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Old 06-04-2011, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Chicago
6,341 posts, read 6,773,140 times
Reputation: 5703

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Quote:
Originally Posted by slim04 View Post
I don't think anyone thinks that NW is a bottom feeder, but no one considers them a real contender. The reason is that they always play one of the weakest OOC schedule in the nation. When they bother to play a BCS school, it is always some of the worst like Syracuse or Duke.

So when they start 4-0 and get the hype machine started up, but then end up 7-5, no wonder they get little respect. Plus, NW's yearly rivalry game is Illinois, hardly a powerhouse. Michigan has to face Ohio State every year. MSU has to face Penn St every year. Minn. has to face Wisconsin. While NW seems to miss playing a top contender or two every year.

Other schools play the weak OOC schedule game too, but at least when Ohio State or Wisconsin does it, they still finish 9-2 or 10-1.
slim, i see no problem with your assessment. yes, NU is one of those schools that rarely schedules any real competition in non-conference games.

Illinois is the rivalry game you speak of, but we're entering a new era (with divisions), so there will be givens every year from now on. And in division, Minnesota is the only break (Neb, Iowa, MSU, and Mich are not).

But let's keep in mind that Illinois is usually a middle of the pack team, so NU doesn't catch the type of break that IU, Minn, and often Purdue offer.

You're really not saying much differently than I have been saying. Yes, NU catches schedule breaks, misses some powerhouses, often overachieves through excellent coaching and smart players, and is in no way a big contender in the conference.

What it is, however, is a program that was once a laughing stock of 0-11 and 1-10 seasons with 48-0 blowouts and has become one that has moments of contension along with avoiding that bottom feeder role.

And that was my only point all along. Just the recognition that the really bad old days are gone and the recognition that NU is a full Big Ten football team by any measure, able to contend in conference.

At any rate, I appreciate that you know what I was trying to say and that you responded respectively. Then again, most people have done so on this thread.
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Old 06-04-2011, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Chicago
6,341 posts, read 6,773,140 times
Reputation: 5703
Quote:
Originally Posted by edsg25 View Post
It utterly amazes me how the learning curve among college football fans has not caught up with the reality of Northwestern football.

It makes little sense. In the last 15 years, Northwestern has won more Big Ten championships than the vast majority of Big Ten teams. The program has been highly competitive during most of those years.

The fascilities have been upgraded, PR and advertising aggresively pursued, commitment to program unquestioning and coaching on an exceedingly high plain. Like now, when NU grad Pat Fitzgerald is viewed as one of the top coaches in the nation and one who is not going anywhere else. He's a Northwestern man who is more than happy with his ten year contract, aiming to be for Northwestern what Jo Pa has been for Penn State.

In state, Northwestern has been the dominant program in football over Illinois for most of these last 15 or so years.

Yet so many people in "the public" see Northwestern as a bottom feeder in the conference, somehow akin to Minnesota or Indiana, two programs that don't match the Cats in football. Others still even question NU's Big Ten membership. Why? You can count on less than one hand the number of games this century that NU has been blown out by conference foes. Ask Iowa how competitive the Cats are. The strong Hawkeyes seem to fall to them with regularity.

It just doesn't make sense. Enough private universities.....well beyond the powers of ND, Miami and USC....have been doing very nicely for themselves in college football. Stanford has a lot of parallels with Northwestern. Wake has made a nice showing for itself. Even Vanderbilt has some stirring, although I still see it sometimes referred to in football as "the Northwestern of the South".

Maybe that one should be looked at as compliment.
le roi tells me
Quote:
thanks for the laugh i enjoy a good dose of hyperbole every now and then.

outside of the Big Ten, who has Northwestern beaten, in the past 5 years? Can you refresh my memory? Wikipedia says they have not won a bowl game since 1949, and I can't say I remember watching them play, ever. Given that they average 35k people per home game, I doubt very many people can.
I didnít respond to him on that point directly because, what was the point? from his first post, he let me know what a jerk i am. and the second one he tells me that Northwestern hasnít beaten anybody much in non-conference games and has not won a bowl game since 1949 and averages 35k per game.....in order to let me know how crazed i must be to think that.

Yet hereís the funny part: Iím in total agreement with le roi on those points. I would (1) never say otherwise on those issues and (2) never argue about him being correct here (he is).

and I may be, probably am, making a big deal out of nothing. Iíll plead guilty.

But my reason to do so isnít me. It is us. All of us. We live in nation that becomes more and more uncivil by the name. And so many discussion boards are absolutely toxic in their commentary. Iím grateful at this point to City-Data for holding us to civility. They should be commended.

Point is, I (1) never projected a super Northwestern in any thread as I merely wanted to get across: ďtheyíre no longer Big Ten bottom feeders; time has past.

but more importantly (2) I donít think that in my original post and in my responses to discussion did I say anything that was offensive or worthy of being blasted and told what an idiot I am.

Am I offended? No.

But to me it is extremely important to speak up (and hopefully others as well) when we see people go on the offensive and pummel posters who are doing no harm and only meaning to share.

It ruins discussion. And it debases us. Truthfully, there were times in my life I have done so myself and Iím not too happy about that.

Northwestern is such a secondary issue here when compared to how people of good will and respect and containing a sense of community and empathic feelings for others.

I know some think my sharing this is a waste of time. And I know that is BS to some. And thatís fine. But for me it is real.

This post doesnít seek any response from anyone about my reactons to this incident. The general is far more important than the specific.

Letís all treat each other the right way.....and agree to disagree without being disagreeable.
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Old 06-06-2011, 09:06 AM
 
22,769 posts, read 26,480,780 times
Reputation: 14566
Quote:
Originally Posted by edsg25 View Post
le roi tells me

I didn’t respond to him on that point directly because, what was the point? from his first post, he let me know what a jerk i am. and the second one he tells me that Northwestern hasn’t beaten anybody much in non-conference games and has not won a bowl game since 1949 and averages 35k per game.....in order to let me know how crazed i must be to think that.

Yet here’s the funny part: I’m in total agreement with le roi on those points. I would (1) never say otherwise on those issues and (2) never argue about him being correct here (he is).

and I may be, probably am, making a big deal out of nothing. I’ll plead guilty.

But my reason to do so isn’t me. It is us. All of us. We live in nation that becomes more and more uncivil by the name. And so many discussion boards are absolutely toxic in their commentary. I’m grateful at this point to City-Data for holding us to civility. They should be commended.

Point is, I (1) never projected a super Northwestern in any thread as I merely wanted to get across: “they’re no longer Big Ten bottom feeders; time has past.

but more importantly (2) I don’t think that in my original post and in my responses to discussion did I say anything that was offensive or worthy of being blasted and told what an idiot I am.

Am I offended? No.

But to me it is extremely important to speak up (and hopefully others as well) when we see people go on the offensive and pummel posters who are doing no harm and only meaning to share.

It ruins discussion. And it debases us. Truthfully, there were times in my life I have done so myself and I’m not too happy about that.

Northwestern is such a secondary issue here when compared to how people of good will and respect and containing a sense of community and empathic feelings for others.

I know some think my sharing this is a waste of time. And I know that is BS to some. And that’s fine. But for me it is real.

This post doesn’t seek any response from anyone about my reactons to this incident. The general is far more important than the specific.

Let’s all treat each other the right way.....and agree to disagree without being disagreeable.
You must be seeing things. I never used the words "jerk" or "idiot," nor did I call northwestern a "bottom feeder." I should probably report you for attacking me personally with things I didn't say, but I won't.

I said your posts were funny, and they are, and they keep getting more humorously melodramatic and indignant with every post. "It debases us." LOL. Just look at the very first line of your first post... "I am in utter amazement." If the limits of your ability to be surprised are tested by other peoples' perceptions of Northwestern football, you may want to see a medical professional, or maybe an English teacher.

If you want further commentary on your content, rather than style, I think your post was built on the flawed premise that Northwestern was universally perceived as a bottom feeder. You should have first started out with the question of whether or not Northwestern was perceived as a bottom feeder, before you wasted your time arguing so vehemently that people should perceive them to be better than they currently do.

Last edited by le roi; 06-06-2011 at 09:43 AM..
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Old 06-06-2011, 11:03 AM
 
16,594 posts, read 21,187,872 times
Reputation: 48176
Will either edit the last few posts or delete them a little later. Name calling is not permitted on this forum.
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Old 06-06-2011, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Fort Mill, SC
2,532 posts, read 2,970,985 times
Reputation: 1357
I didn't think this thread would last more than 5 posts or so, let alone 3 pages worth.
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Old 06-06-2011, 06:27 PM
 
3,912 posts, read 4,886,702 times
Reputation: 1825
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncopus99 View Post
I didn't think this thread would last more than 5 posts or so, let alone 3 pages worth.
It's the offseason.
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