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Old 09-20-2011, 05:40 PM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,143,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. GE View Post
They re-upped the SAME deal in '08... Only because NBC had no other options. And it's still 5yr/38M! yea impressive.

Again... The BCS gave ND a pass. BCS will not be a part of the playoff. Thus no pass. not hard to understand. Their money, prestige, and ancient history of success will not matter in the new league that is not part of
The NCAA.
I believe the Big Ten schools make more today from the TV contract than does ND from its.

ND has to start winning games or none of this will matter
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Old 09-20-2011, 05:55 PM
 
9,028 posts, read 16,424,156 times
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a note on the SEC compensation per school for their TV deals - granted this is going to be multi-sport, but football is the absolute driving force

Quote:
[LEFT]The SEC's new deals carry significant implications across college football. For all the discussion lately about the financial inequities of the BCS, schools are still far more reliant on regular-season TV revenue than bowl revenue. To that end, the SEC will now tower over most competitors, with each school earning roughly $17 million a year from the new deals.

Read more: ESPN TV deal will push SEC even further beyond Big Ten, others - Stewart Mandel - SI.com
[/LEFT]
I've read some reports that with the way the Big 10 divides up it's money and takes into account more than just TV revenue - each member school received $22M as a nice supplement last year
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Old 09-20-2011, 06:28 PM
 
Location: The "Rock"
2,551 posts, read 2,412,488 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
I believe the Big Ten schools make more today from the TV contract than does ND from its.

ND has to start winning games or none of this will matter


I was being sarcastic... My point is that the 5yr/38M is not squat.

read my previous posts...
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Old 09-20-2011, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Here or There
3,960 posts, read 2,511,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. GE View Post
They re-upped the SAME deal in '08... Only because NBC had no other options. And it's still 5yr/38M! yea impressive.
How is it the same deal? From the article which you quoted as well: "The current contract that expires in 2010 is reported to be worth $9 million a year".

We actually dont know what the deal is because the terms havent been disclosed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. GE View Post
Again... The BCS gave ND a pass.
Again, why? They shouldnt have. It is totally illogical and that is my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. GE View Post
BCS will not be a part of the playoff. Thus no pass. not hard to understand. Their money, prestige, and ancient history of success will not matter in the new league that is not part of The NCAA.
In a nutshell: You believe that if there is a new governing body for the Superconferences they will cut ND out if they dont join a conference (likely the Big Ten).

I believe that somehow, someway, they will give ND another pass--despite how illogical it may be.

For the record, I hope YOU are right.
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Old 09-20-2011, 09:39 PM
 
9,028 posts, read 16,424,156 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IXCell View Post
How is it the same deal? From the article which you quoted as well: "The current contract that expires in 2010 is reported to be worth $9 million a year".

We actually dont know what the deal is because the terms havent been disclosed.
Hard to track the timeline on this one ... but here's my best shot

That deal does (did) expire in 2010 .... however, in 2008 it was extened for 5 years from that expiration until 2015

The articles from '08 say undisclosed ... but this one from '09 indicated about $15M per year

Quote:
NBC is paying about $15 million a year in the current deal
TV Sports - NBC Still Likes Its Notre Dame Strategy - NYTimes.com
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Old 09-21-2011, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Chicago
5,853 posts, read 6,526,459 times
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As the original poster, I was as interested in ND becoming irrelevant if it didn't join a conference as the possibility it will join one.

We keep on looking at Notre Dame's actions when they are only one part of the story. the other part of the story is what effect outside forces have on Notre Dame if it chooses to remain independent. In other words, ND can very well stay independent....and become irrelevant.

Look,for those under the age of 25, there is no "glory" in notre Dame they can realte to; it was never a part of their lifetimes. That glory is stuck back in the 20th century where it was generated....4 horsemen, win one for the gipper and other legends. An era of excellence and national championships and frequent national upper echelon. It was an era were being an independent still worked and worked well. It was a time when European ethnic Catholics....those of Italian, Irish, Polish, and other backgrounds backed the school that very much represented them. Where are these folks today...totally assimiliated and intermarried and not part of that winning equation.

NBC, you say. Big deal. I have read that each of the Big Ten schools gets more revenue from the Big Ten Network than ND does from NBC. With super conferences, the only games likely for interconference competition will be in the beginning of the season. Which means that NBC be content with the middle and end season being filled with the likes of Notre Dame vs. Western Kentucky, Notre Dame vs. Emporia State, Notre Dame vs. Hardin Simmons.

You know, you have to know the times you live in. You have to realize the times when conference membership makes sense and when it does not. So if you look back to the 1930s, you would see a Notre Dame tring to join a conference to enhance its program. That would be the Big Ten. But in the 1930s the B10 wanted no part of the irish. Reason? Back them, anti-catholic sentiment was enough to keep the Irish out of the fold.

Notre Dame didn't choose independence; independence chose Notre Dame.

And that coast-to-coast non-conference schedule and status did its magic. Notre Dame ended thrieving on it. When the situation in the later part of the 20th century reversed, as the Big Ten came calling on Notre Dame a number of times, it was the Irish who said no.

And it worked. When the east coast schools gave up their independent status through the Big East and Penn State being in the Big Ten, Notre Dame's status really looked unique and worthy.

Then was then. As I said, you have to know your times. And these times, being "non-conference" is a total detriment.

Notre Dame will do what it wants to, but at this juncture of the game, ND can continue to stick to its (independent) guns and lose total meaning in the world of big time college football.
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Old 09-23-2011, 12:23 AM
 
1,623 posts, read 4,333,158 times
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ND isn't going to join the Big 10 because, although it is in the Midwest, it's demographics and alumni increasingly skew towards the Northeast. Plus, Notre Dame just has too much rivalry games: Navy, Michigan, Michigan St., Purdue, USC, Stanford, Boston College, Georgia Tech (some years), Pittsburgh (some years), etc. Joining a conference means maybe only three non-conference games. Schools like to schedule a couple of cupcakes that don't require a return road game so they can have a couple more lucrative home games a year. If ND plays its non Big 10 rivals, they will demand a home and away series so ND will lose money compared to say Ohio St. scheduling Youngstown St.

Plus, the football schools in the east don't draw well, so ND leverages their drawing power to extract neutral site away games where their supporters are half the stadium (i.e. Maryland in FedEx, UConn in Gillette, Army in Yankee Stadium, Navy in M&T Field in Baltimore, Northwestern in Soldier Field). So they end up only playing true road games against half their schedule every other year. ND makes most of their money from alumni donations, not TV or bowl money, so if they can get a ton of alums to attend at least 1 game every other year in the most populous and wealthy cities they maintain a very high donation rate.

So why give that up? To make an extra $5M in TV money while alienating hundreds of thousands of alums that live in Boston, NYC, DC, Philly, Pittsburgh, etc.

The only reason why ND would join a conference would be if it was left out of the bowls and access to a championship game. And if it did, it would join the conference that gave them the most flexibility and everyone knows that isn't the Big 10.
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Old 09-23-2011, 02:16 AM
 
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That actually is one of the few "No ND and B1G merger" arguements that kinda make sense.

Mind you there are a lot of catholics in the Midwest as well you know.

That being said, I don't care how much anyone hates "socialist revenue sharing" you have to keep at least a reasonably level playing field. ND has to play by those rules.
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Old 09-23-2011, 03:43 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,853 posts, read 6,526,459 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slim04 View Post
ND isn't going to join the Big 10 because, although it is in the Midwest, it's demographics and alumni increasingly skew towards the Northeast.
i have to completely disagree with this. Notre Dame is far more attached to its middle west roots than is connected to the east coast on any level.

and if notre dame is to join any conference and there were to be no strings attached (such as the strings that came with its Big East membership), there is only one conference that it would really want to join: the Big Ten. Indeed, it is the Big Ten which Notre Dame seriously negotiated for membership a number of times during the last half century, the most recent in the 1990's.

And that one could have gone in favor of membership. there was a strong desire to join the conference within the adminstration and faculty which would also have brought ND into the CIC, the conference's academic arm.

On no level is ND more attached to the East than it is to the Midwest. There are no rivalries in the east that match ND's rivalry with Michigan, which is only surpassed in Irish lore with the USC rivalry. Both MSU and in-state Purdue are major, major Notre Dame rivals. And the list of Big Ten teams that have a long history of playing the Irish is tremendous. Northwestern has played them a huge number of times. Ohio State has had some great matches. And Illinois, Wisconsin, and Iowa have all played ND a number of times.

Despite playing a game in the new Yankee Stadium, Notre Dame is far more attached to Chicago than to New York. Chicago is virtually its home town and Chicago treats Notre Dame as a home team, right up there with Illinois and Northwestern. The ND/Chicago connection is huge, including a huge number of alumni.

You can't sit right out there on the edge of South Bend, Indiana, and be an east coast school. And Notre Dame isn't. It is pure midwestern.

And frankly, why would it want to be somewhere else. The midwest is a hot bed for quality higher education, a region that can proudly hold its own in collegiate academics with powerhouse schools like Chicago, Northwestern, Michigan, Notre Dame, Wisconsin, Illinois, WashU, etc.

I'm smack dab in the middle of Chicagoland and I can tell you, from experience, that ND and Chicago are joined at the hip. There is no comparison between the ties between Chicago and Notre Dame and Notre Dame's connection with any other city...even New York.

Quote:
The only reason why ND would join a conference would be if it was left out of the bowls and access to a championship game. And if it did, it would join the conference that gave them the most flexibility and everyone knows that isn't the Big 10.
Your list above is fine and makes sense. But I don't think ND falls into the "only reason" category when it comes to conference membership. You have to believe that ND is having internal discussions all the time about whether or not to do this and when it becomes necessary to pull the plug on independence. Notre Dame understands the changing landscape of college football. Notre Dame knows that not all decisons are caused internally. External forces can affect what the university does.

Quote:
Notre Dame just has too much rivalry games: Navy, Michigan, Michigan St., Purdue, USC, Stanford, Boston College, Georgia Tech (some years), Pittsburgh (some years), etc.
So speaking of outside sources, when in the new scheduling that is bound to take place in these conference shifts and increase in size is Notre Dame expected to be able to schedule the teams listed above.

The trio of regularly scheduled Big Ten schools....U-M, MSU, and Purdue...all take place before the start of the season when non-conference games are disposed of. The mid- and late-season are a time for conference games. Increasingly so when conference size expands.

USC was able to squeeze a mid-season game in South Bend every other year, but the LA games have always been played at season's end. Now that week is reserved for the Pac 12's new championship game.

BC's scheduling opportunity is more questionable in the ACC than it was in the Big East. With Pitt switching the same way BC did, it is also going to be more difficult to schedule.

Conferences have even number of times, when possible. And the expectation is after the first 3 or 4 weeks of the season, those dates are open for intraconference play. that alone is enough to kill off scheduling opportunities for Notre Dame and force it out of independence.....or to have it keep its independence and lose relevancy.

And that is one of the biggest points I've tried to raise here: Let's stop looking at the Notre Dame story as being internal. It is not. The world of college is not locked into what ND chooses to do. It is equally (or even more greatly) affected by what the system chooses to do to Notre Dame; or, at least the conditions the system puts out there that make ND football as we know it, either possible or impossible.

If a championship gets based on conference membership (a distinct possibility if there are to be 4 "super conferences" and if conference scheduling gets locked in through the mid and late portions of the season, than Notre Dame's choice becomes rather meaningless in the bigger scheme of things. It will all come down to whether the Irish choose to recognize the new landscape and new realities of college football and join a conference....or take their marbles and go home with their vaunted independence in tact, ready for a week-after-week schedule of Ball State, Southern Miss, Temple, UNLV, San Jose State, and East Carolina. That ought to rewake the old echoes.

Last edited by edsg25; 09-23-2011 at 04:03 AM..
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