U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > College Football
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 01-26-2012, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,056 posts, read 30,544,535 times
Reputation: 10490

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
Didnt Bear Bryant die a few months after retirement and that is one of the reasons Paterno didnt ever want to retire?
So if he didn't retire, he'd never die? I suppose that makes sense in a strange, college football coach sort of way.

 
Old 01-26-2012, 01:53 PM
 
10,720 posts, read 17,456,108 times
Reputation: 9920
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
Once you step away from the keyboard and the world of blogosphere, the reality that everyone knows on some level but doesn't want to admit is that people frequently botch these kinds of situations. People frequently fail to do the 'right' or 'courageous' thing when confronted with a potentially ugly reality. It explains why people stand around and watch some guy get pummeled by a thug on a train, or why neighbors listen to their neighbor beat the hell out of his wife and children. It explains why, in some neighborhoods, nobody calls the cops when they hear gunshots outside their apartment. It explains why an agent at an airline counter doesn't alert airport security about a bizarre $2500-3000 plane ticket and the eyes of rage of one Muhammad Atta on the morning of September 11, 2001. It's called fear. People are afraid of getting involved. People are afraid of starting a process that will get ugly for people they meet or people they know, not knowing all the facts, and not knowing how it will all eventually turn out in the end; not knowing who will get hurt, who will be victimized, and the truth behind it all. So people like Joe Paterno do nothing, because it's safe, it's easy, it's the known over the unknown. I'm sure I'll catch a little hell for saying that, but that's fine; I'm talking about reality here, not the world of internet message board heroes. How people say they would respond, and how they would actually respond in the heat of the moment, when it's their reputation and the reputation of people they live next to or work with, are two different things.
I disagree with your analogies. In the analogies you provided, people's personal safety was at risk. I can understand not calling the cops in a bad neighborhood because the retribution is that your family could be killed. That is not analagous to this situation in the slightest. Paterno's personal safety was never in danger. Paterno covered up for a friend.

And Paterno's reputation was not at stake. If Joe did the right thing and reported Sandusky, the public would have understood and likely hailed him as a hero and for standing up for his principles. This was about misguided principles. Joe felt his loyalty to Sandusky and PSU superceded the welfare of the children. He made a mistake. We shouldn't let him off the hook because he is Joe Paterno. Great men are capable of making mistakes and he made one. Yes, he very much was guilty of committing a grave mistake. Paterno's legacy shouldn't be identified by the Sandusky tragedy but in the same way, we shouldn't depict Joe as a victim or that he didn't commit a mistake because he did.

I've been asked what I would do in that situation. Sure, I would be nervous and scared to report a friend but I would also ask myself "What if that was my kid" I think most decent people would ask that question and would react appropriately. I absolutely think it was a conscious decision by Joe Paterno to not report his friend to the authorities.
 
Old 01-26-2012, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh--Home of the 6 time Super Bowl Champions!
11,309 posts, read 11,184,410 times
Reputation: 4916
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
I don't think he was too old, but I think he might have been confused about what to do.

A lot of people have talked over the past few months about what they would have done in his situation. I have no doubt that some of the people might have handled the situation more courageously than Paterno did, but many others would not. I think those who wouldn't have followed it up would have been guilty of a tragic kind of negligence, just as Joe Paterno was, but as inexplicable as it might seem, I also could understand how it happens.

Once you step away from the keyboard and the world of blogosphere, the reality that everyone knows on some level but doesn't want to admit is that people frequently botch these kinds of situations. People frequently fail to do the 'right' or 'courageous' thing when confronted with a potentially ugly reality. It explains why people stand around and watch some guy get pummeled by a thug on a train, or why neighbors listen to their neighbor beat the hell out of his wife and children. It explains why, in some neighborhoods, nobody calls the cops when they hear gunshots outside their apartment. It explains why an agent at an airline counter doesn't alert airport security about a bizarre $2500-3000 plane ticket and the eyes of rage of one Muhammad Atta on the morning of September 11, 2001. It's called fear. People are afraid of getting involved. People are afraid of starting a process that will get ugly for people they meet or people they know, not knowing all the facts, and not knowing how it will all eventually turn out in the end; not knowing who will get hurt, who will be victimized, and the truth behind it all. So people like Joe Paterno do nothing, because it's safe, it's easy, it's the known over the unknown. I'm sure I'll catch a little hell for saying that, but that's fine; I'm talking about reality here, not the world of internet message board heroes. How people say they would respond, and how they would actually respond in the heat of the moment, when it's their reputation and the reputation of people they live next to or work with, are two different things.

Joe Paterno messed up, and people got hurt for it. He's the guy who didn't do enough, but I don't think he's the bad guy here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
What is unfortunate is how polarized the opinions are. Like with anything the truth is in the middle. I don't consider Joe a victim. He commited a mistake and paid dearly for that mistake. And he deserved the backlash for his mistake. Retaining a person who raped children is unforgivable. Any reasonable person would have reported him to the authorities. And if the school did nothing about it, that person would have fired that person from their staff. I understand that was not an easy situation for Joe Paterno to be in. Sandusky was his friend and he wanted to protect him but that doesn't mean he should have and it doesn't mean you allow your personal feelings for someone to take precedence over the safety and well being of children.

That being said, Joe was a great man. He did many great things for this country. He benefitted countless people and accomplished far more great things than bad ones. His legacy should not be identified by the Sandusky tragedy. He is a great man and great men make mistakes.

I really wish all of us could accept the truth above but instead people either demonize him or make him a saint. He was neither. He was a great man and great men are capable of making grave mistakes which he committed.
I wish I could rep you both 1000 times for the above posts!! This is exactly how I feel.

I LOVE THE TERM KEYBOARD HEROS!!! So true!!!
 
Old 01-26-2012, 06:13 PM
 
Location: Sunshine N'Blue Skies
13,320 posts, read 20,149,258 times
Reputation: 11645
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
I disagree with your analogies. In the analogies you provided, people's personal safety was at risk. I can understand not calling the cops in a bad neighborhood because the retribution is that your family could be killed. That is not analagous to this situation in the slightest. Paterno's personal safety was never in danger. Paterno covered up for a friend.

And Paterno's reputation was not at stake. If Joe did the right thing and reported Sandusky, the public would have understood and likely hailed him as a hero and for standing up for his principles. This was about misguided principles. Joe felt his loyalty to Sandusky and PSU superceded the welfare of the children. He made a mistake. We shouldn't let him off the hook because he is Joe Paterno. Great men are capable of making mistakes and he made one. Yes, he very much was guilty of committing a grave mistake. Paterno's legacy shouldn't be identified by the Sandusky tragedy but in the same way, we shouldn't depict Joe as a victim or that he didn't commit a mistake because he did.

I've been asked what I would do in that situation. Sure, I would be nervous and scared to report a friend but I would also ask myself "What if that was my kid" I think most decent people would ask that question and would react appropriately. I absolutely think it was a conscious decision by Joe Paterno to not report his friend to the authorities.
From what I understand he " did" report Sandusky. I thought it was to the administrators. Thus, the fault belongs to them for not pulling him( Sandusky) out and carting him to the police. Paterno got the info second hand and so its not like he was there and saw the criminal act
In fact if it was our child, and we got any word of this, you can bet as a parent or grandparent....we'd follow through. Most certainly......
 
Old 01-27-2012, 07:26 AM
 
Location: NE PA
7,936 posts, read 13,868,205 times
Reputation: 4382
All I have to say is, living here in Pennsyltucky, where PSU football is a religion and Joe Paterno is revered more than Jesus Christ, and high school football scores matter more to the cheap-beer-swilling and chain-smoking populace than SAT scores, this past week or so and even few months has proven to me that PSU football is almost like a cult....the way people worship Paterno in PA is almost cult-like. People make every excuse in the book for him. But if he was a dean and Sandusky was a professor, everything else in the situation equal, they would have formed a lynch mob and drove Paterno out of town a long time ago. But since he was the pope of their football religion, he's worshipped. They must be serving up some good blue and white Kool-Aid in Happy Valley.

And lets be honest, the guy only won 2 championships in almost 60 years....not exactly a dynasty. And the whole "integrity with honor" has proven to be a bunch of BS, with the Sandusky coverup, and also revelations from the person at PSU who was in charge of disciplinary issues saying that Paterno would stonewall her anytime they were investigating illegal behavior by football players, insisting on keeping football players out of courts and handling those issues "in house." To me, it makes all of the other college football scandals....USC, OSU, SMU, etc., look like jaywalking in comparison.
 
Old 01-27-2012, 09:16 AM
 
Location: NE PA
7,936 posts, read 13,868,205 times
Reputation: 4382
Norris J. Chumley, Ph.D.: Is the Media Whitewashing Joe Paterno?
 
Old 01-27-2012, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh--Home of the 6 time Super Bowl Champions!
11,309 posts, read 11,184,410 times
Reputation: 4916
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post

I've been asked what I would do in that situation. Sure, I would be nervous and scared to report a friend but I would also ask myself "What if that was my kid" I think most decent people would ask that question and would react appropriately. I absolutely think it was a conscious decision by Joe Paterno to not report his friend to the authorities.
I disagree---He did go to Curley and say "I think we might have a problem here." That is per the Grand Jury report. So he did report it to his next chain of command, (Curley) who was responsible for taking it to the state police. Why isn't anyone vilifying Curley or Schultz for that matter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summering View Post
From what I understand he " did" report Sandusky. I thought it was to the administrators. Thus, the fault belongs to them for not pulling him( Sandusky) out and carting him to the police. Paterno got the info second hand and so its not like he was there and saw the criminal act ..
I saw one poster yesterday (0n the true crimes thread) posting as if Joe SAW the crime happen. He didn't see anything--it was all second hand information.
 
Old 01-27-2012, 10:13 AM
 
1,080 posts, read 827,933 times
Reputation: 1201
Reps Mr. Yuk! It is downright embarrassing and a crying shame for a community/school/anyone for that matter, to equate 'great' with 'rape', they are not interchangeable and/or synonymous, oxymoronic if you will. . . . . what fools these mortals be!

Qui non obstat quod obstare potest facere videtur - Latin: an individual who does not prevent something which he/she could of prevented, is taken to have done that thing.

 
Old 01-27-2012, 10:29 AM
 
5,507 posts, read 9,279,734 times
Reputation: 2289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Yuk View Post
All I have to say is, living here in Pennsyltucky, where PSU football is a religion and Joe Paterno is revered more than Jesus Christ, and high school football scores matter more to the cheap-beer-swilling and chain-smoking populace than SAT scores, this past week or so and even few months has proven to me that PSU football is almost like a cult....the way people worship Paterno in PA is almost cult-like. People make every excuse in the book for him. But if he was a dean and Sandusky was a professor, everything else in the situation equal, they would have formed a lynch mob and drove Paterno out of town a long time ago. But since he was the pope of their football religion, he's worshipped. They must be serving up some good blue and white Kool-Aid in Happy Valley.

And lets be honest, the guy only won 2 championships in almost 60 years....not exactly a dynasty. And the whole "integrity with honor" has proven to be a bunch of BS, with the Sandusky coverup, and also revelations from the person at PSU who was in charge of disciplinary issues saying that Paterno would stonewall her anytime they were investigating illegal behavior by football players, insisting on keeping football players out of courts and handling those issues "in house." To me, it makes all of the other college football scandals....USC, OSU, SMU, etc., look like jaywalking in comparison.
Well Penn State really isn't an elite program. They clearly have lower expectations because like you said his results were not amazing. The last decade was pretty poor.
 
Old 01-27-2012, 01:18 PM
 
1,080 posts, read 827,933 times
Reputation: 1201
Dynasty/Elite or not, it really doesn't matter, PSU is the largest money maker in the NCAA and has a great economic impact on the state, and although it has been discussed ad nauseum, the bottom line is $$$$$$, ~4.1billion, hence the reason for such adulation, mirrors the catholic church, an entire culture of pedophilia coverup.

Here is the lastest craze, even the Gov. is in on it, he orders flags flown half staff, what a effin joke!

Corbett's Half-Staff Flag Order For Paterno Sparks Debate (http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/politics/local_politics/Paterno_Half-Staff_Flags_Debate_Corbett_012612 - broken link)
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > College Football
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top