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Old 11-11-2011, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh--Home of the 6 time Super Bowl Champions!
11,309 posts, read 11,182,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyAZ View Post
I see it more along the lines as Paterno admitted he should've done more to stop what was happening, how much did he REALLY know? NONE of us know that.

I just have a difficult time condemning someone like Paterno who has done so much for Penn State and for college football in general. It isn't like he doesn't care about the kids, if you know anything about Joe Paterno you should know how much he cared for every single one of his players both on and off the field. If you've read interviews with any of Paterno's players, they'll be the first to tell you how awesome an individual he is and how much they respect him. He IS an all-around great human being who made an error, I just can't condemn him for being human.

Sandusky can burn in hell for all I care, he's obviously sick and he should fry.
Speedy...not trying to attack you...just a question for you.

If one of you kids were a victim of Sandusky's and you found out that Joe had prior knowledge of Sandusky's sick behavior and could have prevented your child from being raped by coming forward to begin with.....how would you feel about JoePa then?

 
Old 11-11-2011, 08:59 AM
 
Location: NJ
17,579 posts, read 39,782,292 times
Reputation: 16147
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyAZ View Post
I see it more along the lines as Paterno admitted he should've done more to stop what was happening, how much did he REALLY know? NONE of us know that.

I just have a difficult time condemning someone like Paterno who has done so much for Penn State and for college football in general. It isn't like he doesn't care about the kids, if you know anything about Joe Paterno you should know how much he cared for every single one of his players both on and off the field. If you've read interviews with any of Paterno's players, they'll be the first to tell you how awesome an individual he is and how much they respect him. He IS an all-around great human being who made an error, I just can't condemn him for being human.

Sandusky can burn in hell for all I care, he's obviously sick and he should fry.
Let me ask you a hypothetical question. At what point would you draw the line between everything Paterno has done for football, how much he cared for his players, etc. vs. something bad? What if it turns out he actively petitioned for this not to go public? Do you still feel the same? What if it turns out he had innapropriate contact with a child (and it was proven it was only one time and never happened again)?

In your mind when do past good deeds stop outweighing the bad?
 
Old 11-11-2011, 08:59 AM
 
30,126 posts, read 47,353,596 times
Reputation: 16070
Mike Lupica's article
Seeking a victory for victims of Penn State sex abuse scandal - NY Daily News
makes a good point about Paterno's well-known and documented iron control over his football program...in the history of his reign as head coach Paterno was known to rule with absolute power--
his way or the highway---the trustees who came to discuss an earlier retirement when the team had a bad record were basically thrown out of his house by this old, frail man--because of the power of his reputation and his legend...
now Paterno says he did not know the whole story???
that he was "out of the loop" about what decisions were made regarding Sandusky???
that basically like Pontius Pilate he washed his hands of what happened after he passed McQuery and his "story" up to others...
that is as lame an excuse as Nixon's explanation for the 18 min gap in Watergate/White House tapes
http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...gate-tape.html

Paterno took the easy way out--don't ask, don't tell-regarding someone he worked with for decades-to avoid what he thought would cast a pall on his beloved football program...his decision was designed to avoid publicity, avoid transparency, and sacrifice at least one young boy to the maw of Sandusky's perverted behavior...he made his choice...

like most people in position of power who think that the law of physics (much less any man-made law) don't apply to them--
for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction...
well, he is about to see how bad that reaction can get...
 
Old 11-11-2011, 09:00 AM
 
10,720 posts, read 17,451,932 times
Reputation: 9920
A person's true character is revealed during challenging times. It's easy to be a good person and say the right things when you are winning and having success. Demanding grades first is honorable but relatively easy to do. What is not easy is reporting your friend of 20 years to the authorities for raping children and harming the reputation of your program. Joe Paterno is revered for his character. But a man of true character would have persevered through this difficult situation and would have reported his friend to the police for the welfare of children. A man of character would have also acknowledged his mistake and apologized for that mistake instead of saying he is disappointed with the university or doesn't agree with the university's decision.

Paterno failed on both counts. Paterno was given the ultimate test and he failed at that. The other things don't matter in my eyes. Paterno is not a person of character. Giving good speeches, and winning football games does not make one a good person.

Let this be a lesson to all of us. We will all be tested at some point in our lives and we can either choose self preservation or the right thing. What will you do?
 
Old 11-11-2011, 09:01 AM
 
10,779 posts, read 13,683,311 times
Reputation: 6289
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyAZ View Post
I see it more along the lines as Paterno admitted he should've done more to stop what was happening, how much did he REALLY know? NONE of us know that.

I just have a difficult time condemning someone like Paterno who has done so much for Penn State and for college football in general. It isn't like he doesn't care about the kids, if you know anything about Joe Paterno you should know how much he cared for every single one of his players both on and off the field. If you've read interviews with any of Paterno's players, they'll be the first to tell you how awesome an individual he is and how much they respect him. He IS an all-around great human being who made an error, I just can't condemn him for being human.

Sandusky can burn in hell for all I care, he's obviously sick and he should fry.

He knew, not once but twice, that Jerry Sandusky was in the shower with little boys. That part is 100% and undisputed. The only part that is in question is whether he was told specifically the act that Sandusky was perpertrarting.

His response the first time: force him to resign, but the guy was still allowed on campus.

The second time, he had his locker room keys taken away.

He didn't make a mistake, he was protecting his reputation by basically looking the other way at a child rapist, and in turn destroyed his own reputation. He did nothing near what he should have in either 1998 or 2002, and more kids could abused because he did nothing. Paterno can go to hell too.
 
Old 11-11-2011, 09:02 AM
 
Location: NJ
17,579 posts, read 39,782,292 times
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I would argue Paterno is NOT an all around great person who made ONE error. For 8 years he has chosen to let this continue. He saw Sandusky on campus. In the locker room. And every single day he chose to do nothing.
 
Old 11-11-2011, 09:04 AM
 
Location: NJ
17,579 posts, read 39,782,292 times
Reputation: 16147
I trully hope that Paterno is remembered for this first and foremost and whatever he did for football is an afterthought. And I hope he thinks about that every day.
 
Old 11-11-2011, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
4,486 posts, read 15,287,199 times
Reputation: 3936
Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
Let me ask you a hypothetical question. At what point would you draw the line between everything Paterno has done for football, how much he cared for his players, etc. vs. something bad? What if it turns out he actively petitioned for this not to go public? Do you still feel the same? What if it turns out he had innapropriate contact with a child (and it was proven it was only one time and never happened again)?

In your mind when do past good deeds stop outweighing the bad?
I've never been one to answer hypothetical situations but I'll bite.

I think we've ALL done things we aren't particularly proud of but should our mistakes in life outweigh any good we've done? I've made mistakes, none to this caliber, but still, I have regrets. I'd also like to think I've done quite a bit of good in life that hopefully outweighs any errors I've made.

I don't think any mistakes a person has made should completely destroy the good unless you've committed a crime such as rape, murder, etc etc.

There's enough blame to go around at Penn State and Joe did say he went to the athletic director who went to the President who chose to do nothing. I've never said Paterno was in the right to not do anything but I'm also not going to judge him solely upon his inaction.

If JoePa ever had indecent conduct with a child, I would have no mercy for what happens to him. Something like that is sick and twisted, I would think it should destroy his legacy because of the gravity of the offense.
 
Old 11-11-2011, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland
417 posts, read 310,689 times
Reputation: 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyAZ View Post

I don't think any mistakes a person has made should completely destroy the good unless you've committed a crime such as rape, murder, etc etc.

He was an enabler, which is equally as bad if not worse in this case.
 
Old 11-11-2011, 09:31 AM
 
10,779 posts, read 13,683,311 times
Reputation: 6289
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKrunner88 View Post
He was an enabler, which is equally as bad if not worse in this case.
I wouldn't go that far but it's all quibbling over semantics.

Paterno had more than enough power to usurp the President of the University. He basically was a direct contact with the person who ran Penn State police, he could have had Sandusky taken in in EITHER case of the 1998 and 2004 incidents...and all that time Sandusky is seen all over the place with kids at football camps and what not, shows up at practice.


There was also a story in 2005 about Penn State players getting in trouble for making prank phone calls to a "retired" member of the Penn State Football family. What do you think THAT was about, Hmm? Read between the lines on that one...players on Paterno's team probably heard that Sandusky was a creep, and they got in trouble for pranking him. Yeah, Paterno didn't know about anything.........
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