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Old 01-06-2014, 05:22 PM
 
467 posts, read 458,570 times
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Nothing is worse than watching a game when one team basicallly wins b/c of fumbles by the other team. I don't see why an offense dropping the ball should be punished with a turnover given there are only so many possessions in a football game. In the CLemson SC game this year there were two fumbles on punt returns which basically gave the game to SC and the punt returner isn't even playing the majority of the game. There was another fumble by the QB of CLemson when he was ganged up on by 3 SC players with them hacking at his hands and he couldn't get down easily b/c another SC player was in front of him on the field.

I'd be ok with the fumble resulting from a sack on the quarterback but running backs and wide receivers are going to cough it up sometimes when they take hard hits. To me allowing this to be a turnover would be like allowing basketball players to get the ball back after they hack the player they are guarding to steal the ball away.
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Old 01-06-2014, 05:24 PM
 
6,349 posts, read 8,406,634 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis. View Post
Nothing is worse than watching a game when one team basicallly wins b/c of fumbles by the other team. I don't see why an offense dropping the ball should be punished with a turnover given there are only so many possessions in a football game. In the CLemson SC game this year there were two fumbles on punt returns which basically gave the game to SC and the punt returner isn't even playing the majority of the game. There was another fumble by the QB of CLemson when he was ganged up on by 3 SC players with them hacking at his hands and he couldn't get down easily b/c another SC player was in front of him on the field.

I'd be ok with the fumble resulting from a sack on the quarterback but running backs and wide receivers are going to cough it up sometimes when they take hard hits. To me allowing this to be a turnover would be like allowing basketball players to get the ball back after they hack the player they are guarding to steal the ball away.
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Old 01-06-2014, 05:34 PM
 
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Just stay on the WV forum if you can't discuss the idea like an adult. There is nothing wrong with the idea, people would still watch and I think it would take the luck factor out of the game.
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Old 01-06-2014, 05:39 PM
 
293 posts, read 377,737 times
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Horrible idea. Nothing lucky about forcing turnovers. The game would die a quick death if you started handing out mulligans.
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Old 01-06-2014, 05:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Bane1976 View Post
Horrible idea. Nothing lucky about forcing turnovers. The game would die a quick death if you started handing out mulligans.
not all turnovers are forced, some are just drops. More "forced" ones are fortunate hits that jar the bar loose. Fumbles often let a defense off the hook when an offense has been moving the ball on them, and you still defensive players slapping at the ball out of desperation b/c they out of position to stop the player's foward progress.

There are at least 6 different types of fumbles so we wouldn't have to eliminate them all. I have no problem with the sack fumble b/c it is more similar to an interception.
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Old 01-06-2014, 05:46 PM
 
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Or a team could just hang onto the ball

Losing the ball on a fumble in football is just like losing the ball on a bad pass or dribbling the ball off your foot out of bounds in basketball ........... it's a turnover

There are just a lot more possession and a lot more tolerance for turnovers in basketball

This year in the NFL the average number of drives per team per game was 11.625 - average points per drive is 1.86 which makes the average number of points 21.6 .......... so if you lose the turnover game by a 2 that has a huge swing on the game ....... it ends 2 of your drives and provides 2 drives to your opponent

Last year in the NBA each team had between 91 and 99 posessions per game ......... so roughly 1 turnover in the NFL would be worth about 8 turnovers in the NBA

Most teams in the NBA turn the ball over between 12% and 15% of their possessions or around - so they would average around 1.5 NFL turnovers per game

In many games the margins are pretty equal and the turnover impact is somewhat muted ... however, in both sports if you win the turnover battle by 2 in the NFL or by 16 in the NBA it's going to work in your benefit

Teams should be rewarded for executing a play and teams shouldn't be rewarded for failing to execute the play
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Old 01-06-2014, 05:51 PM
 
467 posts, read 458,570 times
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Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
Or a team could just hang onto the ball

Losing the ball on a fumble in football is just like losing the ball on a bad pass or dribbling the ball off your foot out of bounds in basketball ........... it's a turnover

There are just a lot more possession and a lot more tolerance for turnovers in basketball

This year in the NFL the average number of drives per team per game was 11.625 - average points per drive is 1.86 which makes the average number of points 21.6 .......... so if you lose the turnover game by a 2 that has a huge swing on the game ....... it ends 2 of your drives and provides 2 drives to your opponent

Last year in the NBA each team had between 91 and 99 posessions per game ......... so roughly 1 turnover in the NFL would be worth about 8 turnovers in the NBA

Most teams in the NBA turn the ball over between 12% and 15% of their possessions or around - so they would average around 1.5 NFL turnovers per game

In many games the margins are pretty equal and the turnover impact is somewhat muted ... however, in both sports if you win the turnover battle by 2 in the NFL or by 16 in the NBA it's going to work in your benefit

Teams should be rewarded for executing a play and teams shouldn't be rewarded for failing to execute the play
ok well your last point really isn't one, you just saying "it is the rule now so it must be the rule forever", basically

my point is that given the limited number of possesions in football games, the threshold for a turnover needs to be greater than just some dude on offense dropped the ball. it also isn't realistic to expect players to hang onto the ball at all times when they are getting hit hard. the defense is already rewarded if they force a fumble b/c it stops foward progress, fumble turnovers don't seem proper punishment for the "crime" of dropping the ball.

If there were more football games in a season this wuldn't be such a big deal but it sucks when turnovers affect the outcome of big game.
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Old 01-06-2014, 05:51 PM
 
293 posts, read 377,737 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis. View Post
not all turnovers are forced, some are just drops. More "forced" ones are fortunate hits that jar the bar loose. Fumbles often let a defense off the hook when an offense has been moving the ball on them, and you still defensive players slapping at the ball out of desperation b/c they out of position to stop the player's foward progress.

There are at least 6 different types of fumbles so we wouldn't have to eliminate them all. I have no problem with the sack fumble b/c it is more similar to an interception.
A dropped ball is not a turnover. It's a dropped ball. 6 different types of fumbles? Like what?

A fumble is a fumble. Who cares how the ball comes out.
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Old 01-06-2014, 05:54 PM
 
467 posts, read 458,570 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bane1976 View Post
A dropped ball is not a turnover. It's a dropped ball. 6 different types of fumbles? Like what?

A fumble is a fumble. Who cares how the ball comes out.
lol it is funny how football fans are opposed to this or really any change to the game.

I'm kind of surpised they haven't looked at this, given all the concern over player safety tehse days b/c it is forcing a fumble that leads to these defensive players trying to take players out to get them to cough it up.

just from a entertainment standpoint for spectactors the games would be more fun without fumble luck which is random luck deciding games. Also people wouldn't be able to say their team would have won if not for all the fumbles and bad luck.
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Old 01-06-2014, 05:57 PM
 
6,349 posts, read 8,406,634 times
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Originally Posted by Francis. View Post
Just stay on the WV forum if you can't discuss the idea like an adult. There is nothing wrong with the idea, people would still watch and I think it would take the luck factor out of the game.
Do I know you? I dont remember you as a regular from the WV forum. It appears you joined CD recently by your date.

BTW, other people thought your idea was really stupid too. Nothing against you but your idea was really really bad. Nobody wants it.

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