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Old 11-14-2011, 05:55 PM
788 posts, read 1,381,519 times
Reputation: 277


@andersoncooper: Atty says #sandusky showered w/ a child because "he is a jock...you take showers after you work out."

@RockCenterNBC: BREAKING: "I'm innocent of these charges" Jerry Sandusky tells Bob Costas in exclusive interview airing tonight 10p/9c NBC #RockCenter

@RockCenterNBC: More from #Sandusky interview: "I have horsed around" showered, touched, but no sexual intent. More #RockCenter 10p/9c

@RockCenterNBC: Sandusky to Costas: "I am not a pedophile." More #RockCenter 10p/9c

Old 11-14-2011, 06:01 PM
Location: Whidbey Island, WA
12,276 posts, read 11,345,633 times
Reputation: 6129
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
As a life long PSU fan and Penn stater myself I am just flabbergasted. How could a man that preaches the right thing, morality etc allow ten years to go by and still act oblivious to the situation. This all gets worse by the day

I am saddened by the lack of action and general humaity in this situation. I just dont even know what to say, this is well beyond football or a university, this is a tragic crime and perpetrator allowed to roam free for a decade plus. I am saddened and terribly dissapointed
Thank you for your post. The answer to your question is that all people have a part of their consciousness which is not pretty. Some people cannot control their "stranger" as Billy Joel called it. In most circumstances people come to terms with their darker side. In some cases they do not.

Typically it is people who have been not allowed to express these darker feelings and thoughts that run into trouble I hear. Sandusky, serial killers and predators whose ranks he now joins cannot connect the two aspects of themselves and they act it out many times in complete denial of their actions. How many times have we heard; "he was such a nice guy..." Due to their inability to manage these feelings they are dangerous and at the mercy of their impulses.

It is a tragedy. It's appropriate to be sad coming from your loyal background.

When I find a nurse or doctor who is abusing drugs and I work with them every day, my jaw hits the ground....every time. One can't really prepare for these revelations. It is like a ice cold glass of water in the face.

Have faith. There are more good people than this particular dysfunctional predatory man. I hope the FB team heals.
Old 11-14-2011, 07:21 PM
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,045 posts, read 102,757,343 times
Reputation: 33099
Originally Posted by TexasGirl@Heart View Post
Paterno did DO SOMETHING!!! He reported it to the AD and the President and they dropped the ball.

Could he have done more? ABSOLUTELY!!! Where he FAILED was reporting it to the police when he saw the AD and the President were doing nothing about it.

Paterno did what was REQUIRED of him by the schools CODE OF CONDUCT! Where he failed was his MORAL obligation.

Am I defending him? Hell no!! He should have done his MORAL OBLIGATION. Since he didn't, he failed and is guilty like the rest of them.

To say he did nothing tells me a lot of people don't have the facts!
This excuse of Paterno is something I find very disturbing. For those of you who aren't familiar with Penn State athletics, JoePa IS Penn State athlethics. If Paterno had wanted something to happen in this incident, he would have seen to it that something happened.

Originally Posted by dnvrsoul View Post
I still do not understand why everyone is blaming Joe-McQueary stated he isn't sure he told Joe pa that he saw a child being raped-he said he saw inappropriate behavior-
I don't get it...McQueary saw that child being RAPED and did nothing..he walked away and called his dad? If you and I are friends ...and you ran up to me and said "hey I saw a guy being inappropriate to a woman." And the woman was actually being raped-why is this my fault? I understand this is emotional and sickening-but Joe Pa is just a coach at the end of the day-he reported it to his superiors-just like he was supposed to-and they did nothing-in the world of school administration you do not "follow up" with incidence..when your superiors tell you it's being handled, you do not question it. What moral obligation? How about the moral obligation of Mcqueary? hindsight is 20/20 but how do you walk away when you SEE a child being raped? That to me makes me sick-
Actually that isn't true. I've read the grand jury report and I'm reading it right now. I can't copy/paste from it, so I'll just type the words straight from the report.

"Paterno called Tim Curley ("Curley"), Penn State Athletic Director and Paterno's immediate superior, to his home the very next day, a Sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing smething of a sexual nature to a young boy."
Old 11-14-2011, 08:58 PM
30,200 posts, read 47,428,287 times
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My understanding about what Paterno knew involves conflicting statements from McQueary and Paterno himself--there are 3 versions of what happened when McCreary told Paterno about what he saw Sandusky doing...

1. According to McQueary's testimony to the GH he called Paterno the morning after seeing Sandusky in the shower and went to his house and "reported what he saw". Which seems pretty straight forward and all inclusive--until you read what Paterno told the GJ...

I read in another story that McQueary's father went with him to Paterno's that AM and supposedly was there when Mike told Paterno what he saw...so there could be a 3rd eyewitness to the conversation..

Then GJT skips to Paterno's testimony--says that Paterno testified to receiving the GA's report at his home and that GA was very upset--but it does not specify WHAT McQueary told him--maybe the actual testimony is more specific. This would be the Saturday that Spring Break started.

Paterno called AD Curley (his immediate superior) to his house the very next day (like that was so quick-remember it is now over 36+ hours since Sandusky supposedly raped that boy...

And notice the incongruity--Paterno the subordinate calls his boss and has him come to HIS house on a SUNDAY to hear Paterno's report...Curley does not set the time/place for the meeting...like most bosses would...just points to fact that Paterno was the boss hog...

AT that meeting GJT says that Paterno reported to him (Curley) that the GA had seen Sandusky in the Lasch Bldg showers "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy"...

Note that is NOT what McQueary's statement says he told Paterno--so Paterno has watered down the actual event and substituted HIS interpretation for McQueary's account

Approx 10 days later McQueary is called to a meeting (obvious who's the subordinate now) with Curley and Schultz (who told him??? and why the 10 day delay??? All that took place the Friday before Sping Break--they were on VACATION...

Paterno was not AT that meeting. The GJT states that the GA told the two admins that he believed he had witnessed Sandusky having anal sex with a young boy in the Lasch showers (much more graphic than just fondling).. and again what McQueary claims he told Paterno initially.

The two men told him they would "look into it and discuss what further action they needed to take..."

The GA heard back from Curley about two weeks later that Sandusky was losing his keys and being reported to Second Mile...McQueary was NEVER questioned by campus police or city police.
The kicker for me is a line that says "The Grand Jury finds the GA's testimony extremely convincing"...later it says that the GJ failed to believe either Curley's or Schultz's testimony which is why they were charged as they were...

So you have McQueary telling the GJ that he told Paterno a "full report".
Paterno said that he "received the student's report"--yet he only told Curley McQueary saw some "fondling" maybe...

AFTER Paterno's testimony to the GJ--(where he said he received McQueary's "report") he also issued a statement that said he wanted to "clarify" his GJ testimony
In it he said that at the time McQueary came to his house and started to tell him what he saw Sandusky doing that Paterno STOPPED HIM from giving a full disclosure...

this is NOT what McQueary told the GJ apparently--his testimony is that he made a full disclosure to anyone in authority who asked him...

Why is this conflict/confusion so important--
because of Paterno's credability and knowledge...
1--McQueary says Paterno knew everything
2--Paterno told Curly McQueary said Sandusky was "fondling"
3--then Paterno tells the news media that he stopped a full disclosure from McCreary--
Why would he do that? Why NOT want to know the whole truth? Why tell the Grand Jury he got McQueary's testiment but then come back and say he stopped him from telling him ALL the truth

Because either 1--Paterno already knew how McQueary was going to finish that statement,
or 2--Paterno did not want to know the truth so he could play dumb later and have deniability about the serious nature of Sandusky's behavior

Every time anyone but McQueary tells the story Sandusky's behavior gets watered down--
just the act of doing that creates a cover up for the brutality involved...

And does anyone really think that Joe Paterno--after calling Curley to HIS house for that meeting--was going to ignore what Curley and Schultz did afterwards--
I can't buy that--Sandusky might not have been his asst coach any more but supposedly they were friends, Sandusky still had access to Paterno's facilities, Sandusky was acting for the PSU football team by scouting out possible recruits...

What were they doing for the 10 days after their meeting with McQueary--knitting???
NO campus police interviewed McQueary!
NO city police did either!
and that is NOT a coverup--I think those guys need to be charged with accessory to any rape that happened after 2002 frankly...

schultz's GJ testimony is that he does not recall McQueary using the description of "anal rape" when describing what he saw Sandusky doing with the boy in the shower. While Schultz agrees that would a much more serious charge/situation that "horsing around" or "grapping the boy's genitals while wrestling", he says that the allegations were not "that serious" and that he and Curley "had no indication a crime had occurred"...

Doesn't that sound an awful lot like what Sandusky was trying to pedal tonight with that interview with Bob Costas tonight??
and doen't it sound like Schultz got the wrestling story in the high school gym confused with taking a shower with horseplay???
frankly I don't think anyone would want to be wrestling around on a shower floor...

And I can't believe that all this info is going around and there is NOTHING in writing--no written statements taken--no written record of a meeting was made--
no written declaration to the Second Mile charity when they reported Sandusky for conduct that "made a grad student uncomfortable" as they put it...
no paper trail means more deniabilty...

Last edited by loves2read; 11-14-2011 at 09:44 PM..
Old 11-15-2011, 03:44 AM
Location: right here
4,131 posts, read 4,786,457 times
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Katiana-I'm not sure I understand what isn't true??? Macqueary walked away while a child was being raped?? So what is your point? Paterno called the athletic director because it's not clear how much Macquery really told Paterno-I'm sure Paterno didn't think it was that serious...Macqueary waited 24 hours before he bothered to call Joe Paterno???? If you saw someone being murdered would you wait to call..24 hours later???
Old 11-15-2011, 05:50 AM
Location: Indianapolis
3,675 posts, read 7,851,911 times
Reputation: 2333
I heard on Mike and Mike on ESPN radio this morning that there's more to the Mcqueary (sp?) incident in the locker room. There are new stories coming out that he indeed DID stop the rape in the locker room before leaving. He can't tell his side right now due to "some legal issues" but it will come out.

I am not sure if there's ANY truth to this but it is just the newest thing I heard this morning which I had not heard before and kind of surprised me actually.
Old 11-15-2011, 06:41 AM
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
6,239 posts, read 15,463,592 times
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Jerry Sandusky: 'I shouldn't have showered with those kids' - latimes.com

This response doesn't surprise me in the least. My ex-husband issued the same categorical denial about molesting our daughter when confronted.

So many people saw what happened in this case, and there was more than one or even two victims. How this man can stand there and calmly deny that anything happened beyond "horseplay" (oh, is that what you're calling child rape these days? ) is just sickening.
Old 11-15-2011, 07:01 AM
12,870 posts, read 13,156,110 times
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i thought costas did a good job in the interview and sandusky continues to hang himself. i bet his lawyer just wants him to shut up! he is so disturbed that he doesn't even get it at all.

Bob Costas FULL interview with Jerry Sandusky - YouTube

at least 10 more victims now. this isn't going away this time. you have to wonder if any families of the previous victims were paid off for their silence.

sandusky said that paterno didn't ask him anything, but that is hard to believe --in light of the fact that he was forced out as defensive coach, and not because he was a bad coach.
Old 11-15-2011, 07:23 AM
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,045 posts, read 102,757,343 times
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Originally Posted by dnvrsoul View Post
Katiana-I'm not sure I understand what isn't true??? Macqueary walked away while a child was being raped?? So what is your point? Paterno called the athletic director because it's not clear how much Macquery really told Paterno-I'm sure Paterno didn't think it was that serious...Macqueary waited 24 hours before he bothered to call Joe Paterno???? If you saw someone being murdered would you wait to call..24 hours later???
Yes, McQueary walked away while a child was being raped. He made a very poor decision.

You'e sure Paterno didn't think "fondling or doing smething of a sexual nature to a young boy" was 'serious'? That is how he reported it on to the next person. Just what should Paterno think was serious?

And no, if I saw someone being murdered I wouldn't wait to call. In fact, when my then 23 year old daughter came home and said she'd been in an accident I told her she had to call the police. But I don't know what point is being made about my behavior, since I'm not part of the story.
Old 11-15-2011, 07:43 AM
30,200 posts, read 47,428,287 times
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Paterno's explanation apparently is that Sandusky was too divided in his loyalty--spending too much time with the Second Mile for Paterno to choose him as a replacement at Penn State...as to why Sandusky retired when he did--it allowed Sandusky to take advantage of "favorable situation" with his retirement pension...and devote more time to Second Mile--that became his "job"...

well--one reason I retired from teaching in TX when I did was because of a pending change in Social Security regulations that would have severly limited the amount of spousal SS I would be able to draw in the future when my husband and I were drawing SS
But I don't believe that is why Sandusky retired when he did and I guess you would really have to have a financial actuary investigate and see if there was a window of opportunity there for Sandusky to maximize his pension--to actually validate his explanation--since everything these people are saying could involve a coverup of Sandusky's past actions and their knowledge of it...

Everyone knows the timeline--that he retired after the campus police were involved investigating the "boy with the wet hair" incident where the mom had the phone conversation twice with Sandusky that was listened in (recorded?) by campus police or child protective agents...

Schultz as admin in charge of campus police had to be told about that--although he said he could not remember that incident during his GJ testimony....
campus police would NEVER investigate Sandusky while he was an employee w/o telling Schultz--and I think they would likely tell the President of the college as well--Sandusky was one of the most significant employees of PSU at that time...
do you think they would investigate someone like Paterno and not tell the President that investigation was underway??? Sandusky was Paterno's right-hand man...his heir-apparent--no way they kept that compartmentalized because they would be too afraid of stepping on someone's toes...

I think McQueary volunteered to give testimony to the Grand Jury--
otherwise how did they even know that story???
Sandusky would not be revealing it to anyone...You can believe that Paterno, Schultz, Curley, the college president--THEY were not volunteering that info to the police or the DA...
supposedly none of the men gave testimony at the grand jury that said they KNEW the boy in the shower that McQueary saw--so they could not go to him and ask him about it and he was not called at the grand jury...
So HOW did McQueary wind up giving testimony if the police were not contacted, if the boy in question was never found/known/questioned in the past, if no one connected with Penn State would be revealing that info voluntarily...
the ONLY explanation to me is that either McQueary himself heard about the investigation that started after one of Sandusky's "boys" reported the abuse as a crime to the police and went to the police with his story of the shower incident or McQueary's dad (who knew) or maybe someone else McQueary told (his wife/mother/friend) either told police Mcqueary had knowledge or convinced him to go forward...

If what McQueary's email mentioned is true--that he did interceed and stop the rape--
what he did after that was certainly not really addressed in the GJ testimony--it only says that he saw the two people involved and they saw him--he was distraught at what he saw--went to his office--and called his dad--who told him to leave the bldg...
nothing about interrupting the assault
I don't know if it was redacted afterwards from the printed copies or the DA did not persue questioning McCready during his testimony--

I am sure there is lot of information that will come forward--

my question is about what Sandusky's attorney said last night--that they know who the boy in McQueary's story is and that he will come forward and deny there was assault...
I want to know if they did get a young man to come forward to lie for Sandusky could they prove he was lying??? Since NO ONE apparently bothered to get that boy's name--even when they apparently must have made some effort to talk to Sandusky about what happened???
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