U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > College Football
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-13-2011, 11:18 PM
 
10,720 posts, read 17,483,349 times
Reputation: 9921

Advertisements

Nearly all the respondents fail to understand what this is about: money! It has nothing to do with competition and improving one's chances on the field or acquiring better recruits. Missouri is moving to the SEC due to the television contracts. Texas AM is moving to the SEC for money.

The Big 12 is done. Those thinking it's going to remain the new Big 8 are dreaming. Teams like Oklahoma, Texas and Oklahoma St. can go to any of the other major conferences and make a lot more money and they will ultimately do so for those reasons. It's too much money to pass up to preserve "tradition." Don't be surprised if Oklahoma and Oklahoma St. go to the Pac 12. I have no idea what Texas will do. I can see them becoming independent like Notre Dame. If I'm Oklahoma, I'm going to the Pac 10 as soon as I can before Texas screws the conference again. Oklahoma St. will follow soon after that. OU and OSU play a Pac 10 style of football with their open offense, spread passing and running sweeps and screen plays as opposed to running inside and passing over the middle.

It makes sense. The new Pac 14 can be divided into East and West. Pac East includes OU, OSU, ASU, U of A, Colorado, Utah and USC. West includes UCLA, Cal, Stanford, Wash, Wash St. Oregon, Oregon St. If Texas joins, put USC in Pac West and Texas in Pac East.

Last edited by azriverfan.; 08-13-2011 at 11:33 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-13-2011, 11:29 PM
 
6,420 posts, read 10,894,168 times
Reputation: 6707
Quote:
Originally Posted by FantasyFootballGuy View Post
Nebraska will do great in the Big 10. I think they were smart to leave. They will overtake Ohio State as the best program in the Big 10. Also, Texas A&M will do just fine in the SEC. Joining the SEC will help improve recruiting for Texas A&M. Many guys coming out of High School will now choose A&M over Texas because they would rather play in the SEC which is the best conference instead of playing for lonely Texas all alone with nothing but their big ridiculous ego.
I think Nebraska can hold their own in the Big Ten, but given the recent success of Ohio State (rampant cheating aside), I don't see why Nebraska will overtake them as the best in the Big Ten. I give the Big Ten a hard time for a lot of reasons...but it's not going to be a cakewalk for Nebraska dealing with Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, and Iowa. It wouldn't surprise me if in a season or two they begin to establish themselves in the top tier of the Big Ten. I do think that the top 3-4 in that conference will take their turns leading it, though.

As for Texas A&M...a fresh start may be good for them, but doing "just fine" may be harder to come by than a lot of fans think. The top tier SEC teams usually enjoy several good seasons at the top of the conference, then dip and rebuild for a while...problem is that another team generally takes their place. It would be critical for A&M to fight their way to the top during those transition times. The immediate problem I see is that A&M will join an already crowded SEC West...3 of those teams have won National Championships in the past 5 seasons (Alabama, Auburn, LSU) and Arkansas is no slouch (BCS Bowl last season) and Mississippi State is looking to be as competitive as they've been in a while. Historically speaking, A&M is about the 4th best team in that division. It will be extremely difficult to rise to the top of that group.

On top of that, A&M will have to play at least 2 teams from the East (I'm guessing 3, as it would make sense to add another conference game with expansion)...so let's say 3...you'll have Florida, Georgia, and Tennessee (all historically stronger than A&M) twice every, say 6 seasons. A&M would be doing extremely well to lose only 3 conference games in a good year. I don't see them sniffing a division title any time in the near future. They have their work cut out for them.

I think A&M will find themselves in about the same spot they would leave the Big XII...about .500 in the conference schedule.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FantasyFootballGuy View Post
Let me also say that Nebraska is not a bunch of crybabies. Nebraska just simply did not want to put up with any crap or bs from Texas. I don't Nebraska. I would have done the same thing. Texas does not realize that it's hard to be powerful all by yourself. Just look at Notre Dame for example. Look at what their big ego and arrogance has gotten them. Notre Dame should join a conference. It would make sense for Notre Dame to join the Big 10. Also, I don't see the SEC ever getting weak. It seems like the SEC wins the National Championship ever year. The SEC is by far the best conference. Their is the SEC and then their is everyone else. The SEC fans and atmosphere is by far the best in college football. There is nothing else like it.
I don't blame Nebraska for doing what they did. The top end of the Big Ten isn't really any tougher than the top end of the Big XII....but it's a lot more stable of a conference. They can enjoy the good years and ride out the tough ones and never really have a worry about revenue and TV coverage. As good as the Big XII is, the Big Ten is higher profile.

Texas being an independent would be interesting. It's hard to say exactly what will happen. Lately, they've been considerably better than Notre Dame...but they've had the benefit of being part of a major conference. Texas, also, as big as they are, aren't a private school with the same type of national fanbase that a religious (Catholic) private university has. People can knock Notre Dame all they want, but Catholic kids all over the country dream of playing for Notre Dame and will cheer for them -- thick or thin -- until they die. To a much, much lesser extent, BYU has that same sort of (dare I say) cult following...both are private schools. That's one big parallel you can draw between them. The other two independents are service academies, and don't rely on sports the same way a lot of programs do.

I wonder what would happen if Texas was to fade from glory in the same way Notre Dame has...I think a lot of their current appeal would be lost. And I think a lot of their future success would depend on scheduling yearly rivalry games with the likes of Oklahoma and Texas A&M...and it will be interesting to see if both of those schools want to play Texas when they are no longer required to.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2011, 11:32 PM
 
6,420 posts, read 10,894,168 times
Reputation: 6707
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
Nearly all the respondents fail to understand what this is about: money! It has nothing to do with competition and improving one's chances on the field or acquiring better recruits. Missouri is moving to the SEC due to the television contracts. Texas AM is moving to the SEC for money.

The Big 12 is done. Those thinking it's going to remain the new Big 8 are dreaming. Teams like Oklahoma, Texas and Oklahoma St. can go to any of the other major conferences and make a lot more money and they will ultimately do so for those reasons. It's too much money to pass up to preserve "tradition." Don't be surprised if Oklahoma and Oklahoma St. go to the Pac 12. I have no idea what Texas will do. I can see them becoming independent like Notre Dame. If I'm Oklahoma, I'm going to the Pac 10 as soon as I can before Texas screws the conference again. Oklahoma St. will follow soon after that.
Missouri is going to the SEC? When was that announced?

One, I don't see how Missouri fits in the SEC, and two, I don't see how Missouri improves the SEC, competition, TV contract, or otherwise.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2011, 11:36 PM
 
10,720 posts, read 17,483,349 times
Reputation: 9921
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashvols View Post
Missouri is going to the SEC? When was that announced?

One, I don't see how Missouri fits in the SEC, and two, I don't see how Missouri improves the SEC, competition, TV contract, or otherwise.
It's not announced, it's rumor that was well publicized. It may not happen.

It's about money not culture. Missouri has two large TV markets in KC and St. Louis.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2011, 11:41 PM
 
10,720 posts, read 17,483,349 times
Reputation: 9921
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashvols View Post
I think Nebraska can hold their own in the Big Ten, but given the recent success of Ohio State (rampant cheating aside), I don't see why Nebraska will overtake them as the best in the Big Ten.
Nebraska is a weak program whose wins were inflated by playing in the Big 12 North. Nebraska always struggled against Big 12 South teams. Nebraska has not been the same since they stopped running the option after college teams figured out how to stop it. Since then Nebraska has been a mediocre program. Nebraska will get exposed in the Big 10 and they will have a difficult job recruiting as no one is going to want to move to Lincoln Nebraska.

Both Texas AM and Nebraska are in for rude awakenings as they join tougher conferences and become lousier.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2011, 11:45 PM
 
6,420 posts, read 10,894,168 times
Reputation: 6707
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
It's not announced, it's rumor that was well publicized. It may not happen.

It's about money not culture. Missouri has two large TV markets in KC and St. Louis.
I get what you're saying about money...but how big exactly are those markets in the terms of college sports, especially St. Louis?

With A&M, the SEC adds some Texas markets...but does Missouri really add any more viewership than, say, Florida State or Virginia Tech?

The only way I can see Mizzou entering the picture (and regretfully), is if the SEC expands to 16. I can see A&M "paying their way" with the addition of Texas markets (and the SEC restructuring its TV deals)...but will the Missouri markets be able to carry Mizzou's weight? Not just talking the size of the markets, but what kind of ratings they will bring to the SEC.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2011, 12:00 AM
JJG
 
Location: Fort Worth
13,249 posts, read 19,222,951 times
Reputation: 7010
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
Nearly all the respondents fail to understand what this is about: money!
The End.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2011, 12:03 AM
 
6,420 posts, read 10,894,168 times
Reputation: 6707
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
Nebraska is a weak program whose wins were inflated by playing in the Big 12 North. Nebraska always struggled against Big 12 South teams. Nebraska has not been the same since they stopped running the option after college teams figured out how to stop it. Since then Nebraska has been a mediocre program. Nebraska will get exposed in the Big 10 and they will have a difficult job recruiting as no one is going to want to move to Lincoln Nebraska.

Both Texas AM and Nebraska are in for rude awakenings as they join tougher conferences and become lousier.
Nebraska isn't a weak program...but definitely one that has been hurt since the effective death of the option in the NCAA. They built much of their identity on that offense...and now they are having to replace it. They are definitely experiencing growing pains...but the same can be said for Michigan in the Big Ten. With the new emphasis on speed and mobility, the old power football that Michigan was used to is obsolete. Now they are having to find their new system as well.

I think Nebraska comes into the Big Ten at the right time. Michigan is down, Ohio State is going to be down (for how long, who knows), Penn State is treading water, and Iowa is up and down. Rather than sinking to the middle or the bottom, I think they will be in striking distance of most of the elite in that conference. Yes, the Big XII North is weak, but let's not forget that the gap between Texas & Oklahoma and Nebraska was not all that huge in the past two seasons. Their 3 losses in the Big XII in 2010 were by 7 (Texas), 3 (TAMU), and 3 (Oklahoma) points, and in 2009 one big loss to TTU (21 pts) and 2 fluky points (Iowa State) and 1 point (Texas).

Nebraska still has a good ways to go, but overall, they're not in terrible shape. The transition should be interesting. It could be an advantage or disadvantage playing a different style of play in another conference.


I think TAMU's awakening will be ruder, as the SEC is arguably at its absolute height of dominance (5 straight NCs - 3 of them from teams in the division in which A&M would most likely compete in). Not only will A&M have a dogfight to try to keep in the top half of the conference, but in their own division as well. Getting out of the shadow of Texas will probably provide a quick bit of hope and euphoria for the Aggies...but it will be quickly crushed when they finish below .500 in conference play.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2011, 12:06 AM
 
10,720 posts, read 17,483,349 times
Reputation: 9921
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashvols View Post
I get what you're saying about money...but how big exactly are those markets in the terms of college sports, especially St. Louis?

With A&M, the SEC adds some Texas markets...but does Missouri really add any more viewership than, say, Florida State or Virginia Tech?

The only way I can see Mizzou entering the picture (and regretfully), is if the SEC expands to 16. I can see A&M "paying their way" with the addition of Texas markets (and the SEC restructuring its TV deals)...but will the Missouri markets be able to carry Mizzou's weight? Not just talking the size of the markets, but what kind of ratings they will bring to the SEC.
The better question is how does it hurt the SEC to add a school with two television in markets in KC and St. Louis? I think you know the answer to that. It's one thing to say the SEC desires Missouri, it's another thing to say Missouri is pursuing the SEC and the SEC won't be negatively impacted by adding two large television markets to their already large base. It only helps the SEC negotiate larger television contracts by expanding its base. If you are arguing if Florida St. or Virginia Tech makes more sense as an addition than Missouri, I agree with you but the way I see things, there is ultimately going to be 4 major power conferences so Missouri is ultimately going to be swallowed up by the Big 10 or the SEC.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2011, 12:29 AM
 
6,420 posts, read 10,894,168 times
Reputation: 6707
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
The better question is how does it hurt the SEC to add a school with two television in markets in KC and St. Louis? I think you know the answer to that. It's one thing to say the SEC desires Missouri, it's another thing to say Missouri is pursuing the SEC and the SEC won't be negatively impacted by adding two large television markets to their already large base. It only helps the SEC negotiate larger television contracts by expanding its base. If you are arguing if Florida St. or Virginia Tech makes more sense as an addition than Missouri, I agree with you but the way I see things, there is ultimately going to be 4 major power conferences so Missouri is ultimately going to be swallowed up by the Big 10 or the SEC.
I think you missed my point. Adding KC and St. Louis seems like a good idea...but only if those markets are going to be tuned into the games. Just adding the markets alone doesn't do it if the ratings aren't all that high. St. Louis seems more like a pro sports market, and KC has pro sports, but is also on the border of the Kansas markets, so it's not like that's a completely Mizzou-devoted market.

The TV deal gives you a fixed amount of income for the conference to split up....the SEC will add teams, but not if it takes away from the amount of revenue the teams are currently receiving. Adding TAMU will likely be enough for a restructured deal that more than covers A&Ms "share" of the conference split...I'm not totally convinced that Mizzou covers theirs.

At current, each SEC team makes about $17.4 million from the conference pool...will adding the KC and St. Louis markets make Mizzou worth $17+ million to the TV contract? Essentially, adding A&M and Mizzou alone would mean that the SEC would have to demand another $35 million/year in TV money to keep the same level of income coming into the schools.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > College Football
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top