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Old 03-10-2014, 07:01 PM
 
4,399 posts, read 9,121,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Thanks for not paying attention to logic here. And, actually, I do not think a college football coach should be paid $4,000,000.

No bitterness at all, by the way. I'm just posing what should be a legitimate question. Should colleges be in the business of supporting semi-pro football leagues, even when a large proportion of them actually lose money for the school even now? As it stands, college football attendance is dropping, yet guys like you propose doubling down by driving universities even further in the hole. Right. As if that makes any sense at all.
If colleges cannot afford to pay players or have an aversion to it, then they can simply not pay them and give them the standard college scholarship. So if they want to be in the business than they can be in the business and if they don't than they don't have to be.
Colleges should be able to choose to spend money on a player just as they choose to spend to pay nick saban 5.5 million dollars. And I'm sorry you complaining that paying a college player 20-30k will bankrupt all these schools, while they pay their coach millions and their coordinators hundreds of thousands is kind of funny.
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Old 03-11-2014, 05:49 AM
 
21,329 posts, read 30,700,975 times
Reputation: 19874
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post

And this business of college being the bread winners is baloney. College football is a losing proposition for almost half of the 120 FBS schools. College athletics programs are a losing proposition for all but 14 of the FBS schools. Paying the players would reduce that number even further, and drive a good deal of them out the athletics altogether.

I'm sorry. But those who support paying college athletes simply haven't thought it through.
Absolutely spot on. What do we suppose happens to the FBS schools that don't have jillions of dollars to participate in the spend-a-thon involved in paying college athletes? Schools like Alabama, Florida and Notre Dame will survive but how about those that aren't guaranteed TV coverage every Saturday during football season? The NCAA is an association of college sports programs with student-athletes and was never meant to be a for-profit endeavor. The point is to stay in school and get an education which tends to be the guiding premise behind going to college.
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:06 AM
 
462 posts, read 337,617 times
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I see a lot of people who are on the side of not paying college athletes believe in fairy tales.

Go Google Walter Byers. Look up the the history of the athletic scholarship and why it was implemented. Research why the term student-athlete was created.
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Old 03-11-2014, 10:13 AM
 
4,399 posts, read 9,121,464 times
Reputation: 2352
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
Absolutely spot on. What do we suppose happens to the FBS schools that don't have jillions of dollars to participate in the spend-a-thon involved in paying college athletes? Schools like Alabama, Florida and Notre Dame will survive but how about those that aren't guaranteed TV coverage every Saturday during football season? The NCAA is an association of college sports programs with student-athletes and was never meant to be a for-profit endeavor. The point is to stay in school and get an education which tends to be the guiding premise behind going to college.
I'm sorry but the games are tv generating millions of dollars, the coaches are making millions, the AD's coordinators are all making lots of money. You might not think it's supposed to be a for profit endevour but that's what it is, and it should be dealt with how it is not how you wish it would be.
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Old 03-11-2014, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Aurora, CO
6,624 posts, read 10,401,774 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild100s View Post
I see a lot of people who are on the side of not paying college athletes believe in fairy tales.

Go Google Walter Byers. Look up the the history of the athletic scholarship and why it was implemented. Research why the term student-athlete was created.
As I've said, if you wanna pay them then drop the scholarships and the lowered admissions standards for athletes. Gone will be the day when a 5-star QB who's dumb as a post gets a free ride through college and all the tutoring he needs at no expense.
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:12 AM
 
322 posts, read 448,729 times
Reputation: 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kranium View Post
They are paid. They have a college education handed to them on a silver platter. Many of the top tier athletes receive an education from some of the most prestigious schools in the country. The Average Joe has to pay thousands to get that same education. Just because it is not cash does not mean they are not being paid to play. Go to classes get your education, and once an all to short athletic career is over, try to claim that you were not paid when you still have that education.
First off let me say that I do not believe that college athletes should get paid for what they do. HOWEVER...anyone who thinks that college athletes are being handed an education from the prestigious schools that some of them attend is either fooling themselves or are not truly aware about how this system really works. For the athlete it is not as simple as go to class and get your education. Whether you choose to believe it or not it is far more complex than it appears on the surface.

As an example, during the "off-season" our football team's scheduled activities were such that we'd have to be in the gym for running at around 5AM. Then we'd get breakfast and be at study hall at 7AM. Classes start at 8AM. Our last class would have to be finished by 3PM in order for us to be back in the gym again for lifting. Then we'd go to film study with our position coaches or a study hall. After that we'd be at dinner at 6:30PM and more position meetings which would last until close to 10PM. Now I'm saying all of this to give a simple outline of what a day can look like in order to explain that athletes at major programs rarely have time to cash in on their free education. When I say cash in on their free education I'm mainly talking about athletes who want to get a degree in something other than phys. ed. or art history.

The idea of a true student/athlete went bye-bye a long time ago (eventhough the NCAA won't admit it). Most major college coaches will readily admit that an athlete in their program probably isn't going to be able to major in chemistry, molecular biology or any of the more intense college majors that are actually worth something. At some universities these types of majors can take students 4.5 to 5 yrs to complete even without the time constraints that athletes have to deal with. And I haven't even factored the "in-season" travel schedule to games along with the on field practice and conditioning that takes place. I guarantee you that if you took the Harvard's top ranked Finance or Law student and made him participate in all of the football team's activities his grades would be noticeably affected.

So my solution to this pay for play situation is simple. Any athlete receiving a full-ride scholarship should:

1. Have that scholarship be a full term scholarship rather than the 1-yr renewable set up that is currently in effect. You all do realize that scholarships are renewed annually and that a true 4-yr scholarship is a myth don't you? You also realize that when a new coach is brought in he has the right to void the scholarship of any athlete he does not want to keep...usually for the purpose of bringing in his own recruits for the program.

2. The athlete should have the opportunity to continue to earn his/her degree even if their athletic eligibility has expired. Meaning that if my 4 yrs of football eligibility is up but I haven't completed enough credits to earn my degree I'd still be granted room, board & tuition until I've been able to complete the degree as long as I'm able to maintain a good academic standing at that university.

These steps would ensure that the athletes are truly being granted that supposedly free education that everyone seems to think they are getting. Not just degrees in basket weaving or general studies but legit degrees that would actually get them hired in the real world. I already think that college athletics and the NCAA are shams. The athletes get used to make the universities tons of cash while the athletes are guaranteed nothing in return...not even a worthwhile education. If you don't believe that college athletics rake in the dough, just take a look at the highest paid state employee for every state. In the vast majority of states their highest paid employee is a coach or A.D. from a university. That explains everything I need to know about where the money is going.
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Old 03-11-2014, 03:19 PM
 
462 posts, read 337,617 times
Reputation: 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluescreen73 View Post
As I've said, if you wanna pay them then drop the scholarships and the lowered admissions standards for athletes. Gone will be the day when a 5-star QB who's dumb as a post gets a free ride through college and all the tutoring he needs at no expense.
The full athletic scholarship doesn't cover all expenses (mod cut)

Last edited by DOUBLE H; 03-11-2014 at 04:52 PM..
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Old 03-11-2014, 06:20 PM
 
28,905 posts, read 46,972,766 times
Reputation: 46105
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2008 View Post
If colleges cannot afford to pay players or have an aversion to it, then they can simply not pay them and give them the standard college scholarship. So if they want to be in the business than they can be in the business and if they don't than they don't have to be.
Colleges should be able to choose to spend money on a player just as they choose to spend to pay nick saban 5.5 million dollars. And I'm sorry you complaining that paying a college player 20-30k will bankrupt all these schools, while they pay their coach millions and their coordinators hundreds of thousands is kind of funny.
No, what's funny is how you can't do math. We're not talking about paying a college player 20-30K. We're talking about paying roughly 100 football players, 40 basketball players, soccer, baseball, softball, track, tennis, golf and any other sport you care to name in addition to the tuition they get. So we're talking roughly 400 athletes in a given university athletic department, which amounts to $8,000,000-$12,000,000 of extra expenses heaped on top, especially when you start to include workman's comp, social security matching contributions, and the rest. After all, once you start paying them, they are employees and will receive workplace employment protection. So call it an even $14,000,000. That puts a lot of college athletic programs out of business, given that all but 14 out of 228 college athletic programs couldn't generate enough in revenues to cover their expenses last year.

One doesn't have to have an MBA to see what's going to happen. I mean, hey, if you want to winnow the entirety of college athletics down to maybe 30 programs, go ahead. Because that's essentially where you're going to do. Unless your team is a perennial power in a top conference, hope you like Division II or III.

And lest you think that only the football and basketball teams are going to get compensation, you're smoking crack. Title IX has the force of law here. That means that the worst player on the girl's golf team is going to get paid just like the star quarterback on Saturday afternoons.

Last edited by cpg35223; 03-11-2014 at 06:34 PM..
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Old 03-11-2014, 06:23 PM
 
28,905 posts, read 46,972,766 times
Reputation: 46105
Quote:
Originally Posted by EHCT View Post
First off let me say that I do not believe that college athletes should get paid for what they do. HOWEVER...anyone who thinks that college athletes are being handed an education from the prestigious schools that some of them attend is either fooling themselves or are not truly aware about how this system really works. For the athlete it is not as simple as go to class and get your education. Whether you choose to believe it or not it is far more complex than it appears on the surface.

As an example, during the "off-season" our football team's scheduled activities were such that we'd have to be in the gym for running at around 5AM. Then we'd get breakfast and be at study hall at 7AM. Classes start at 8AM. Our last class would have to be finished by 3PM in order for us to be back in the gym again for lifting. Then we'd go to film study with our position coaches or a study hall. After that we'd be at dinner at 6:30PM and more position meetings which would last until close to 10PM. Now I'm saying all of this to give a simple outline of what a day can look like in order to explain that athletes at major programs rarely have time to cash in on their free education. When I say cash in on their free education I'm mainly talking about athletes who want to get a degree in something other than phys. ed. or art history.

The idea of a true student/athlete went bye-bye a long time ago (eventhough the NCAA won't admit it). Most major college coaches will readily admit that an athlete in their program probably isn't going to be able to major in chemistry, molecular biology or any of the more intense college majors that are actually worth something. At some universities these types of majors can take students 4.5 to 5 yrs to complete even without the time constraints that athletes have to deal with. And I haven't even factored the "in-season" travel schedule to games along with the on field practice and conditioning that takes place. I guarantee you that if you took the Harvard's top ranked Finance or Law student and made him participate in all of the football team's activities his grades would be noticeably affected.

So my solution to this pay for play situation is simple. Any athlete receiving a full-ride scholarship should:

1. Have that scholarship be a full term scholarship rather than the 1-yr renewable set up that is currently in effect. You all do realize that scholarships are renewed annually and that a true 4-yr scholarship is a myth don't you? You also realize that when a new coach is brought in he has the right to void the scholarship of any athlete he does not want to keep...usually for the purpose of bringing in his own recruits for the program.

2. The athlete should have the opportunity to continue to earn his/her degree even if their athletic eligibility has expired. Meaning that if my 4 yrs of football eligibility is up but I haven't completed enough credits to earn my degree I'd still be granted room, board & tuition until I've been able to complete the degree as long as I'm able to maintain a good academic standing at that university.

These steps would ensure that the athletes are truly being granted that supposedly free education that everyone seems to think they are getting. Not just degrees in basket weaving or general studies but legit degrees that would actually get them hired in the real world. I already think that college athletics and the NCAA are shams. The athletes get used to make the universities tons of cash while the athletes are guaranteed nothing in return...not even a worthwhile education. If you don't believe that college athletics rake in the dough, just take a look at the highest paid state employee for every state. In the vast majority of states their highest paid employee is a coach or A.D. from a university. That explains everything I need to know about where the money is going.
See, I think this is an intelligent and well-considered post on the subject.
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Old 03-12-2014, 10:00 AM
 
4,399 posts, read 9,121,464 times
Reputation: 2352
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
No, what's funny is how you can't do math. We're not talking about paying a college player 20-30K. We're talking about paying roughly 100 football players, 40 basketball players, soccer, baseball, softball, track, tennis, golf and any other sport you care to name in addition to the tuition they get. So we're talking roughly 400 athletes in a given university athletic department, which amounts to $8,000,000-$12,000,000 of extra expenses heaped on top, especially when you start to include workman's comp, social security matching contributions, and the rest. After all, once you start paying them, they are employees and will receive workplace employment protection. So call it an even $14,000,000. That puts a lot of college athletic programs out of business, given that all but 14 out of 228 college athletic programs couldn't generate enough in revenues to cover their expenses last year.

One doesn't have to have an MBA to see what's going to happen. I mean, hey, if you want to winnow the entirety of college athletics down to maybe 30 programs, go ahead. Because that's essentially where you're going to do. Unless your team is a perennial power in a top conference, hope you like Division II or III.

And lest you think that only the football and basketball teams are going to get compensation, you're smoking crack. Title IX has the force of law here. That means that the worst player on the girl's golf team is going to get paid just like the star quarterback on Saturday afternoons.
You should learn more about the subject at hand before you start hurling out the insults. You are mistaken that Title IX would make it mandatory to pay every athlete the same or pay every athlete if one gets paid.

The text of Title IX that would apply here says:
[n]o person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.
Nothing here prohibits paying some college athletes and not paying others. Also see Stanley v. University of Southern California, 13 F.3d 1313 (9th Cir. 1994). So you are wrong. I know you think you know everything but newsflash you don't.
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