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How would you guys rate Steve Spurrier as a QB developer in comparison to other Top Coordinators like Charlie Weiss, David Cutcliffe, and Josh Heupel?
I would rank Spurrier pretty low.
The reason I say that is because he has not produced a winner since Wuerffel and has not produced any great NFL QB's. Although almost ALL of his quarterbacks make it to the NFL, Rex Grossman is the most successful. That is not a QB Guru in my eyes... He doesnt seem to do anything but get mad at his QB's for their mistakes. They never seem to flourish and learn in his system. I don't think he develops them. I think he just caught lightning in a bottle with Mathews, Wuerffel, and Grossman. I think his days of getting highly recruited QB's are over. I can't see top qb's wanting to play for him because his track record is getting worse. Or is it a product of being at the University of South Carolina? Although I think we began to see signs of this downslide when he had Grossman at Florida. But what do all think?
Would you want your son to go play for the Ball Coach as a QB?
he's had a lot of QB's play poorly, and then transfer. Smelley, Beecher, and McCollum all left Columbia. i'm not sure if the problem is is the quality of the QB's he is recruiting, or the quality of the pass protection, or if he just struggles to develop QB's in general.
USC dismissed Garcia... I think Spurrier and USC should be ashamed of themselves. As long as he won he was giving freedom to mess up. Soon as he started losing they dumped him. They were enablers in this. Garcia is obviously a screw up too but still...
USC dismissed Garcia... I think Spurrier and USC should be ashamed of themselves. As long as he won he was giving freedom to mess up. Soon as he started losing they dumped him.
that sounds like pure speculation to me. In previous years, Garcia never did anything severe enough to be kicked off the team, he just habitually made bad choices and broke small rules. Then they gave him an ultimatum, no more alcohol or you're off the team... and he broke that rule. seems clearcut.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. GE
How would you guys rate Steve Spurrier as a QB developer in comparison to other Top Coordinators like Charlie Weiss, David Cutcliffe, and Josh Heupel?
I would rank Spurrier pretty low.
The reason I say that is because he has not produced a winner since Wuerffel and has not produced any great NFL QB's. Although almost ALL of his quarterbacks make it to the NFL, Rex Grossman is the most successful. That is not a QB Guru in my eyes... He doesnt seem to do anything but get mad at his QB's for their mistakes. They never seem to flourish and learn in his system. I don't think he develops them. I think he just caught lightning in a bottle with Mathews, Wuerffel, and Grossman. I think his days of getting highly recruited QB's are over. I can't see top qb's wanting to play for him because his track record is getting worse. Or is it a product of being at the University of South Carolina? Although I think we began to see signs of this downslide when he had Grossman at Florida. But what do all think?
Would you want your son to go play for the Ball Coach as a QB?
Spurrier's system is very different from other systems. Basically, he needs quarterbacks who can put a ball at a certain spot at a certain time and receivers who can be at the same spot at the same time. It's different from more traditional quarterbacking in that the QB and receivers know that the ball is going to be (i) at the left hash 15 yards from the LOS at 2.5 seconds, (ii) at the middle of the field 25 yards from the LOS at 4 seconds, (iii) five yards from the home sideline 40 yards from the LOS at 6 seconds or the RB had better be ready to catch the dump. The QB's progression is more like "5 steps, A route *covered*, 1 mississippi, B route *covered*, 2 mississippi, C route *Open - THROW*. The system is extremely effective if the offensive line excels, he has a quarterback with an accurate, powerful arm and the right kind of athlete at the receiving positions, but it's inflexible in many ways and doesn't lend itself well to the dynamics of the pro game. A Heisman trophy winner in Spurrier's offense probably knows very little about a pro-style offense even though he may have been, for example, Danny Wuerffel.
In other words, I think Spurrier does a great job of developing QBs - but only to his offense.
The QB's progression is more like "5 steps, A route *covered*, 1 mississippi, B route *covered*, 2 mississippi, C route *Open - THROW*. The system is extremely effective if the offensive line excels, he has a quarterback with an accurate, powerful arm and the right kind of athlete at the receiving positions
I completey disagree with your overall assessment...
and the sentences above describes what a pro style offense is like to a T... so i'm not sure how you can say spurrier's offense is more complex and difficult. that's a joke...
And Wuerffel & Mathews did not have strong arms. That was part of their problems translating to the NFL. rexman on the other hand does have a strong arm. probably why he has been the only successful spurrier qb in the nfl.
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8,309 posts, read 38,766,834 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. GE
I completey disagree with your overall assessment...
and the sentences above describes what a pro style offense is like to a T... so i'm not sure how you can say spurrier's offense is more complex and difficult. that's a joke...
And Wuerffel & Mathews did not have strong arms. That was part of their problems translating to the NFL. rexman on the other hand does have a strong arm. probably why he has been the only successful spurrier qb in the nfl.
You misunderstand what I'm saying. Spurrier's offense is very simplistic and inflexible compared to, for example, a Charlie Weiss offense with numerous checks and contingencies in every formation, for every called-play, and very reactive to defensive looks. Spurrier takes the "math" out of the QB's head and puts the onus on the QB's arm and the receivers' legs.
Wuerffel probably had about a 92nd percentile arm. So does Brees, so I don't think it's feasible that this is the problem.
Grossman is not a successful NFL QB. Sure, he beat out someone that looks a lot like Donovan McNabb, but his arm strength isn't key to anything and he is still making rookie mistakes. Jamarcus Russell probably had the biggest arm I've ever seen and now he's bangin' screw and sippin' drank.
Anyway, if it's arm strength aren't you defeating the premise that Spurrier doesn't develop QB's?
Wuerffel probably had about a 92nd percentile arm. So does Brees, so I don't think it's feasible that this is the problem.
Grossman is not a successful NFL QB. Sure, he beat out someone that looks a lot like Donovan McNabb, but his arm strength isn't key to anything and he is still making rookie mistakes. Jamarcus Russell probably had the biggest arm I've ever seen and now he's bangin' screw and sippin' drank.
Anyway, if it's arm strength aren't you defeating the premise that Spurrier doesn't develop QB's?
I have no ideas what 92nd percentile arm means... Anyone with eyes could see that Wuerffel did NOT have a strong arm... Here is an article where he admitted such.
And... I'm not saying Grossman is "successful" in a general sense of the word. I'm saying he is the only one Spurrier has produced who reached his tenure in the NFL... So he is the only one Spurrier produced who has had any type of success in the NFL.
And.. I didnt bring arm strength up. You did. Saying that Spurrier has guys with Powerful arms... I just said that you are wrong, not that it makes for a great QB. I think Joe Montana is the greatest QB ever and his arm strength was not good at all.
None of the guys Spurrier has produced had a strong arm except Grossman. So, it is probably safe to say that is why he has been able to stay in the NFL while the others could not. Because we all know Grossman is not accurate or a winner.
So back to my original point... Spurrier has not shown me that he deserves to be labeled as a coach who develops great QB's.
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8,309 posts, read 38,766,834 times
Reputation: 7185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. GE
I have no ideas what 92nd percentile arm means... Anyone with eyes could see that Wuerffel did NOT have a strong arm... Here is an article where he admitted such.
And... I'm not saying Grossman is "successful" in a general sense of the word. I'm saying he is the only one Spurrier has produced who reached his tenure in the NFL... So he is the only one Spurrier produced who has had any type of success in the NFL.
You said: "rexman on the other hand does have a strong arm. probably why he has been the only successful spurrier qb in the nfl." I read that to be pretty general.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. GE
And.. I didnt bring arm strength up. You did. Saying that Spurrier has guys with Powerful arms... I just said that you are wrong, not that it makes for a great QB. I think Joe Montana is the greatest QB ever and his arm strength was not good at all.
I said: "The system is extremely effective if the offensive line excels, he has a quarterback with an accurate, powerful arm and the right kind of athlete at the receiving positions, but it's inflexible in many ways and doesn't lend itself well to the dynamics of the pro game." which is definitely not the same as saying "Spurrier has guys with Powerful arms." Joe Montana is another example of a great quarterback with a relatively underpowered arm, which is exactly why I brought up Brees in my last post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. GE
None of the guys Spurrier has produced had a strong arm except Grossman. So, it is probably safe to say that is why he has been able to stay in the NFL while the others could not. Because we all know Grossman is not accurate or a winner.
So back to my original point... Spurrier has not shown me that he deserves to be labeled as a coach who develops great QB's.
I have to disagree. A strong arm for a quarterback is about like top-end speed for a receiver, which is to say that, while desireable, a strong arm and $0.50 gets you a cup of coffee. Grossman has hung around in the NFL for a number of reasons, but a strong arm probably does not play prominently into that equation.
I'm still not disagreeing with your conclusion, by the way. I'm saying that Spurrier develops QB's for his offense (and does that pretty well, for the most part).
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Anyone with eyes could see that Wuerffel did NOT have a strong arm... Here is an article where he admitted such.
