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Old 01-11-2011, 11:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e_cuyler View Post
I think a lot of it is the football culture---the great athletes in the region are more likely to wind up playing football. In other areas, there are more sports options, so kids are more likely to play something else.

I thought Oregon at least was able to keep it close up to the end, that's better than the other conferences have been able to do over these last few years.
While this isn't the entire answer, like you said, I agree there is something to it.

I base that on having coached high school ball for a lot of years in both Alabama and Oregon. The differences in the two places was striking.

Football and all things football was much more part of the overall culture and (some would argue) social fabric of Alabama than Oregon. I know in Oregon (at least where I've been) basketball was every bit as big, if not bigger than football, and in some locations track was bigger than football. Heck, track overall was a much more popular sport in Oregon than Alabama, as was wrestling.

IMO, high school football overall was also of a higher quality in Alabama than Oregon. But, the best in either state would still be competitive with each other, with an edge going to the Alabama schools. Shoot, a larger population alone would help account for that...although I think there are other factors.
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mr. GE View Post
I think the "superior" label may be misleading... The SEC is top heavy. meaning their best teams are always "superior" to the best of the other conferences. It doesnt' mean their 5th best team is "superior" to another conferences 5th best team...

But does that really matter? Who cares about the 5th best teams anyway?

This is why bowl games are not a good judge... the only game that is a good judge is the national title game. And based on that... The SEC is superior.
Indeed the "superior" label is misleading in that we are all concerned that an institution of education....is able to pay a group of mostly marginal to sub-par students from other states so that they can say their school is "better".

Really, if your colleges and universities strength is football....it's pretty pathetic actually considering the purpose of oh....colleges and universities.

Could we use this philosophy as a business slogan for Hyundai? "We make ****ty cars but we have one hell of a bunch of ringers on our company softball team."
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Indeed the "superior" label is misleading in that we are all concerned that an institution of education....is able to pay a group of mostly marginal to sub-par students from other states so that they can say their school is "better".

Really, if your colleges and universities strength is football....it's pretty pathetic actually considering the purpose of oh....colleges and universities.

Could we use this philosophy as a business slogan for Hyundai? "We make ****ty cars but we have one hell of a bunch of ringers on our company softball team."


I view it like a pro team, just with ties to the state government (state university).

As far as I can tell, the football team at LSU, Auburn, Florida, Alabama, et cetera, does not have any negative impacts on the ability of those institutions to educate.
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by le roi View Post
I view it like a pro team, just with ties to the state government (state university).

As far as I can tell, the football team at LSU, Auburn, Florida, Alabama, et cetera, does not have any negative impacts on the ability of those institutions to educate.
I agree with you. I don't think it has a negative impact.
I'm just saying that it's ironic to describe a conference of universities as "superior" based upon the actions of their sports teams when in terms of education (the core function) they are frankly sub-par vs. a lot of other conferences (the Big 10 in particular is wayyyyy out of the SEC's league academically.)

So again, it's like Hyundai saying they are better than Mercedes Benz because their corporate softball team (made up of ringers) is just awesome.

Best Colleges - Education - US News
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Old 01-11-2011, 01:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
I agree with you. I don't think it has a negative impact.
I'm just saying that it's ironic to describe a conference of universities as "superior" based upon the actions of their sports teams when in terms of education (the core function) they are frankly sub-par vs. a lot of other conferences (the Big 10 in particular is wayyyyy out of the SEC's league academically.)

So again, it's like Hyundai saying they are better than Mercedes Benz because their corporate softball team (made up of ringers) is just awesome.

Best Colleges - Education - US News
well, a "conference" is an athletic distinction, not an academic one.

The conferences themselves are members of the National Collegiate Athletic Association, and have no academic accreditation that would be conferred upon them by SACS, WASC, or any accreditation body. That is why I say, major profit-generating sports are really are a seperate entity that just uses the university name.

to me a better analogy is saying that a Benz (SEC) is faster and more luxurious than a Hyundai (Big Ten). The Hyundai guy is probably going to deny the relevance of speed and luxury, and instead going to brag about his gas mileage (academics).

Last edited by le roi; 01-11-2011 at 01:41 PM..
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Old 01-11-2011, 04:13 PM
 
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They have a tough conference with so mnay good teams. Unless they have alot of injuries the tough schedules give them a huge advantage in knowing how to win tough games.
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Old 01-11-2011, 04:45 PM
 
Location: OKIE-Ville
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Originally Posted by LiveLifeLovePacific View Post
The Pac 10 learned tonight that they can not match the talent of the SEC. The SEC has now one 5 BCS championships in a row. What makes the football teams in the SEC better then all other parts of the country? Is it the weather, the football culture, harder mentality, better athletes because it's the south?

The Pac 10 team got man handled by the SEC team in this BCS Champ game.
This is a great inquiry, LLLPacific.

I asked a similar question last year after the Tide won....but I was asking more of an overarching regional question of the South: Why is it that Southern states seem...at least for the last several years...to put together better overall football teams/programs?)

Everyone can revisit it here: http://www.city-data.com/forum/footb...-football.html

The thread seems to point to two main influences: 1) better weather which allows more practice/conditioning 2) more of a football culture...meaning football is top-dog when compared to other sports.

Also, the South is essentially bookended by arguably (along with California) the greatest recruiting pools with Texas in the West....and Florida in the East.
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:15 PM
 
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I think it may have alot to do with the SEC sticking together as a family and making football a top priority. In other words, it may have something to do with the SEC conference itself rather than individual schools - the higher ups. And then when you start stacking up cash together as a conference by winning back to back to back to back to back...lol... then it's makes it that much easier. As far as coaching goes, there are coaches that are from up north who now coach in the SEC and they simply find thierself in the best "conference", but they are great coaches. So, it seems to me that it may have alot to do with the fact that it's the "SEC" and who's running it.

Which brings me to another point. I've allways believed that running the football is the bread and butter of the game. A team that focuses on being the most physical and pounding the ball on the ground is going to win the game. Usually, the SEC teams allways get the best running backs, and if you find a good running back up north, he's probably from the South. Of course in order to have an effective running game you have to have a good passing game too but the team with the most physical running game and players in general will win the game. That's football. Most northern teams focus more on quarterbacks and passing the ball, the SEC gets a good quarterback and look out because your going to get beat up.

Then there's the overall general toughness. I cant explain why but the SEC is just a beast. For example, coach chip kelly of Oregon said to his players, "we recruited you because your fast". Eugene Oregon is known as a track town, so maybe that plays a role in it. But on the opposite note the SEC may recruit for toughness. What we just witnessed was the best of both worlds vs each other and Auburn won. Don't get me wrong, Auburn has some fast players but it doesn't solely recruit for speed. The way Oregon trains/practices is geared more for thier style of play, much like a sprinter may go really fast and then rest longer. Auburn/SEC may get on the practice field and beat each other up for hours, right after hitting the weights like a mad man.
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Old 01-12-2011, 09:12 AM
 
Location: The "Rock"
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Originally Posted by O-Ducky View Post
I think it may have alot to do with the SEC sticking together as a family and making football a top priority. In other words, it may have something to do with the SEC conference itself rather than individual schools - the higher ups. And then when you start stacking up cash together as a conference by winning back to back to back to back to back...lol... then it's makes it that much easier. As far as coaching goes, there are coaches that are from up north who now coach in the SEC and they simply find thierself in the best "conference", but they are great coaches. So, it seems to me that it may have alot to do with the fact that it's the "SEC" and who's running it.

Overall good post... but especially think you are headed in the right direction with the above part. There are a multitude of factors. But it starts with who is running things. And the SEC is more of a neighborhood type of league as far as culture.

They all take great pride in being a part of it and even though they try their best to beat each other. They want anyone from the "neighborhood" to win. The SEC is also more cognizant of the bigger picture... for example when Auburn & Alabama played. The majority of fans in the SEC wanted Auburn to win as they were the only team that had an oppty to play in the National Title game. (of course Bama fans wanted to win though). But this overall "protect the shield" type of attitude has always been prevalent in the SEC in the past 20 years. The league doesnt' fix anthing, so please dont think that. For example in 2001. The Vols would have gon to their 2nd BCS title game in 3 years had they just defeated LSU in the SEC Title game as most thought would happen. Instead they laid an egg and No SEC team played for the title. Which as we now know is bad for the league...

So whoever has the best chance to play for the title becomes the SEC's darling. I don't see this attitude in other conferences... Part of the reason the SEC is like a neighborhood is because the states that make up the SEC are not hugely populated except Florida. And the culture in all the states is very similar. The people can travel to any of the other states and feel at home. This helps the feel neighborhood feel. Also, most kids in all these states stay in the SEC. VERY few kids from those states leave. So even though a GA fan may not live in MS he knows kids from MS on his team and vice versa (he knows kids on MS team from GA).

Another factor is Football is king here. Just like it was said in The Blind Side movie: The boys grow up wanting to play and girls grow up wanting their boys to play.
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Old 01-12-2011, 09:32 AM
 
51,974 posts, read 41,825,420 times
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Originally Posted by le roi View Post
well, a "conference" is an athletic distinction, not an academic one.

The conferences themselves are members of the National Collegiate Athletic Association, and have no academic accreditation that would be conferred upon them by SACS, WASC, or any accreditation body. That is why I say, major profit-generating sports are really are a seperate entity that just uses the university name.

to me a better analogy is saying that a Benz (SEC) is faster and more luxurious than a Hyundai (Big Ten). The Hyundai guy is probably going to deny the relevance of speed and luxury, and instead going to brag about his gas mileage (academics).
To describe the academics of a university as less important than how good the football team is pretty much means we are in complete agreement just have different priorities. <shrug>

Regardless of our personal priorities, it is one of the things that does help the SEC to compete for recruits.

I have a hard time getting worked up about which college is currently doing the best job of skirting NCAA rules in order to field their latest batch of out of state ringers. There are parts of this country that I fully expect to be better at this than others.

LOL. IF the NCAA caught every violation that occurred there would probably not be enough teams left to fill all the bowls.
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