ACC in for another bad year (Florida, university, programs, Big 12)

[Bass&Catfish2008]

Originally Posted by Libsk

Great post Bass! I can't wait for FOOTBALL my friend!

[Bass&Catfish2008]

Originally Posted by cry_havoc

Thank you!

We are glad to be in the Big XII!

Honestly, we were surprised, and honored to get into the Big XII. It is the best conference for WVU, except for the distances.

In the SEC we would have been middle of the pack, but in the Big XII we play in the second best football conference and have the potential to be a leader.

I apologize for Safak. This is not even about the conferences to them, but some Pitt vs WVU grudge they have going on. Perhaps they are upset that WVU ended the rivalry with wins and football and basketball.

West Virginia has landed in the right place. The Big XII is the home of spread offense and great QB's. You'll fit in great!

>>>>>
I apologize for Safak. This is not even about the conferences to them, but some Pitt vs WVU grudge they have going on. Perhaps they are upset that WVU ended the rivalry with wins and football and basketball.
<<<<<

Yeh. I think you could have showed him/her that it has been well documented that no other team other than Notre Dame would bring significantly more revenue into the Big XII. THAT is why FSU/Clemson didn't get in....the other teams (right or wrong) in the conference wanted to keep more of that revenue pie. Can't blame 'em.

Personally, I would have loved to have both FSU/Clemson and had an East/West division in the Big XII. Mainly, we would have gotten a STRONG foothold in the talent rich Southeast. They encroached on the Southwest by taking A&M, so we should be able to encroach on the Southeast and get into their territory. Recruiting would be off the charts for Oklahoma, especially, which already does a great job of getting top-notch talent in FL.

Also, I don't think the FSU/Clemson thing is totally off the table. I think they'll sit back and see how being left out of the Big 4 Table (PAC/B1G Rose Bowl, BigXII/SEC Champions) discussion will affect their ability to get into the national championship race. If the system orients itself totally towards the Big 4 then I could see Clemson/FSU (or even Virginia Tech) doing whatever they could to get into the BigXII. Plus, it is highly possible that the BigXII is simply waiting until the playoff system is instated to add Clemson/FSU.

I personally believe the BigXII will be at a great disadvantage by the voting forum/leadership that will determine who gets in the title game because it does not have a conference championship. It should be mandatory that the Big 4 Conferences have to have a title game. Oklahoma and Texas are counting that money right now, but what happens when the voters/powers-that-be keep them out of the title game for not having a conference championship? Ultimately, I think the BigXII will see that it is disadvantaged without at least twelve schools and two divisions and a conference championship like the other Big 3 Conferences. The BigXII will have to add somebody, at the very least two more teams to keep up with the Big Dogs. The BigXII hierarchy (read Oklahoma/Texas) may be holding out for Notre Dame. I just don't think it will happen. So don't sleep on Clemson/FSU. We could get 'em down the road.

[cry_havoc]

Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008

West Virginia has landed in the right place. The Big XII is the home of spread offense and great QB's. You'll fit in great!

>>>>>
I apologize for Safak. This is not even about the conferences to them, but some Pitt vs WVU grudge they have going on. Perhaps they are upset that WVU ended the rivalry with wins and football and basketball.
<<<<<

Yeh. I think you could have showed him/her that it has been well documented that no other team other than Notre Dame would bring significantly more revenue into the Big XII. THAT is why FSU/Clemson didn't get in....the other teams (right or wrong) in the conference wanted to keep more of that revenue pie. Can't blame 'em.

Personally, I would have loved to have both FSU/Clemson and had an East/West division in the Big XII. Mainly, we would have gotten a STRONG foothold in the talent rich Southeast. They encroached on the Southwest by taking A&M, so we should be able to encroach on the Southeast and get into their territory. Recruiting would be off the charts for Oklahoma, especially, which already does a great job of getting top-notch talent in FL.

Also, I don't think the FSU/Clemson thing is totally off the table. I think they'll sit back and see how being left out of the Big 4 Table (PAC/B1G Rose Bowl, BigXII/SEC Champions) discussion will affect their ability to get into the national championship race. If the system orients itself totally towards the Big 4 then I could see Clemson/FSU (or even Virginia Tech) doing whatever they could to get into the BigXII. Plus, it is highly possible that the BigXII is simply waiting until the playoff system is instated to add Clemson/FSU.

I personally believe the BigXII will be at a great disadvantage by the voting forum/leadership that will determine who gets in the title game because it does not have a conference championship. It should be mandatory that the Big 4 Conferences have to have a title game. Oklahoma and Texas are counting that money right now, but what happens when the voters/powers-that-be keep them out of the title game for not having a conference championship? Ultimately, I think the BigXII will see that it is disadvantaged without at least twelve schools and two divisions and a conference championship like the other Big 3 Conferences. The BigXII will have to add somebody, at the very least two more teams to keep up with the Big Dogs. The BigXII hierarchy (read Oklahoma/Texas) may be holding out for Notre Dame. I just don't think it will happen. So don't sleep on Clemson/FSU. We could get 'em down the road.

I think in the long run FSU could become a good football program again in the Big 12, and generate more revenue for the conference, but in the short run it would add nothing and decrease the revenue.

I agree that the Big XII could pick them up later, and my guess is they wanted to wait and see how the playoff system turns out before expanding. What is the rush to expand? If the Big 12 is doing good at 10 than it is best to stay at 10 instead of expanding for the sake of expansion. Expansion sure didnt help the ACC out. If the Big 12 needs to expand to make it in the playoff or finds expansion beneficial it can have its pick of teams from irrelevant conferences like the ACC and Big E.

Right now the Big 12 seems to be exclusively courting ND. I honestly dont think ND is a good fit for the conference, but I do see the benefits of having them. Apparently the freedom and flexibility of the Big 12 makes the conference the most appealing of the 4 good football conferences.

Besides ND, FSU does make a good fit. Another team I would like to see added, is Lville. They arent great in football or a huge market, but for personal reasons I would like to see them. I doubt they will get in. Clemson could work I guess, but they are not a great addition. VT would be good to get, but we might have to fight the SEC for them since they are the only good team in the ACC. Schools like Pitt, UMD, BC, and Miami are probably never going to get into one of the 4 real conferences.

[NJ2MDdude]

Originally Posted by BevoLJ

@ NJ2MDdude - You make it pretty hard to take your opinion serious. I'll agree that this year no ACC schools will be going to the Big 12. But fact is many of them have been doing research and holding meetings and discussions on it. To completely remove the idea that there is even a possibility of it happening says to me you aren't capable of an objective or logical view. I understand having loyalties and wanting to see your conference succeed. But to refuse even the possibility... just seems excessive.

As for looking west... who? Prior to Nienas stabilizing the Big 12 and getting the schools to sign over their rights, I could see it. But not anymore. At 10 teams we get to keep a lot of our money. It doesn't get diluted. Also at 10 teams we have a round robin conference schedule. Which is pretty awesome! The only draw back to the round robin for us Longhorns is that we have to play Kansas State every year. So are pretty much guaranteed at least one loss. lol.

The ACC is one of the storied collegiate conferences. It has existed for nearly 60 years, with only one school leaving. The member schools share a cultural and geographic relationship, standing for academic excellence, especially student-athlete success, and competition and camaraderie. Just last year, the US News and World Report Top College List named the ACC as the top BCS conference in academic ranking, placing seven schools in the top 40.

The addition of Syracuse and Pittsburgh further cements the ACC's academic reputation. Both schools also strengthen the ACC's hold in the northeast, giving Boston College much needed geographic rivals and the ACC control of nearly all of the media markets along the east coast, from Boston to Miami. Although both schools are known today for b-ball, they also have strong football traditions, which will serve the ACC well.

Given what I wrote above, it would be difficult for any ACC member to pull out of the conference. The potential long term benefits are too great. The ACC's football product may be inferior at this time, but football is not a static sport. Both Miami and FSU will return to prominence, perhaps along with Syracuse and Pitt or any other cobination of ACC schools.

The Big 12, otoh, is academically and geographically incompatible. UT is the only Big 12 school represented in the top 50 school per the US News and World Report Top College List. Contrary to the vocal complaints of a few trustees, ADs and prominent alumni, University administrators don't want their schools going to a "lesser" conference. Their situation is stable, if not good. And no one wants to become the next South Carolina. Sure the Big 12 may offer more money, but the travel costs of non-revenue sports will eat away the profit. Recruiting will also suffer. For example, Penn State's football program has been in decline after it joined B1G.

Revenue sharing is also an issue. No one likes UT's financial arrangement. That's why the door wasn't open for UT at the PAC 12, B1G and even the ACC. I'm sure the other Big 12 schools don't like the arrangement, but they have no choice but to accept it. But if B1G were to expand, I'm sure UK, KSU and ISU will all publicly lobby for admission, like Missouri. That's why I think the Big 12 is unstable.

I think the Big 12 should invite Boise State, BYU, Colorado State (or US Air Force Academy) and New Mexico. In the east, it could add Louisville and Cincinnati. That would give the Big 12 16, plenty of schools for UT, OU and OSU to pounce on, which is what those 3 schools really want.

[TVofM]

Maryland letting James Franklin walk.

The day it became painfully obvious?

Nov. 26, 2011
Vanderbilt (Coach Franklin's new team) @ Wake Forest
final score: Vandy 41 - Wake 7

Ouch!!

[Mr. GE]

Originally Posted by NJ2MDdude

The ACC is one of the storied collegiate conferences. It has existed for nearly 60 years, with only one school leaving. The member schools share a cultural and geographic relationship, standing for academic excellence, especially student-athlete success, and competition and camaraderie. Just last year, the US News and World Report Top College List named the ACC as the top BCS conference in academic ranking, placing seven schools in the top 40.

The addition of Syracuse and Pittsburgh further cements the ACC's academic reputation. Both schools also strengthen the ACC's hold in the northeast, giving Boston College much needed geographic rivals and the ACC control of nearly all of the media markets along the east coast, from Boston to Miami. Although both schools are known today for b-ball, they also have strong football traditions, which will serve the ACC well.

Given what I wrote above, it would be difficult for any ACC member to pull out of the conference. The potential long term benefits are too great. The ACC's football product may be inferior at this time, but football is not a static sport. Both Miami and FSU will return to prominence, perhaps along with Syracuse and Pitt or any other cobination of ACC schools.

The Big 12, otoh, is academically and geographically incompatible. UT is the only Big 12 school represented in the top 50 school per the US News and World Report Top College List. Contrary to the vocal complaints of a few trustees, ADs and prominent alumni, University administrators don't want their schools going to a "lesser" conference. Their situation is stable, if not good. And no one wants to become the next South Carolina. Sure the Big 12 may offer more money, but the travel costs of non-revenue sports will eat away the profit. Recruiting will also suffer. For example, Penn State's football program has been in decline after it joined B1G.

Revenue sharing is also an issue. No one likes UT's financial arrangement. That's why the door wasn't open for UT at the PAC 12, B1G and even the ACC. I'm sure the other Big 12 schools don't like the arrangement, but they have no choice but to accept it. But if B1G were to expand, I'm sure UK, KSU and ISU will all publicly lobby for admission, like Missouri. That's why I think the Big 12 is unstable.

I think the Big 12 should invite Boise State, BYU, Colorado State (or US Air Force Academy) and New Mexico. In the east, it could add Louisville and Cincinnati. That would give the Big 12 16, plenty of schools for UT, OU and OSU to pounce on, which is what those 3 schools really want.

Good post...

I will ask that you clarify or elaborate on the one sentence in bold though...

[NJ2MDdude]

Originally Posted by TVofM

Maryland letting James Franklin walk.

The day it became painfully obvious?

Nov. 26, 2011
Vanderbilt (Coach Franklin's new team) @ Wake Forest
final score: Vandy 41 - Wake 7

Ouch!!

Many old time MD alumni are suspicous of unknown Black coaches, choosing to believe their hire was done for "political" purposes or imposed on the school by outsiders, like the time John Thompson "hired" Bob Wade as the MD head b-ball coach.

[NJ2MDdude]

Originally Posted by Mr. GE

Good post...

I will ask that you clarify or elaborate on the one sentence in bold though...

At one time South Carolina had one of elite b-ball programs in the country, ranking equally with the likes of North Carolina. The rivalries within the ACC were pretty intense back then. South Carolina was coached by Frank McGuire, a NYC native who recruited players from his hometown. Many of his recruits failed to meet minimum ACC academic standards. South Carolina didn't like the academic standards and hated even more the referees, claiming that the conference favored the Carolina schools.

So in 1971 South Carolina went independent. The move was a disaster. Their B-ball program has never recovered. With respect to football, Clemson became the top dog in South Carolina. And I'm sure the school and its administrators lost some respect within academic circles and among prospective recruits.

At one time or another, every ACC school outside of North Carolina has complained about the undue influence the Tobacco Road schools have over the conference. But what's the alternative? The Big 12? FSU/Miami won't play 3rd fiddle to UT (and its financial arrangement) and the Okie schools when they're bass among minnows in the ACC.

I will admit, though, if the SEC invited FSU/Miami, then those two schools would most likely change conferences. FSU/Miami, like the SEC schools, play with gusto and aren't afraid of competition weekend after weekend. That's the SEC way, which, btw, I do envy.

[cry_havoc]

Originally Posted by NJ2MDdude

The ACC is one of the storied collegiate conferences. It has existed for nearly 60 years, with only one school leaving. The member schools share a cultural and geographic relationship, standing for academic excellence, especially student-athlete success, and competition and camaraderie. Just last year, the US News and World Report Top College List named the ACC as the top BCS conference in academic ranking, placing seven schools in the top 40.

The addition of Syracuse and Pittsburgh further cements the ACC's academic reputation. Both schools also strengthen the ACC's hold in the northeast, giving Boston College much needed geographic rivals and the ACC control of nearly all of the media markets along the east coast, from Boston to Miami. Although both schools are known today for b-ball, they also have strong football traditions, which will serve the ACC well.

Given what I wrote above, it would be difficult for any ACC member to pull out of the conference. The potential long term benefits are too great. The ACC's football product may be inferior at this time, but football is not a static sport. Both Miami and FSU will return to prominence, perhaps along with Syracuse and Pitt or any other cobination of ACC schools.

The Big 12, otoh, is academically and geographically incompatible. UT is the only Big 12 school represented in the top 50 school per the US News and World Report Top College List. Contrary to the vocal complaints of a few trustees, ADs and prominent alumni, University administrators don't want their schools going to a "lesser" conference. Their situation is stable, if not good. And no one wants to become the next South Carolina. Sure the Big 12 may offer more money, but the travel costs of non-revenue sports will eat away the profit. Recruiting will also suffer. For example, Penn State's football program has been in decline after it joined B1G.

Revenue sharing is also an issue. No one likes UT's financial arrangement. That's why the door wasn't open for UT at the PAC 12, B1G and even the ACC. I'm sure the other Big 12 schools don't like the arrangement, but they have no choice but to accept it. But if B1G were to expand, I'm sure UK, KSU and ISU will all publicly lobby for admission, like Missouri. That's why I think the Big 12 is unstable.

I think the Big 12 should invite Boise State, BYU, Colorado State (or US Air Force Academy) and New Mexico. In the east, it could add Louisville and Cincinnati. That would give the Big 12 16, plenty of schools for UT, OU and OSU to pounce on, which is what those 3 schools really want.

The problem is FSU & Clemson did try to leave ACC, but were unable to get out. So in one regard you are right, it is difficult for them to leave since at the moment none of the better conferences will take them.

I know the ACC is proud of its academics, but these are sports conferences. Academics are just some secondary factor. These conferences are not important to the academics of the schools, and the schools can easily make partnerships with each other, even if they are not in the same conference. The academic performance of a school is not going to effected by realignment.

It is easy to say the ACC will return to football prominence, but much harder to do. The ACC has sucked in football, and things are about to get MUCH worse for Miami. So it is possible, but it is also possible that Conference USA will become the best football conference and the SEC will become the worst. Perhaps Rutgers will become the best football team and win the national championship every year for 50 straight years. All of these things are unlikely. Also, Pitt and Syracuse add nothing to ACC football, although Syracuse does improve the basketball.

As for revenue you have no argument there. The ACC makes less than the 4 real football conferences. The ACC schools were really unhappy by the recent agreement, and it was a big factor in FSU and Clemson trying to leave. Not only do they get much less than other conferences, but they also lose their tier 3 revenue.

UT and OU want schools that will generate more revenue for everyone in the conference, and improve the football. If they wanted more schools to pounce on they would have let FSU & Clemson into the Big 12. Instead they are trying to make a conference that will dominate in football, and bring home the $$$.

[TVofM]

Originally Posted by NJ2MDdude

Many old time MD alumni are suspicous of unknown Black coaches, choosing to believe their hire was done for "political" purposes or imposed on the school by outsiders, like the time John Thompson "hired" Bob Wade as the MD head b-ball coach.

Franklin already had it in his contract that when Ralph F. stepped down, he was automatically the new UM head coach. (and Maryland indeed had to pay Franklin a million dollar penalty when they hired the other guy, didn't they? - beside the buyer's remorse they are now going through over the choice they made)

If Vandy goes to a bowl game again this year and Maryland has another crappy losing season...