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Old 03-28-2012, 06:21 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,969 posts, read 6,584,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasomm View Post
Thanks edsg. I appreciate it.
The graphic is just an excel spreadsheet with a white background. I found this to be the best way to shift around conferences visually. Ive been following this stuff since 2005 when i finished Ohio State (bigten) and started my Geography MA at Uconn (bigeast) during the whole ACC-BigEast mess at the time. I did a project at the time involving shortest travel distance based conferences, not a serious consideration, but an interesting perspective.

Id push for the three mid-major football conferences to get spots in the tournement because you never know when a team like Navy, UCF, So.Miss, or even a FIU, plays over their head and go undefeated or something. Then they cry foul that they didnt get a chance to prove it was legit against the big teams. This way they have that chance, but you'll notice the first 4 seeds get home field. So either the cinderella is for real and upsets on the road, or the big team dispatches them like a cupcake, and essenily get a bi. No harm no foul.

As for the ACC im not sure what you mean. All i did was replace the departed Pitt with UConn. The rest is as it will be in 2014. I just realigned the divisions to have the old bigeast team together, and added the nearest (and Vatech familiar) Maryland and UVA to the bigeast-based division.

Fresno was the last, and toughest call for this chain of events. It basically came down to Fresno, Hawaii, and San Deigo St. I gave it to Fresno based on academics, research, and endowment size. Which is more important in the Pac12 and Big10 than typical conferences. But it really could be any of them. SD St would help out their basketball at this point actually.

Really though, the layout is not a raw restructuring, like most people through out there. Its more like im looking at what would happen if that 1 new rule where put in place. It starts with ND and Pitt, UConn fills Pitts spot, Bis12 takes two more big east schools, and the conference collapses. Independant BYU needs to make the same change as ND to a conference, Hou and SMU ask to join Big12 seeing 14 teams is the new standard, while the pac12 gets their 14th. MAC adds marshall before any of this happens (replacing Temple) but once the bigeast falls apart they snag Rutgers, Navy, and Army to try an legitimize the conference more, and takes back temple. They set the president for 18 team midmajor setup ( 0-1 inter-divisional regular season games) and the two others (WAC and SAC) form once the NCAA floats an 8 team playoff idea.

Sorry for the long exaination. But i got back there for anyone interested.
thanks for the explanation. did you consider, based on your interest in geography, making a map out of the data, too?

no, you didn't do anything to the ACC here that I had in question. The only question I had was the ability of the ACC to handle teams up and down the Atlantic seaboard from Miami to Boston. To me, that's a pretty heavy load. so the only area of disagreement I might have had with you was that you
include a dedicated conference for the northeast, be it Big East or a replacement. I understand the omission. Between Penn St being in the B10, WVU going to the B12 and the region's schools now in the ACC, there is a degree of slim pickings (Army, Navy, Rutgers, UConn....perhaps in the future UMass).

I like your 8 conference set up. I guess though I'd prefer if they were all major conferences. I think that could be built from today's structure. If we take the Big East, ACC, SEC, B10, B12, and Pac 12, we have six. That leaves only only region in the US not covered with its own conference:the Rockies. Give it a conference and you have 7. How to get 8? Split the B12 back into conferences serving the Great Plains and the southwest.

Here's a counter idea to yours (not better, mind you, only different). The number of teams in a conference would be 12. Perhaps they might consider playing an 11 game round robin and only having a conf championship game to break a tie at season's end.

I also took the liberty of shifting around some schools, admitted more than you did.

It might work out like this:

ACC: Miami, FSU, UCF, FAU, South Carolina, Clemson, Wake, UNC, Duke, NC St, Va, VT, Md(I rearranged the ACC and SEC the way they were once structured with the SC schools in the ACC and the Ga. schools in the SEC

SEC: LSU, Tulane, Miss, Miss St, Ala, Aub, Fla, Ga, GT, Tenn, Van, Ky
(this is the old 12 team SEC for much of the 20th century)

Big East: Army, Navy, Pitt, Penn St, Temple, Rut, Syr, UConn, BC, WVU, UMass, Buf
(PSU would have gone into an east coast conference if it had existed. Iím banking on a UMass rise that would have a relationship to UConnís earlier rise)

Big Dozen: Minn, Ia, Wis, Nw, Chi, Ill, Ind, Pur, ND, MSU, Mich, OSU (this one has the only flight of fantasy I gave myself: the Univ of Chicago. I did this because Iím a Chicago guy (city, not u) and I liked the idea of the founding B10 member Maroons resurrecting a major program in the conference they help found.

Midlands: Colorado, Colorado St, Nebraska, Ia St, Mo, Kan, K-St, Okl, Ok St, Cin,
Lívle, Mem (the sort of expansion the old B8 should have taken?)

SWC: Tex, A&M, TT, SMU, TCU, UTEP, Bay, Rice, Hou, Ark, N Tex, Tulsa

Rocky Mts: AF, UNM ,NM St, Wyo, Utah, USU, BYU, Nev, UNLV, Boise, Ida, SJ St,Haw
(smallest region of all; I had to fudge on this one by adding a few schools...Utah St, Ida, and NM St....that might not make the grade

Pac 12: WSU, Wash, Ore, Ore St, Cal, Stan, Fresno, UCLA, USC, SDSU,
Ariz, ASU
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:30 AM
 
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I've played around with ideas like that for years; blowing up the whole thing and reorganizing it geographically with many various permutations.

I just grew tired of playing with those ideas when I found that there was absolutely zero chance of a start-from-scratch approach ever being carried out. There is no authority anywhere for either the NCAA or the BCS or the US congress to implement a plan that manipulates everything.

So i started looking at who actually makes important decisions in realignment, and what factors influence or control those decisions... Basically, everyone wants the biggest TV deals and bowl game revenues possible for their conference, and the individual institutions want the largest slice of that pie possible. Those are the primary concerns of the conference commissioners, while continuing traditional rivalries, academic credibility, regional identity, etc. are subsidiary, but still minor influences exerted by individual school AD's and presidents. The NCAA it self has no control over anything, as it is just a collection of all the school presidents who really have no sense of what they should do in regards with sports, and no coordination anyway. That leaves the BCS who is a cabal of conference chairmen from a few conferences, ND, and influenced by Bowl chairmen. This is the best organized group with power, but the most corruptible (see Fiesta Bowl investigation).

So while the individual conferences are scrambling to rais their own status and revenues, the BCS is trying to do the same, but will eventually effect the conferences plans. The Big East has been bumbling around to save itself, but also to try and preserve their AQ status which is up to the BCS, for example. The BCS can make those decisions without any specific reason if they like, so long as the majority of that group agrees.

When it comes to the one rule I keep mentioning that would initiate the layout I designed, the main opponents would probably be Notre Dame themselves and the SEC commissioner. Notre Dame, because its basically kicking them out of the BCS group, saying they need to join a conferece. And The SEC because, if Notre Dame must join a conference it would most likely be the BigTen, and if they join the BigTen its TV network suddenly becomes even more enormous and powerful than it is now. And as I say at the top, TV deals/networks/etc is power.

The only hope is that the Pac12, ACC, Big12, see the formation of a 4 team playoff made up of only conference champions as a big enough money maker for them, and taking the SEC down a notch in bowl dominance (representation more than performance that is) to concede the BigTen network to uber power status.
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Old 03-28-2012, 10:22 AM
 
203 posts, read 278,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edsg25 View Post
Here's a counter idea to yours (not better, mind you, only different). The number of teams in a conference would be 12. Perhaps they might consider playing an 11 game round robin and only having a conf championship game to break a tie at season's end.

I also took the liberty of shifting around some schools, admitted more than you did.

It might work out like this:

ACC: Miami, FSU, UCF, FAU, South Carolina, Clemson, Wake, UNC, Duke, NC St, Va, VT, Md(I rearranged the ACC and SEC the way they were once structured with the SC schools in the ACC and the Ga. schools in the SEC

SEC: LSU, Tulane, Miss, Miss St, Ala, Aub, Fla, Ga, GT, Tenn, Van, Ky
(this is the old 12 team SEC for much of the 20th century)

Big East: Army, Navy, Pitt, Penn St, Temple, Rut, Syr, UConn, BC, WVU, UMass, Buf
(PSU would have gone into an east coast conference if it had existed. I’m banking on a UMass rise that would have a relationship to UConn’s earlier rise)

Big Dozen: Minn, Ia, Wis, Nw, Chi, Ill, Ind, Pur, ND, MSU, Mich, OSU (this one has the only flight of fantasy I gave myself: the Univ of Chicago. I did this because I’m a Chicago guy (city, not u) and I liked the idea of the founding B10 member Maroons resurrecting a major program in the conference they help found.

Midlands: Colorado, Colorado St, Nebraska, Ia St, Mo, Kan, K-St, Okl, Ok St, Cin,
L’vle, Mem (the sort of expansion the old B8 should have taken?)

SWC: Tex, A&M, TT, SMU, TCU, UTEP, Bay, Rice, Hou, Ark, N Tex, Tulsa

Rocky Mts: AF, UNM ,NM St, Wyo, Utah, USU, BYU, Nev, UNLV, Boise, Ida, SJ St,Haw
(smallest region of all; I had to fudge on this one by adding a few schools...Utah St, Ida, and NM St....that might not make the grade

Pac 12: WSU, Wash, Ore, Ore St, Cal, Stan, Fresno, UCLA, USC, SDSU,
Ariz, ASU
This looks more like a NCAA conference layout as it SHOULD HAVE been, more than, as it could be. If all the conference changes in the last 50+ years where made differently (correctly?) it actually could have looked something like this (sans Chicago, they quit football back in the 40's I think). If Penn State had picked the Big East over the Big Ten, and brought Army/Navy with them, that could have happened. VaTech and Miami wouldnt have joined the BE in the first place if that happened, probably would go straight to the ACC. I really like the way the Big8 expanded to form the Midlands, rather than joining the SWC.

If I may tweak a few spots in this alternate universe to what I think maybe have been more plausible in the circumstances, and if schools had an understanding that you never switched conferences once you reached an elite one (i.e. only upgraded conferences to better conferences) this is what could have happened....

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Old 03-28-2012, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Chicago
5,969 posts, read 6,584,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasomm View Post
This looks more like a NCAA conference layout as it SHOULD HAVE been, more than, as it could be. If all the conference changes in the last 50+ years where made differently (correctly?) it actually could have looked something like this (sans Chicago, they quit football back in the 40's I think). If Penn State had picked the Big East over the Big Ten, and brought Army/Navy with them, that could have happened. VaTech and Miami wouldnt have joined the BE in the first place if that happened, probably would go straight to the ACC. I really like the way the Big8 expanded to form the Midlands, rather than joining the SWC.

If I may tweak a few spots in this alternate universe to what I think maybe have been more plausible in the circumstances, and if schools had an understanding that you never switched conferences once you reached an elite one (i.e. only upgraded conferences to better conferences) this is what could have happened....
Yep: it all does begin with Penn State. Then it was take out your dominoes set......and watch them fall!
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Old 04-27-2012, 11:48 AM
 
203 posts, read 278,622 times
Reputation: 108
Here it comes.....
The Conference Commissioners have decided that AQ-Status no longer exists, and are considering having the new 4-team playoff format choose the 4 highest rated Conference Champions. If they take this option there will no longer be independent schools, and realignment mayhem will reignite....

ND to Big Ten would be imminent. Or they could go for the much less predictable/interesting option and ask to join the Ivy League.
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Old 05-01-2012, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Englewood, Near Eastside Indy
8,345 posts, read 14,136,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasomm View Post
Here it comes.....
The Conference Commissioners have decided that AQ-Status no longer exists, and are considering having the new 4-team playoff format choose the 4 highest rated Conference Champions. If they take this option there will no longer be independent schools, and realignment mayhem will reignite....

ND to Big Ten would be imminent. Or they could go for the much less predictable/interesting option and ask to join the Ivy League.
Or maybe the ACC will come knocking on their door again.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
8,412 posts, read 8,413,067 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic Toast View Post
Or maybe the ACC will come knocking on their door again.
Some Big Cigars from the Big12 have been talking with the Notre Damers for a couple years too.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:50 PM
 
Location: southwestern USA
1,816 posts, read 1,764,845 times
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As long as Notre Dame has a network throwing big dollars at it , than it is hard to envision them taking all their sports to a conference.

When they start winning consistently again, and they will, the price will go up and there will always be an nbc, espn, ect willing to pay major dollars for Notre Dame.

The point is, despite the naysayers, Notre Dame is still a major attraction all over this great country.The people at ND are in no hurry to align the football program to a conference-----and when they start winning consistently again, they will need many accountants and bean counters to keep tract of all the revenue flowing in.
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