U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > College Football
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 12-17-2013, 05:48 AM
 
6,349 posts, read 8,397,696 times
Reputation: 1769

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAM88 View Post
So what would you consider Duke and Clemson? Both are pretty solid teams, one of which is playing in a BCS bowl game.
Neither of them have played anyone good. They are ranked off a weak schedule. That is the inherent problem with college football. In the NFL, or college basketball, a team plays pretty much every team but in College football a team can be ranked by not playing anyone good, except the team in its own conference. For a conference like the SEC where there is a lot of good teams the system works, but for weaker conferences an inferior team could be ranked MUCH higher than better teams due to a weak schedule.

Duke im not even remotely impressed with. I congratulate them on a good season and they did good for their conference but in the scheme of things they havent beaten one impressive team so far. Even Clemson gets some respect for last years BCS, although this year they havent beaten one good team.

 
Old 12-17-2013, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,263,727 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
I'd say the above is unclear and speculative at best.
You could say that about any game that's not actually played. I mean, would your beloved Crimson Tide beat the Buckeyes this year? It's "unclear and speculative at best" but nobody beyond contrarians on internet forums would bet on Ohio State in that matchup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
We can think what we want, but the SEC hasn't really established much dominance over the ACC since the Georgia and Georgia Tech game at the end of the 2012 season. Since then, Clemson defeated LSU in the Chick-Fil-A bowl and then defeated Georgia in the season opener. FSU defeated Florida, though that's obviously a suspect win. South Carolina defeated Clemson, but they proved to be one of the better teams in the SEC this year, and it didn't really get out of reach for Clemson until the final quarter (IIRC). So while the SEC has managed some success against the ACC, I don't think they've established that they're the dominant league by any means.
I'm not focused on the results of a single game. I'm focused on the likelihood of staying undefeated in a vastly superior football conference. It's tougher going undefeated in the SEC than it is in the ACC. It would be like playing Wimbledon and facing Rafael Nadal, Novak Djokovic, Roger Federer and Andy Murray all in the same week. Sure, you can say, "Well, Dominic Hrbaty beat Andy Murray the last time they played so you can't say facing the world's Top 4 would be tougher," but that's clearly non-sense. If FSU played in the SEC, it would be significantly tougher to go undefeated every year, and I think Bobby Bowden even stated so much on the record.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
On that note, Auburn hasn't established that it's a dominant team. It has definitely established that it has one hell of a great offense that overpowers teams on the run and at the line of scrimmage and then has the ability to stretch the field once teams become overly concerned with Auburn's running attack. But it hasn't established the ability to control both sides of the ball. FSU, on the other hand, has simply dominated every team they've played. Clemson also has had the tendency to put the ball on the ground just a little bit more than FSU, so that could be a factor as well.
You don't think Auburn would dominate Duke, Miami, NC State, Wake Forest, Maryland, Idaho, Bethune-Cookman, Syracuse, Boston College and Florida (sorry this year). The strongest program FSU played was Clemson, which has had a notoroiusly horrendous defense. What makes you think Auburn, who defeated your Crimson Tide, wouldn't equally punish Clemson?

FSU is a team with SEC-caliber athletes that plays in a weak football conference.
 
Old 12-17-2013, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,263,727 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by cry_havoc View Post
Neither of them have played anyone good. They are ranked off a weak schedule. That is the inherent problem with college football. In the NFL, or college basketball, a team plays pretty much every team but in College football a team can be ranked by not playing anyone good, except the team in its own conference. For a conference like the SEC where there is a lot of good teams the system works, but for weaker conferences an inferior team could be ranked MUCH higher than better teams due to a weak schedule.
I completely agree. That's why I've never been a big fan of CFB. You can get these dynasties where a guy like Saban recruits most of the blue chip players and fields Top 3-5 teams year after year after year. And you have these juggernauts like Ohio State beating down the Florida A&M Rattlers. In the NFL, there's more athletic parity, so a team's fortunes really depend more on attitude, discipline and luck more than talent disparity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cry_havoc View Post
Duke im not even remotely impressed with. I congratulate them on a good season and they did good for their conference but in the scheme of things they havent beaten one impressive team so far. Even Clemson gets some respect for last years BCS, although this year they havent beaten one good team.
Agreed.
 
Old 12-17-2013, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Chicago
38,690 posts, read 89,243,749 times
Reputation: 29451
Yap yap yap yap...

Let's face it, FSU's gonna own.
 
Old 12-17-2013, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Arizona!
667 posts, read 1,084,276 times
Reputation: 1057
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post


You don't think Auburn would dominate Duke, Miami, NC State, Wake Forest, Maryland, Idaho, Bethune-Cookman, Syracuse, Boston College and Florida (sorry this year).
I think they would certainly dominate some of them, especially the likes of Idaho, Bethune, etc., just like they dominated the scrubs they played (Fla Atl, Western Carolina, AR State). I don't think they would dominate all those other teams the way FSU did.

The majority of Auburn's wins were by less than 10 points, and that includes games against some pretty mediocre teams. Maybe that's a case where Auburn just played down to the level of the competition?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
The strongest program FSU played was Clemson, which has had a notoroiusly horrendous defense. What makes you think Auburn, who defeated your Crimson Tide, wouldn't equally punish Clemson?
Since Auburn and Clemson have a common opponent in Georgia, a decent team, in which they both won narrowly, and by similar scores, we have *some* metric to say that they are on a par with one another. FSU beat Clemson by 37, in their house. Maybe Auburn could equally punish Clemson by 5 touchdowns... but I doubt it. Heck, Clemson lost the turnover battle against a pretty darned good SC team 6-0 and still only lost that game by 14 points. I am highly skeptical that Auburn would beat Clemson by 5 TD's. I'm not convinced Auburn would even win that game.
 
Old 12-17-2013, 07:33 PM
 
4,749 posts, read 3,611,198 times
Reputation: 3225
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
You could say that about any game that's not actually played. I mean, would your beloved Crimson Tide beat the Buckeyes this year? It's "unclear and speculative at best" but nobody beyond contrarians on internet forums would bet on Ohio State in that matchup.
Alabama under Nick Saban (the current coach) has an outstanding track record of success, and many of the players on the current Alabama team have been a part of that success. What Alabama as an individual team has accomplished under Nick Saban in recent years is greater than the sum of what Ohio State has accomplished under Urban Meyer in that same span of time. So there's a valid reason to favor Alabama in a hypothetical match-up. But Nick Saban's Crimson Tide aren't playing Urban Meyer's Buckeyes - it's Auburn against FSU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I'm not focused on the results of a single game. I'm focused on the likelihood of staying undefeated in a vastly superior football conference. It's tougher going undefeated in the SEC than it is in the ACC. It would be like playing Wimbledon and facing Rafael Nadal, Novak Djokovic, Roger Federer and Andy Murray all in the same week. Sure, you can say, "Well, Dominic Hrbaty beat Andy Murray the last time they played so you can't say facing the world's Top 4 would be tougher," but that's clearly non-sense. If FSU played in the SEC, it would be significantly tougher to go undefeated every year, and I think Bobby Bowden even stated so much on the record.
I'm not saying it isn't harder to go undefeated in the SEC -- it clearly is. But Clemson beat LSU last year and beat Georgia this year, and while neither team is quite what it has been in previous years, Clemson is far from the team that everyone thought they would eventually become, and yet they were good enough to compete with those programs. They fell to South Carolina, a team that was predicted to accomplish a lot this year, and a team that was arguably the best out of the SEC East. Even so, that game was tied going into the final 15 minutes before Carolina finally put them away for good. By comparison, FSU scored a Mike Tyson first or second round KO of Clemson.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
You don't think Auburn would dominate Duke, Miami, NC State, Wake Forest, Maryland, Idaho, Bethune-Cookman, Syracuse, Boston College and Florida (sorry this year). The strongest program FSU played was Clemson, which has had a notoroiusly horrendous defense. What makes you think Auburn, who defeated your Crimson Tide, wouldn't equally punish Clemson?
They're not my Crimson Tide, for the record. I'm an LSU Tiger fan -- my beloved purple n gold defeated the paper tigers of Auburn.

That out of the way, there's every reason to question whether or not Auburn would dominate anyone, because they actually got clobbered in one game earlier in the year, and they narrowly escaped defeat in two others. One of those miracle victories came against Georgia, a team that Clemson controlled for most of an entire game. So yeah, there's every reason to wonder whether Auburn could dominate anyone. Clearly, Auburn's got a lot of heart and character, and I think they'll have an edge if the game's tight in the final five minutes. But Auburn's got a lot of questions right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
FSU is a team with SEC-caliber athletes that plays in a weak football conference.
FSU's got the athletes, and they've got the coaching, too. People are naturally going to question FSU's schedule, but it reminds me of what people said about Mike Tyson in early 1986. "Who's this guy fought?" Sometimes, an athlete or a team can rack up wins against sparring partners, but sometimes, Mike Tyson really is Mike Tyson.


Mike Tyson vs Trevor Berbick KO - YouTube
 
Old 12-18-2013, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,263,727 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zathras View Post
I think they would certainly dominate some of them, especially the likes of Idaho, Bethune, etc., just like they dominated the scrubs they played (Fla Atl, Western Carolina, AR State). I don't think they would dominate all those other teams the way FSU did.
Nearly every team FSU played was scrubbish. You listed three teams (and all college football programs play weak teams, which is a reason I don't like CFB as much as the NFL). But nearly all of FSU's teams were lousy. Again...

Clemson (12)
Boston College
Maryland
N.C. State
Wake Forest
Syracuse
Duke (24)
Miami

That's a considerably easier schedule than...

LSU (16)
Texas A&M (21)
Georgia (22)
Alabama (3)
Missouri (8)
Tennessee
Ole Miss
Arkansas

Plus they had to play (and defeated) the No. 1 team and defending champion. The quality of competition was not even close.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zathras View Post
The majority of Auburn's wins were by less than 10 points
This is just lazy on your part. I don't even follow CFB like that and I least looked it up. Auburn had two TD margins or greater in half of its wins. So how is it that "the majority" of its wins were by less than 10 points?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zathras View Post
and that includes games against some pretty mediocre teams. Maybe that's a case where Auburn just played down to the level of the competition?
Such as? The only team I can say Auburn should have pounded was Ole Miss. The other wins were tight because they were playing, well, Alabama, Texas A&M, Georgia, etc. These are teams that are ranked and going to Bowl games. Substitute Clemson for Alabama, Duke for Missouri, Miami for LSU, Texas A&M for Wake Forest, and N.C. State for Georgia and I'd bet good money that Auburn would be undefeated too.
 
Old 12-18-2013, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,263,727 times
Reputation: 11726
So is anyone going to make a prediction?

I actually like the Noles (meaning I liked their teams back in the 90s). The only prediction I'll make is that the game will go down to the wire.
 
Old 12-18-2013, 10:24 AM
 
Location: The "Rock"
2,551 posts, read 2,415,209 times
Reputation: 1322
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
So is anyone going to make a prediction?

I actually like the Noles (meaning I liked their teams back in the 90s). The only prediction I'll make is that the game will go down to the wire.
I got FSU in a blowout...
 
Old 12-18-2013, 10:25 AM
 
3,723 posts, read 3,883,415 times
Reputation: 2779
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
So is anyone going to make a prediction?

I actually like the Noles (meaning I liked their teams back in the 90s). The only prediction I'll make is that the game will go down to the wire.
Florida State 34 - Auburn 20

I may be wrong, but I do not believe Auburn will be able to keep up with the Seminole offense. Missouri was able to move the ball at will for large stretches of the SEC title game and Florida State has a better offense than Missouri.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > College Football
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top