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Old 01-09-2012, 02:26 PM
 
5,102 posts, read 5,991,202 times
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"The South loves its football"

As do many, many other areas. Let's be honest, the reason why college football became popular is because the Deep South had no pro teams for a long time and the established schools that make up the SEC are at a reasonable distance.

Plus most every bowl is a home game.

Ask fans to go west, and um, not so much.
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Old 01-09-2012, 04:37 PM
 
5,507 posts, read 9,291,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
"The South loves its football"

As do many, many other areas. Let's be honest, the reason why college football became popular is because the Deep South had no pro teams for a long time and the established schools that make up the SEC are at a reasonable distance.

Plus most every bowl is a home game.

Ask fans to go west, and um, not so much.
SEC fans will travel where the game is.
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Old 01-09-2012, 04:37 PM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
13,227 posts, read 18,008,236 times
Reputation: 14678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. GE View Post
The Big 10 is down because of the economic collapse? The economy is bad in the south too...
During the early 1980's, there was a recession in the United States. It was cyclical for most of the country, but structural in parts of the Northeast and the Midwest. Basically, "cyclical" means that any jobs lost would come back when the economy got better, and "structural" means that jobs were lost forever and never coming back. There's a big difference, but apparently it's too nuanced for some people.

The areas with cyclical job losses began to recover by the mid-1980's, but the areas with structural job losses did not begin to recover until the early 2000's, because of the fundamental economic identity change that took place. Many people, including many families, were forced to move from areas with structural job losses to areas with cyclical job losses to be guaranteed job opportunities once the economy got better, which directly benefited the South at the expense of the Northeast and Midwest.

During the 1980's and 1990's, there was a significant displacement of football talent from the Northeast and Midwest to the South with all the families moving away. All the displaced kids that were born from the mid-1980's onward who probably would have played Big Ten football had they stayed would play SEC or ACC football instead, and would help enhance the already fertile recruiting grounds in the South.

And I know you're asking why a structural economic collapse in the Northeast and Midwest in the early 1980's is so important. It's because football players born at that time would be of college age by the early 2000's, which is when the Big Ten's football quality began to markedly deteriorate. It did so because the talent stream got much smaller as an after-effect of the economic collapse, and since those economies that collapsed would not begin to recover until the early 2000's, the potential talent stream will remain a trickle until the early 2020's or so, when children born in the early 2000's reach college age.

None of this has to make any sense to you, and quite frankly, given the boastful nature of your reply to me, I don't expect it to, but the truth is, there are long-term residual effects in the aftermath of fundamental changes in demographic forces, and the stream of potential college football talent drying to a trickle in the Northeast and Midwest while turning into a deluge in the South is, believe it or not, one of those residual effects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. GE View Post
and you believe that the SEC players come from family's that migrated south? where's this proof?
Are you denying that lots of families from the Northeast and Midwest moved to the South during the 1980's and 1990's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. GE View Post
And what dominance are you talking about in the early 2000's? because Ohio State won a Natty that makes them dominant?
The Big Ten was a high-quality football conference until about 10 years ago, which coincides with children born during the recession of the early 1980's reaching college age.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. GE View Post
The Big 12 and Pac 10 were both been more powerful than the Big 10 in the early 2000's.... I think its funny how the Big 10 compares itself to the SEC but the SEC doesnt compare itself with the Big 10. I think the Big 10 should compare itself to the Big 12 and Pac 10/12 first. I think those conferences are better than the Big 10.
If you don't think that the SEC compares itself to the Big Ten, then you're fooling yourself.

First of all, the SEC compares itself to everybody. ("SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC!") In fact, after tonight's game, many students at the University of Kentucky will celebrate another BCS National Championship for the SEC, even though they and their favorite team had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Second of all, I moved with my family to an SEC college town in 1995. When the subject of conversation turned to college football, out came the snide "Big Ten country" remarks. And this was before the Big Ten fell off. I didn't provoke them either, and personally, I didn't care which conference Penn State was in, so it never occurred to me to compare college football conferences until "University of the SEC" fans did so.
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Old 01-09-2012, 04:38 PM
 
5,507 posts, read 9,291,416 times
Reputation: 2289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. GE View Post
The Big 10 is down because of the economic collapse? The economy is bad in the south too...

and you believe that the SEC players come from family's that migrated south? where's this proof?

And what dominance are you talking about in the early 2000's? because Ohio State won a Natty that makes them dominant?

This article sounds like a lot of excuses that have nothing to do with football...

The Big 12 and Pac 10 were both been more powerful than the Big 10 in the early 2000's.... I think its funny how the Big 10 compares itself to the SEC but the SEC doesnt compare itself with the Big 10. I think the Big 10 should compare itself to the Big 12 and Pac 10/12 first. I think those conferences are better than the Big 10.
The only thing the Big 10 and SEC have in common these days is fan support at the top schools.
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Old 01-09-2012, 04:45 PM
 
5,507 posts, read 9,291,416 times
Reputation: 2289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
During the early 1980's, there was a recession in the United States. It was cyclical for most of the country, but structural in parts of the Northeast and the Midwest. Basically, "cyclical" means that any jobs lost would come back when the economy got better, and "structural" means that jobs were lost forever and never coming back. There's a big difference, but apparently it's too nuanced for some people.

The areas with cyclical job losses began to recover by the mid-1980's, but the areas with structural job losses did not begin to recover until the early 2000's, because of the fundamental economic identity change that took place. Many people, including many families, were forced to move from areas with structural job losses to areas with cyclical job losses to be guaranteed job opportunities once the economy got better, which directly benefited the South at the expense of the Northeast and Midwest.

During the 1980's and 1990's, there was a significant displacement of football talent from the Northeast and Midwest to the South with all the families moving away. All the displaced kids that were born from the mid-1980's onward who probably would have played Big Ten football had they stayed would play SEC or ACC football instead, and would help enhance the already fertile recruiting grounds in the South.

And I know you're asking why a structural economic collapse in the Northeast and Midwest in the early 1980's is so important. It's because football players born at that time would be of college age by the early 2000's, which is when the Big Ten's football quality began to markedly deteriorate. It did so because the talent stream got much smaller as an after-effect of the economic collapse, and since those economies that collapsed would not begin to recover until the early 2000's, the potential talent stream will remain a trickle until the early 2020's or so, when children born in the early 2000's reach college age.

None of this has to make any sense to you, and quite frankly, given the boastful nature of your reply to me, I don't expect it to, but the truth is, there are long-term residual effects in the aftermath of fundamental changes in demographic forces, and the stream of potential college football talent drying to a trickle in the Northeast and Midwest while turning into a deluge in the South is, believe it or not, one of those residual effects.



Are you denying that lots of families from the Northeast and Midwest moved to the South during the 1980's and 1990's?



The Big Ten was a high-quality football conference until about 10 years ago, which coincides with children born during the recession of the early 1980's reaching college age.



If you don't think that the SEC compares itself to the Big Ten, then you're fooling yourself.

First of all, the SEC compares itself to everybody. ("SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC!") In fact, after tonight's game, many students at the University of Kentucky will celebrate another BCS National Championship for the SEC, even though they and their favorite team had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Second of all, I moved with my family to an SEC college town in 1995. When the subject of conversation turned to college football, out came the snide "Big Ten country" remarks. And this was before the Big Ten fell off. I didn't provoke them either, and personally, I didn't care which conference Penn State was in, so it never occurred to me to compare college football conferences until "University of the SEC" fans did so.
Big 10 was only a couple programs if you expand it past those ten years. You sound like you have some animosity due to your move and dealing with SEC fans.

I've heard this theory from Big 10 fans before. It's a nice reason to explain being average at it's best. At worst it's just an excuse. Either way it's not going to help much in the future in changing the current situation.
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Old 01-09-2012, 06:00 PM
 
5,102 posts, read 5,991,202 times
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Quote:
SEC fans will travel where the game is.
Yes they will travel to the southeastern location where the game is.
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Old 01-09-2012, 06:03 PM
 
4,749 posts, read 3,617,676 times
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I really think that besides the factors I already mentioned, another factor is that high school football is huge in the south. Some state high school systems are almost like developmental leagues for the college programs. I can't speak for all states, but I know it's like that in Texas and Louisiana, and I'd imagine it's like that in Florida and Georgia, and probably other states as well. The Southeastern Conference has all kinds of talent in its backyard because these school systems have developed these athletes already, and already introduced them to the passion of playing football competitively.

But I think the real reason why SEC country has become football country may just come down to coaching and recruiting. And it begins with the entrance of Nick Saban, who filled a big void at a time when Steve Spurrier was leaving the conference. When Spurrier coached, he was really the only great coach in the SEC. Saban became the next great coach, and like Spurrier, he saw the talent in his region and convinced them to stay home, which LSU had never been able to do before. He left and then went to Alabama and did the same thing, but not before making LSU an attractive place for coaches like Les Miles. Then you have another great coach and recruiter, Urban Meyer.

When a conference or a league or a division has one great sports coach and they build a winning program, suddenly, everyone else in that conference becomes obsessed with beating that program. That's what has happened over the past ten years, and because of the proximity of these programs to the football-rich south, what would have been maybe three or four years of strength has become three to five years of dominance, and nearly a decade of unparalleled strenght.

That will eventually change. And with Urban Meyer going to Ohio St. it might change a little sooner than people think. Or who knows...maybe Chip Kelly continues to build on his program and then he becomes the class of the coaching profession at the college level. And then suddenly you have everyone out West obsessed with beating him. The schools that play him would then have the advantage because their programs would know what it takes to defeat the likes of a three-time BCS champ like Oregon (hypothetical now, but possible in the future).

That's how things change. Right now, SEC is top dog. Probably will be until Saban and Les step down. I suspect they'll have an off year somewhere, but like the Big 12, Pac 12 and Big schools, they won't be down for long.
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Old 01-09-2012, 06:14 PM
 
5,507 posts, read 9,291,416 times
Reputation: 2289
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
Yes they will travel to the southeastern location where the game is.
The bigger programs will travel anywhere just like the big programs of the Big 10 and Big 12.

It sounds like your angling how the SEC doesn't travel far for out of conference games? Who needs to when your schedule is already the toughest in the nation most years.
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Old 01-09-2012, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,312 posts, read 26,335,336 times
Reputation: 11780
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
During the early 1980's, there was a recession in the United States. It was cyclical for most of the country, but structural in parts of the Northeast and the Midwest. Basically, "cyclical" means that any jobs lost would come back when the economy got better, and "structural" means that jobs were lost forever and never coming back. There's a big difference, but apparently it's too nuanced for some people.

The areas with cyclical job losses began to recover by the mid-1980's, but the areas with structural job losses did not begin to recover until the early 2000's, because of the fundamental economic identity change that took place. Many people, including many families, were forced to move from areas with structural job losses to areas with cyclical job losses to be guaranteed job opportunities once the economy got better, which directly benefited the South at the expense of the Northeast and Midwest.

During the 1980's and 1990's, there was a significant displacement of football talent from the Northeast and Midwest to the South with all the families moving away. All the displaced kids that were born from the mid-1980's onward who probably would have played Big Ten football had they stayed would play SEC or ACC football instead, and would help enhance the already fertile recruiting grounds in the South.

And I know you're asking why a structural economic collapse in the Northeast and Midwest in the early 1980's is so important. It's because football players born at that time would be of college age by the early 2000's, which is when the Big Ten's football quality began to markedly deteriorate. It did so because the talent stream got much smaller as an after-effect of the economic collapse, and since those economies that collapsed would not begin to recover until the early 2000's, the potential talent stream will remain a trickle until the early 2020's or so, when children born in the early 2000's reach college age.

None of this has to make any sense to you, and quite frankly, given the boastful nature of your reply to me, I don't expect it to, but the truth is, there are long-term residual effects in the aftermath of fundamental changes in demographic forces, and the stream of potential college football talent drying to a trickle in the Northeast and Midwest while turning into a deluge in the South is, believe it or not, one of those residual effects.



Are you denying that lots of families from the Northeast and Midwest moved to the South during the 1980's and 1990's?



The Big Ten was a high-quality football conference until about 10 years ago, which coincides with children born during the recession of the early 1980's reaching college age.



If you don't think that the SEC compares itself to the Big Ten, then you're fooling yourself.

First of all, the SEC compares itself to everybody. ("SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC!") In fact, after tonight's game, many students at the University of Kentucky will celebrate another BCS National Championship for the SEC, even though they and their favorite team had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Second of all, I moved with my family to an SEC college town in 1995. When the subject of conversation turned to college football, out came the snide "Big Ten country" remarks. And this was before the Big Ten fell off. I didn't provoke them either, and personally, I didn't care which conference Penn State was in, so it never occurred to me to compare college football conferences until "University of the SEC" fans did so.
This is laughable. I'm not going to flesh out a full theory here, so I'll stick with bullets:

1. Black people are generally the fastest people on earth (Usain Bolt, Carl Lewis, etc.).

2. Most blacks live in the South.

3. The modern football game favors fast teams (fast D-Ends, fast DBs and fast WRs). Knute Rockne "smash-mouth," Big 10-style football is a thing of the past. Today's game is guys with Deion Sanders-like speed jumping the route and taking it to the house for 6.

4. More blacks left the South for places like California and Michigan back in the day (Jackie Robinson, for example, was born in Alabama). Now that segregation is over, and the stigma of formerly super-racist schools fades away, black athletes are opting to stay at home and play for Bama and LSU rather than Penn State.

5. Also as mentioned above, there's a strong football culture in the South, and the schools there devote a significant amount of resources to their programs.

I think the SEC's success can be largely attributed to factors 1 -5 above.
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:40 PM
 
Location: The "Rock"
2,551 posts, read 2,419,007 times
Reputation: 1322
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
This is laughable. I'm not going to flesh out a full theory here, so I'll stick with bullets:

1. Black people are generally the fastest people on earth (Usain Bolt, Carl Lewis, etc.).

2. Most blacks live in the South.

3. The modern football game favors fast teams (fast D-Ends, fast DBs and fast WRs). Knute Rockne "smash-mouth," Big 10-style football is a thing of the past. Today's game is guys with Deion Sanders-like speed jumping the route and taking it to the house for 6.

4. More blacks left the South for places like California and Michigan back in the day (Jackie Robinson, for example, was born in Alabama). Now that segregation is over, and the stigma of formerly super-racist schools fades away, black athletes are opting to stay at home and play for Bama and LSU rather than Penn State.

5. Also as mentioned above, there's a strong football culture in the South, and the schools there devote a significant amount of resources to their programs.

I think the SEC's success can be largely attributed to factors 1 -5 above.
Great Post BajanYankee...

But Save your breathe... He obviously ignores anything based in reality. And needs to write a thesis on the economy. This is a football forum.
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