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Old 11-11-2011, 08:02 AM
 
52,575 posts, read 42,260,527 times
Reputation: 32806

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyAZ View Post
.... I've heard about 4 very large donors to PSU that are completely halting future donations pending the outcome of this.
Is that because their supply of boys has been cut off or because the blue chip recruits backed out?

 
Old 11-11-2011, 08:06 AM
 
Location: NJ
17,579 posts, read 40,063,194 times
Reputation: 16148
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyAZ View Post
It's unfortunate that there are sick individuals out there, I'd certainly be a proponent of locking them all up for good, BUT I'm not a proponent of destroying reputation of those who didn't commit the crime.
This is where you seem to differ from most posting here. You think somehow other people are destoying reputations. That is simply not true. These people have destroyed their own reputations. Paterno had 100% control over this. He could have made decisions that would have actually increased his reputation. But he chose not to.

Imagine this bio: One of the greatest college football coaches of all time and a key figure in getting a child rapist locked up and saving countless kids.

Much better than: A key figure in helping a child rapist continue his activities for many years when he was in a position to put a stop to it but chose friendships and reputation instead. Oh yeah, he was also a college football coach.
 
Old 11-11-2011, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Whidbey Island, WA
12,371 posts, read 11,434,923 times
Reputation: 6181
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD View Post
Unless you have some self serving interests I don't see how any rational person can defend Paterno's non action in this matter.
There are no viable excuses.
Word.
 
Old 11-11-2011, 08:15 AM
 
10,921 posts, read 13,811,120 times
Reputation: 6421
Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
This is where you seem to differ from most posting here. You think somehow other people are destoying reputations. That is simply not true. These people have destroyed their own reputations. Paterno had 100% control over this. He could have made decisions that would have actually increased his reputation. But he chose not to.

Imagine this bio: One of the greatest college football coaches of all time and a key figure in getting a child rapist locked up and saving countless kids.

Much better than: A key figure in helping a child rapist continue his activities for many years when he was in a position to put a stop to it but chose friendships and reputation instead. Oh yeah, he was also a college football coach.
The whole thing, once you get past the sickness and perversion of Sandusky, is incredibly sad and infuriating. The kid who Mcqueary walked in on with Sandusky..where is he? What happened to him after this, when someone had an opportunity to protect him? No one found out who he was? You think maybe he thought he was about to be rescued and the guy runs away? Then for all we know this stuff continues!!

This is like a horror movie, more disturbing than Hostel or Saw or any of that torture fetish stuff, because it's real. And Mr. Paterno didn't do jack except trying to cover his own ass by forcing the guy to retire.
 
Old 11-11-2011, 08:27 AM
 
30,499 posts, read 47,776,747 times
Reputation: 16364
Thanks for posting that link to the code regarding people who are obligated to report child abuse...
most of the language of that law which tries to make it impossible for people in education or child care or doctors like pediatricians or ER people who see children on daily basis who might be victims of child abuse to NOT report to the police their suspicions really offers little to the PSU situation--
IMO--
and that is why I think every state's laws need to be revised to make it crystal clear that if you belive a child is being abused in a sexual manner--especially if you are a WITNESS to such abuse--you MUST notify the police...whatever the location/situation of the incident...

Licensees who are staff members of a medical or other public or private institution, school, facility or agency, and who, in the course of their employment, occupation or practice of their profession, come into contact with children shall immediately notify the person in charge of the institution, school facility or agency or the designated agent of the person in charge when they have reasonable cause to suspect on the basis of their professional or other training or experience, that a child coming before them in their professional or official capacity is a victim of child abuse. Upon notification by the licensee, the person in charge or the designated agent shall assume the responsibility and have the legal obligation to report or cause a report to be made in accordance with subsections (a), (c) and (d).


what these guys (Paterno and the 3 others) are going to claim as big part of their defense is that
1--they were not a first-hand witness to the alleged crime;
they NEVER came in contact with the children in question
(they never apparently looked for them either)...
2--the two people at PSU from what I understand who actually SAW Sandusky in the act of abuse at separate times were a graduate assistant who deals with college students (not children) and a temporary employee/custodian (and who apparently is suffering from some form of dimentia at the moment) who was working in university setting--not in elementary school or day care

Technically their employment does not put them into the catagories of people who are required to report--McQuary did not deal with "children" as part of his grad student work nor was the custodian working at a day care or public school...

What these witnesses (and the people they told their stories to) fail to understand is that they saw a FELONY in process--
they were not required to go to their bosses--they were required morally to call the police--
I think there is probably in every city's code some weak version of a law that says failure to report a crime means that you have committed a wrong--
but how often people are prosecuted for that failure is probably numbered on one hand--

maybe you could say they participated in a coverup of the crime by remaining silent----which I think most people believe certainly happened with the admin at PSU...they deliberately failed to followup with that report of child rape...and they KNEW Sandusky had prior history of inappropriate behavior with young boys...

You also have to consider that the original prosecutor who has gone missing could also have been involved in that same long-term coverup since the police WERE notified about Sandusky in 98 and made investigation and had Sandusky ADMIT that he was taking showers with boys and was not going to stop...that DA apparently decided charging Sandusky was not warranted--how he reached that decision has never been determined--his records are all conveniently missing...along with the individual

unfortunately the two at PSU were either too intimidated, upset, shamed, ignorant (pick the adj that works best for your interpretation) to actually call the police and screw notifying their superiors--the custodian told his fellow workers and some type of supervisor but not really the admin staff person he was supposed to seek out--
none of the people he told apparently notified any authority in or out of the college either...

would they notify their superiors if they saw people breaking into the Register's office on campus or breaking into a car in the parking lot at the stadium on game day, or stealing sides of beef from a campus cafeteria kitchen????
I don't think so--
They would have called the police...period

So I fail to understand why a sex crime against a minor falls into a gray area--
see someone steal a computer--call the police
see someone steal a piece of a child's soul--call your boss???
How does that equate?
 
Old 11-11-2011, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Sunny Florida
7,136 posts, read 11,087,498 times
Reputation: 9467
Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
This is where you seem to differ from most posting here. You think somehow other people are destoying reputations. That is simply not true. These people have destroyed their own reputations. Paterno had 100% control over this. He could have made decisions that would have actually increased his reputation. But he chose not to.

Imagine this bio: One of the greatest college football coaches of all time and a key figure in getting a child rapist locked up and saving countless kids.

Much better than: A key figure in helping a child rapist continue his activities for many years when he was in a position to put a stop to it but chose friendships and reputation instead. Oh yeah, he was also a college football coach.
I agree with you, they destroyed their own reputations and revealed their true characters. Paterno may have been a great football coach, but he proved himself to be a miserable human being. Anyone who would allow children to be abused, for whatever reason, is not a good person. It's not dependent on age either, I'm sick of hearing that. He is old enough to know right from wrong. Would he have allowed this to happen to his children or grandchildren? I think not. He had multiple opportunities to stop the abuse of innocent children and he chose not to - that's his legacy as far as I'm concerned.
 
Old 11-11-2011, 08:38 AM
 
30,499 posts, read 47,776,747 times
Reputation: 16364
The fact is that any college/university is MORE than its sports program---
the sad fact is that most don't want to be anything more...
and most people refuse to go to or to support a college/university that lacks that bragging right...

Rice University in TX is about the only college I know that has taken pride in having an inept football team and being a university of nerds...but everyone knows geeks are different

In its annual ranking of America’s best colleges, U.S. News and World Report lists alumni giving as one of seven critical indicators of academic quality. Rice is ranked No. 17 for 2009.
From a separate source:
in 2009 Rice University raised its overall alumni participation rate from 34 percent to 35 percent despite an economic environment in which many institutions experienced a decline in alumni participation.

And for a small group of students to behave like they did the other night--in some wacked out show of support for Paterno and a recall for him as coach--you have to ask yourself is PSU really doing that good a job with explaining/teaching young people that abusive behavior of ANY kind is really not appropriate....
I know that there are probably more students who think Paterno was wrong but are afraid to speak out because of the hero-worship-culture on that campus...
THAT is another problem that school needs to start addressing...
 
Old 11-11-2011, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh--Home of the 6 time Super Bowl Champions!
11,309 posts, read 11,227,039 times
Reputation: 4916
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7express View Post
Someone that covers up child abuse does not deserve to leave on their own terms.
AMEN!
Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
Thanks for posting that link to the code regarding people who are obligated to report child abuse...
most of the language of that law which tries to make it impossible for people in education or child care or doctors like pediatricians or ER people who see children on daily basis who might be victims of child abuse to NOT report to the police their suspicions really offers little to the PSU situation--
IMO--
and that is why I think every state's laws need to be revised to make it crystal clear that if you belive a child is being abused in a sexual manner--especially if you are a WITNESS to such abuse--you MUST notify the police...whatever the location/situation of the incident...

Licensees who are staff members of a medical or other public or private institution, school, facility or agency, and who, in the course of their employment, occupation or practice of their profession, come into contact with children shall immediately notify the person in charge of the institution, school facility or agency or the designated agent of the person in charge when they have reasonable cause to suspect on the basis of their professional or other training or experience, that a child coming before them in their professional or official capacity is a victim of child abuse. Upon notification by the licensee, the person in charge or the designated agent shall assume the responsibility and have the legal obligation to report or cause a report to be made in accordance with subsections (a), (c) and (d).


what these guys (Paterno and the 3 others) are going to claim as big part of their defense is that
1--they were not a first-hand witness to the alleged crime;
they NEVER came in contact with the children in question
(they never apparently looked for them either)...
2--the two people at PSU from what I understand who actually SAW Sandusky in the act of abuse at separate times were a graduate assistant who deals with college students (not children) and a temporary employee/custodian (and who apparently is suffering from some form of dimentia at the moment) who was working in university setting--not in elementary school or day care

Technically their employment does not put them into the catagories of people who are required to report--McQuary did not deal with "children" as part of his grad student work nor was the custodian working at a day care or public school...

What these witnesses (and the people they told their stories to) fail to understand is that they saw a FELONY in process--
they were not required to go to their bosses--they were required morally to call the police--
I think there is probably in every city's code some weak version of a law that says failure to report a crime means that you have committed a wrong--
but how often people are prosecuted for that failure is probably numbered on one hand--

maybe you could say they participated in a coverup of the crime by remaining silent----which I think most people believe certainly happened with the admin at PSU...they deliberately failed to followup with that report of child rape...and they KNEW Sandusky had prior history of inappropriate behavior with young boys...

You also have to consider that the original prosecutor who has gone missing could also have been involved in that same long-term coverup since the police WERE notified about Sandusky in 98 and made investigation and had Sandusky ADMIT that he was taking showers with boys and was not going to stop...that DA apparently decided charging Sandusky was not warranted--how he reached that decision has never been determined--his records are all conveniently missing...along with the individual

unfortunately the two at PSU were either too intimidated, upset, shamed, ignorant (pick the adj that works best for your interpretation) to actually call the police and screw notifying their superiors--the custodian told his fellow workers and some type of supervisor but not really the admin staff person he was supposed to seek out--
none of the people he told apparently notified any authority in or out of the college either...

would they notify their superiors if they saw people breaking into the Register's office on campus or breaking into a car in the parking lot at the stadium on game day, or stealing sides of beef from a campus cafeteria kitchen????
I don't think so--
They would have called the police...period

So I fail to understand why a sex crime against a minor falls into a gray area--
see someone steal a computer--call the police
see someone steal a piece of a child's soul--call your boss???
How does that equate?
Yes, the written law needs to clearly state "anyone with any knowledge of child abuse, must report it to the police" or something like that. The way it is written...a good lawyer will get around that!
 
Old 11-11-2011, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh--Home of the 6 time Super Bowl Champions!
11,309 posts, read 11,227,039 times
Reputation: 4916
That DA who went missing years back...makes me wonder if Sandusky was involved in his disappearance.
 
Old 11-11-2011, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
4,486 posts, read 15,351,072 times
Reputation: 3957
Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
This is where you seem to differ from most posting here. You think somehow other people are destoying reputations. That is simply not true. These people have destroyed their own reputations. Paterno had 100% control over this. He could have made decisions that would have actually increased his reputation. But he chose not to.

Imagine this bio: One of the greatest college football coaches of all time and a key figure in getting a child rapist locked up and saving countless kids.

Much better than: A key figure in helping a child rapist continue his activities for many years when he was in a position to put a stop to it but chose friendships and reputation instead. Oh yeah, he was also a college football coach.
I see it more along the lines as Paterno admitted he should've done more to stop what was happening, how much did he REALLY know? NONE of us know that.

I just have a difficult time condemning someone like Paterno who has done so much for Penn State and for college football in general. It isn't like he doesn't care about the kids, if you know anything about Joe Paterno you should know how much he cared for every single one of his players both on and off the field. If you've read interviews with any of Paterno's players, they'll be the first to tell you how awesome an individual he is and how much they respect him. He IS an all-around great human being who made an error, I just can't condemn him for being human.

Sandusky can burn in hell for all I care, he's obviously sick and he should fry.
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