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Old 11-20-2011, 06:22 AM
 
Location: Chicago
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Conventional wisdom tells me that the private universities in big time football are supposed to play second fiddle and take a licking from the big boys, those gigantic state universities.

Is CW being turned on its ear?

I'll point to USC to start with, although it might be a bad example because USC has always played like the best of the state schools. But let's give the Trojans their due; they knocked Oregon out of the BCS championship game, a game the Ducks might well have been expected to play.

And down the road from Eugene in Palo Alto, Stanford won (although way below the point spread) the Big Game against Cal. The Cardinal are easily on tract for a BCS bowl if they beat another private school, Notre Dame (which like SC has always been an exception to the rule).

But this weekend's BCS earthquake went well beyond Eugene. It happened in Waco, too, where Baylor knocked off Oklahoma in the first time in its history, leaving the Sooners to lick their wounds along with the Pokes.

Vandy didn't beat Tennessee (in Knoxville, yet), but was expected to. And was very, very close. Based on the way the Commodores have been playing, it almost appears their in a new conference...the SEC....where their play indicates they belong.

In the ACC, new member BC is competitive and seems to belong; the conference wouldn't be taking Syracuse if it didn't think it was going to be a quality member. Wake looks good, very good at times. And Duke improved an able to play with the big boys.

It's been a decade and a half since Northwestern has looked totally Big Ten, not some poor relative. The Wildcats go bowl eligible for the fifth straight year. And unless you've been living on a rock, NU should not be the school you think of when you think of the basement of the Big Ten. Minnesota and Indiana occupy those spots. In the battle of NU vs. NU this year, it was Northwestern over Nebraska.

Houston, a public school and undefeated team, gets to host ESPN's game day because the match up was against a very good SMU team.

Miami and BYU have proven their power as private schools over the years. Tulane has had its successes. Amazingly even has Rice.

So....would I be right in concluding we are in a different era? Is the age of Private U being outscored by State U, 72-0, is over and the privates can more than hold their own in big time play? Y'think?

I don't know about you, but seeing what I'm seeing, that's how I'd crunch the numbers. And for the life of me, I can't think of any of the privates that are really deep in the pits, a place years ago many of them were.
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Old 11-20-2011, 11:38 AM
 
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Default Well....Yes and No.

Technically speaking we've probably been in a new era since the late 80s/90s. Definetly since y2k. TV exposure has EXPLODED and scholarship limits spread the talent around more. That definetly helps the privates. Still it always does depend on your staff and support from the school. Not to mention your abliity to recruit.

Wake Forest and Vandy seem to be doing something special. Some body REALLY missed out on James Franklin and Jim Grobe at coach. They will have real up and down stretches,and I doubt they will ever be true contenders for the top of the conference (barring the occasional magical year) but they will compete I can tell you that. Duke is doing the same thing to a lesser extent.

(As an ACC guy though, I can tell you that if NCST and UNC REALLY fufill their potential it will be hard for DUke and WF to be any thing more than spoilers due to small school size and trouble competing against conference bretheren for top of the line talent)

So yea, there is a rise of sorts.



Now that being said.

USC has ALWAYS kicked ass, It is private but has HUGE enrollment.

Stanford has history now, but it's checkered. They were REALLY great in 20s-30s. THen there was 70s success with Ralston and Walsh at the healm. Now I think they can be a sustainable success. Not always at Luck/Harbaugh levels, but they can consistently compete for the PAC every few years or so, they can attract national talent and they have a lot of money.

TCU was big time in the 60s remember. Baylor had intermittent success in the 80s under Grant Teaff. They again can keep going too.

BYU is a little like Notre Dame in school status, football wise it's been successful for a while (Lavell Edwards anyone?) just not for the length or level as the Domers.

Miami is Miami, they'll have some troubles with the scandal penalities and likely won't be QUITE as dominant as they once were but they'll be back.

So it's a yes and no answer.

Either way it's great for college football to have new faces in there, provides more drama and more fans (and more money). CFB never really had the same variety of contenders as CBB has been known for. Think that's changing and I love it.
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Old 11-20-2011, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Midtown Omaha
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ND, Miami, USC, SMU, TCU, and BYU all have strong history and are private. I wouldn't say this is a new trend.
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Old 11-20-2011, 10:00 PM
JJG
 
Location: Fort Worth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamjacobm View Post
ND, Miami, USC, SMU, TCU, and BYU all have strong history and are private. I wouldn't say this is a new trend.
It's seen as new because (it seems) that the average College Football fan has very short memories...
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Chicago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJG View Post
It's seen as new because (it seems) that the average College Football fan has very short memories...
as the original poster, I of course was well aware of the success of USC, ND, Miami, TCU, etc.

The first two have always been a strong factor in the game.

my contention here is not to suddenly realize that the elite of the privates has always been in place, but to echo (from coast to coast) the successes that the privates are having in college football. If you take the nation from the west with Stanford to the middle with Northwestern and the east with Wake (and a lot of schools that go with them), it would be hard not argue that this is one of the best eras for the privates in their undermanned battle with the state schools.
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:44 AM
 
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I can get with that sentiment.

It's really great frankly.

However, have to worry with all this realignment crap. Some people may be squeezed out because they are not big enough or not near a good market or stupid crap like that. Hell even some BIG STATE Us were in trouble.
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Midtown Omaha
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The 80's were a vasty superior decade for the private schools.

They won 4 Heisman Trophies. 5 National titles. Freaking Baylor won a conference championship in the 80s.

You are claiming a 6-5 Northwestern and a 6-5 Wake as evidence of one of the best eras from private schools? What a crappy gold standard.

The past 5 years have been some of the worst for private school football programs in history actually.
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Old 11-21-2011, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
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I really don't think this has anything to do with privates vs. public, or scholarship limits. There is a lot of high school talent today - and you can see how historically tier 2 schools like Kansas St. or Oklahoma St. now compete with the best.

Stanford is good because they hired a really good coach, and they have a great QB.

Miami has historically been powerful, but they are a mess.

ND has historically been powerful, but they haven't been special in some time. They'll probably come back to power eventually.

Some of the big publics, like Texas and Ohio State, are down now but for different reasons. They will get back on track too because of who they are.

TCU was mediocre for a long time. They had some success with Franchione, but Patterson has proven how good he is. I think he is an example of a great coach that coaches his team to excellence even with a small student body, smaller budget, and almost no 5 star players.
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:21 PM
 
1,261 posts, read 1,770,321 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamjacobm View Post
The 80's were a vasty superior decade for the private schools.

They won 4 Heisman Trophies. 5 National titles. Freaking Baylor won a conference championship in the 80s.

You are claiming a 6-5 Northwestern and a 6-5 Wake as evidence of one of the best eras from private schools? What a crappy gold standard.

The past 5 years have been some of the worst for private school football programs in history actually.
I'm looking as an average.

BYU. ND amd Miami are down I'll give you that. But Northwestern, Wake, Duke? These places should be at 2 wins getting plastered like mid-majors.
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Midtown Omaha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waltlantz View Post
I'm looking as an average.

BYU. ND amd Miami are down I'll give you that. But Northwestern, Wake, Duke? These places should be at 2 wins getting plastered like mid-majors.
Northwestern won multiple conference championships in the late 90s and 2000. Wake won a conference championship 5 years ago. Duke has 3 wins...

I'm just trying to show how this isn't a new trend...at all. Some of the best examples of the "rise" of the private schools are 3 teams with a combined record of 15-18, that just doesn't make sense to me.

If trading NC contenders for teams that go .500 is progress then maybe I am wrong.
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