Old 08-08-2010, 06:04 PM
 
355 posts, read 759,045 times
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Quote:
I just heard some disquieting news about possible new legislation that would require some record keeping for acquisition and sales of numismatic coins.
a separate 1099 would be required for each transaction rather than a form containing an aggregate

Quote:
What would happen at a coin show, for instance?
sales will migrate to smaller less tracked venues.
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Old 08-15-2010, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Moving through this etheria
430 posts, read 513,082 times
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Such as e-bay? There must also be dedicated coin websites. Individual sites centered on numismatics would seem to bypass this record keeping.
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Old 08-16-2010, 12:49 PM
 
8,648 posts, read 15,261,941 times
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Haven't ya'll learned nothing from the illegals yet....

"you don't need no stinking paper work"
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,035,618 times
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Logically, why should numismatic coins be any different from any other collectible? If you make a substantial part of your income by buying and reselling them, that is taxable income.
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Old 08-17-2010, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,035,618 times
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Here's the whole story on one page with justified margins, so you can read it without being jerked around through all the animated ads.

Kitco News

Way down at the bottom is the kicker. It's buried in a completely unrelated 2,300 page bill that not one single congressman has read. That's what Jefferson had in mind when he thought "transparency of government", I guess.
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