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Old 01-09-2016, 04:38 PM
 
Location: The "Rock"
2,551 posts, read 2,415,482 times
Reputation: 1322

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJG View Post
Are you talking about a decade in the conference or just in general?

Because TCU has been a 10-win program consistently since '99... and JUST got into the conference and has been in playoff talks twice within the first 4 years of being a member...
See below...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008 View Post
Clearly he meant in the Big XII. You'd be wearin' some purple colored glasses if you said those first couple of years Texas Christian didn't experience some growing pains.

It should have been expected with better competition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008 View Post
To the first bold, so true. The upstarts have no idea how good they have it.

As for the second, most OU fans I know are ready to make the jump. I'm one of them. It would be incredibly fortuitous for OU and the SEC. The SEC would make its money and OU would be in the Biggest Big Dog League playing marquee matchups every Saturday. The SECWest would have to be restructured. It would probably look like this:

SECWest
A&M
Alabama
Arkansas
Louisiana St.
Oklahoma
Mississippi
Mississippi St.
Missouri

I don't know if the SECEast would agree to taking Bammer and it is geographically more west than Auburn so it's unfortunate for the rest of the SECWest that Bammer stays in the West.

The biggest hurdle to it happening is that OU's uppercrust has not shown it wants to leave Oklahoma State yet. Inability to leave Oklahoma State the first time was the only reason that OU didn't go with A&M a few years back.
Agreed... I think it makes the most sense the way you have it laid out. Auburn and Bama can continue to play but as cross-division rivals. The ONLY hiccup this may present is the Bama-Tenn rivalry (unless they go 9 Conf games). If the Conf would prefer to keep that then Mizzou would have to stay east and Auburn goes back west. But other than that call out Im with you...

I wonder how long the OK State dependency will last. Because whether it's SEC, PAC, or B1G that calls for OU... None are going to take the pokes. And the SEC is just the best option overall as far as culture between the rest of those conferences. [disclaimer: I still don't think Oklahoma fits the Deep South culture overall... But It's a better match than west coast or the Midwest culture.]
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Old 01-09-2016, 04:40 PM
 
Location: The "Rock"
2,551 posts, read 2,415,482 times
Reputation: 1322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008 View Post
I'm really diggin' the new Mr. GE! I'm guessin' bigger and better things for you in 2016!
Ha... It's a Leap Year... So things are just off!
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Old 01-09-2016, 05:27 PM
 
500 posts, read 382,714 times
Reputation: 770
No way that you could separate Alabama from the same division as auburn and Tennessee.
All hell would break loose. Not just with Tide fans, barners and vols would be raising all kinds of holy hell.
Takes away a HUGE rivalry that they all like, really get into and brings in a lot of money to all of the schools.

Don't see that happening.
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Old 01-09-2016, 05:31 PM
 
500 posts, read 382,714 times
Reputation: 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasTallest View Post
LOL.. what makes you think the Big 12 would want to add Houston or Memphis..? we appreciate the offer on the Aggies.. but you can keep them
Please, pretty please

It's almost a joke now with them in the SEC. Not having the UT/tamu Thanksgiving game has got to be hurting them.
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Old 01-09-2016, 06:01 PM
 
Location: The Bayou City
3,220 posts, read 3,739,833 times
Reputation: 1457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008 View Post
Sorry, I know the Aggies are hard to deal with, but they would have kept our conference afloat. As a smaller school with no guarantee of a Big Dog invite, you should've clamored (as OU did) for A&M to stay and keep this conference stable and respectable.

This OU fan would gladly take A&M and Nebraska back in a heartbeat. Heck, I'd be happy if we got Mizzou and Colorado back. At least they're state schools with large fanbases and a lot of money.
Uhh.. the Big 12 still is "afloat"..? And last I checked it was Baylor/Ken Starr(?) that kept the Big 12 from falling apart a few years ago... so tell me how we didn't clamor to keep the conference stable/respectable?
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Old 01-09-2016, 06:24 PM
 
Location: The Bayou City
3,220 posts, read 3,739,833 times
Reputation: 1457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008 View Post
So we're in agreement, Baylor's D (especially run defense) needs some work. It would have made the difference this year.

To the bold, you have no way of knowing that. Again, all teams suffer injuries at inopportune times. Remember when we lost Shep a few years ago to that targeting hit or last year when T-Knight was virtually paralyzed by Oakman? It happens. Baylor's inability was due to a lack of depth that night. There's tons of games all our teams "woulda, shoulda, coulda." I sure wish D-Murray wasn't hurt against Florida a few years ago...perhaps another Natty for OU. But we'll never know. Nothing is for certain even when you have all your players. It's sour grapes. Nothing more.

And the reason that OU got into the playoff is that we actually had a respectable non-conference schedule. We beat an SEC team at their place. A pretty big place....over a 100,000 fans. That's nothing to sneeze at and clearly the Committee rewarded OU.

So the formula Baylor needs to adopt is OU's. If you want to be a Big Dog you've got to schedule/play like a Big Dog. Get a better defense and quit playing Incarnate Word/Lamar for starters. You have no one to blame but your AD/Briles for this methodology. So far it hasn't worked. Get a better non-con.
Of course the Baylor defense needs some work.. unlike our offense, the defense is not number 1 in the country, so there is plenty of room for improvement. But im not sure how much of a difference it would of made given our major injuries occurred on the offensive side of the ball. Last i checked Shepard wasnt the QB/leader of the team, that the entire system is based around...? And I'm pretty sure Trevor Knight was mediocre at best. So I'm not sure how either of those "injuries" (how many games were they out?) compare to losing the star player for the entire 2nd half of the season to a broken neck. Ah well, I'm not trying to make excuses, was just pointing out a few glaring facts..
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Old 01-11-2016, 02:44 PM
 
Location: OKIE-Ville
5,414 posts, read 7,715,995 times
Reputation: 3064
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. GE View Post
See below...






Agreed... I think it makes the most sense the way you have it laid out. Auburn and Bama can continue to play but as cross-division rivals. The ONLY hiccup this may present is the Bama-Tenn rivalry (unless they go 9 Conf games). If the Conf would prefer to keep that then Mizzou would have to stay east and Auburn goes back west. But other than that call out Im with you...

I wonder how long the OK State dependency will last. Because whether it's SEC, PAC, or B1G that calls for OU... None are going to take the pokes. And the SEC is just the best option overall as far as culture between the rest of those conferences. [disclaimer: I still don't think Oklahoma fits the Deep South culture overall... But It's a better match than west coast or the Midwest culture.]
Absolutely. Oklahoma's fansbase fits nicely geographically and culturally with A&M and Arkansas, but would be an outlier in Mississippi and beyond. Either way, it's still a better fit than the B1G (Midwest) or the PAC (West).

Last edited by Bass&Catfish2008; 01-11-2016 at 02:55 PM..
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Old 01-11-2016, 02:48 PM
 
Location: OKIE-Ville
5,414 posts, read 7,715,995 times
Reputation: 3064
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaching View Post
No way that you could separate Alabama from the same division as auburn and Tennessee.
All hell would break loose. Not just with Tide fans, barners and vols would be raising all kinds of holy hell.
Takes away a HUGE rivalry that they all like, really get into and brings in a lot of money to all of the schools.

Don't see that happening.
Alabama is not in the same division. Bammer is in the SECWest and Tennessee is in the SECEast.

That was Mr. GE's point....if the divisions were restructured with an OU addition then there would have to be a way to keep Tennessee as a yearly cross-divisional rival for Bammer.

Last edited by Bass&Catfish2008; 01-11-2016 at 02:57 PM..
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Old 01-11-2016, 02:54 PM
 
Location: OKIE-Ville
5,414 posts, read 7,715,995 times
Reputation: 3064
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasTallest View Post
Uhh.. the Big 12 still is "afloat"..? And last I checked it was Baylor/Ken Starr(?) that kept the Big 12 from falling apart a few years ago... so tell me how we didn't clamor to keep the conference stable/respectable?
The Big XII is viewed as a disadvantaged conference. It is not stable/respectable no matter what Baylor does. It's up to OU and Tejas at the end of the day. It looks like Tejas is stalling on adding teams so as to simply ride its contract out with ESPN and make more money through the Big XII TV contract and then makes its way to the PAC. Great business plan, but horrible for the rest of the Big XII and its future.

As OU president D-Boren said last summer: the Big XII is "psychologically" disadvantaged. His point is that perception wins the day; and, the perception is not good since it lost four (4!) teams in the realignment game. And not only just four teams, but four major state universities with huge endowments and large fanbases. Baylor and Texas Christian, while good on the football field, don't help the perception at all in some of these other areas that are important to the regents/presidents of the universities in other conferences (and more importantly the TV networks setting the contracts).
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Old 03-18-2016, 09:16 AM
 
1,261 posts, read 1,771,940 times
Reputation: 371
Default My own thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJG View Post
Ok... I swear to you, this is the LAST one I update.

Just doesn't seem right to put UCF in a "major" conference over TCU and Baylor, who are aleady there...


B1G
- West // Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Kansas, Kansas St.
- East // Purdue, Indiana, Ohio St., Michigan, Michigan St., Penn St., Rutgers, Maryland

SEC
- West // Ole Miss, Miss. St., Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, TCU, Baylor, Mizzou
- East // Auburn, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, S. Carolina, Vanderbilt, Tennessee, Kentucky,

ACC
- Atlantic // Clemson, FSU., N.C. State, Louisville, Notre Dame, Syracuse, Wake Forest, WVU
- Coastal // B.C., V-Tech, Duke, UNC, Miami, Virginia, Georgia Tech, Pitt

PAC 16
- West // Cal, Stanford, Washington, Washington St., Oregon, Oregon St., USC, UCLA,
- East // Utah, Colorado, Arizona, ASU, Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Ok. St.

E.U.S.A.C
- Eastern // UConn, ECU, WKU, Navy, Ohio, USF, Army, UCF
- Central // Cincinnati, Rice, Houston, SMU, Tulane, LTU, Tulsa, Memphis

W.U.S.A.C.
- Mountain // Iowa St., UTEP, UTSA, Wyomming, Colorado St., Air Force, BYU, Utah St.
- Pacific // Boise St., Idaho, UNLV, Nevada, Fresno St, SDSU, Hawaii, SJSU

Sun Belt
- East // Charlotte, Mid Tenn St., FIU, FAU, Georgia St., Troy, USA, Southern Miss.
- West // New Mexico, Texas St., Louisiana, ULM, Arkansas St., N. Texas, NMSU, Sam Houston St.

Rust Belt
- East // ODU, UMass, Temple, Buffalo, Appalachian St., Marshal, Kent St., Akron
- West // NDSU, NIU, Ball St., EMU, CMU, WMU, Toledo, Bowling Green
Just the forum I needed, I was hankering for fantasy realignment masturbation.

(Naturally none of this happens any time soon if the Big 12 gets its act together and just grabs BYU and Cincy, details below).

JJG you seem very egalitarian in your appeal for a 16 team playoff. College Football is indeed probably the most elitist and gatekeeping of all major American sports. That being said, while overblown, I do think there is some merit to the argument of potentially the regular season being a tad diluted in a sense with such a large pool. Then again, I suppose you make up for it with the excitement of a playoff.

Realistically speaking, due to the strong gatekeeping culture of the sport, likely attention will be focused mainly on the 4 cream of the crop superconferences in the ACC, Big 10, SEC and Pac however many.

As a quick commentary though, I think the Irish are more likely to the Big Ten as there is more money to be made by leveraging both their massive fanbases in Chicago and NYC. Given that, the ACC would best pick up West Virginia, UConn, Cincy and Temple, yes Temple....which I will explain down below.

NOW ON TO MY THEORIES AND TWO CENTS. If any one has any answers or comments that do not devolve in to immature flame wars, feel free to contribute.

There are a lot of variables at play that would affect how the dominoes fall.

1. How relevant is potential cable revenue going forward in the next 20 years? The media landscape is evolving and cable companies and networks will be hard pressed to continue charging such high fees all around for a shrinking pool of consumers.

2. How relevant IS academics to all this? Nebraska not being a part of the AAU and still getting into the Big 10. Louisville NOT being an elite school and getting into the ACC, etc. I think that the arguments revolving around academic and cultural fits become even more irrelevant if this Pandora's box is opened.

3. Can strength in basketball help off set some weaker football prowess? Honestly in terms of marquee adds just based on football acumen and football audience there are very few options.


Really I think it all comes down to Texas, Oklahoma and Notre Dame and WHO GOES WHERE FIRST. Oklahoma is apparently tied at the hip to Okie State (not a sexy pick despite all the hard work they've done). Texas can write it's own ticket but apparently is too sophisticated for the SEC (along with the Sooners apparently). Therefore the Pac 12 makes sense.


After that there are only a few more really good football grabs, they are;


BYU - Honestly, I wonder if the logistics of no sunday sports would not be offset by the big cash infusion by joining a major conference. If the Big 12 does not take them. Then I advocate the Pac taking them. Yea yea culture, blah blah blah. The money to be made with the national Mormon market seems worthy of a look. Utah may or may not be very fond of the idea though, to say nothing of the more liberal college presidents in the rest of the Pac. But BYU, Texas, Oklahoma and some other random place and you will have owned realignment wars.

Notre Dame - So yea, Big 10. Why? Because besides obvious cultural and regional fit and huge brand name, the biggest college football team in New York City IS the Irish, as is cited here in the NY times. Rutgers AND the Irish? Fogget about it!

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/201...nt-chaos/?_r=0

From there, It's a stretch....

West Virginia - Both a solid pick up in football and basketball, decent enough brand name for those who remember not too long ago. Could move TV national ratings. Currently odd man out in the Big 12. However, sparsely populated home market hurts them in local revenue streams though. My dream as an ACC guy is that we snatch them up and start the Backyard Brawl up again with Pitt. If you look up TV ratings, that was always a good ranker in viewership.

UConn - Obvious basketball cred, but no real football cred. Despite the work done by Edsall, they still do not have strong recognition. You do get a well heeled fanbase and alumni base with reach into the New York market though. Admittedly, only makes sense for a few conferences. Big 12 or maybe ACC given certain circumstances.

Kansas - basically the same as UConn. I believe that if it gets into a strong conference, it could have potential but the only places that make sense logistically are the SEC and Big 10. Would either conference want the huge project that is Kansas football? I would just hate to see the basketball program out in the cold is all, I guess. Ironically, SEC would make the most sense for recruiting (Texas inroads, plus juice from Border War with Mizzou as added bonus) but the competition would be DIRE.

And finally all the other places are just "Well, they are the best we can do at this point" kinda places. Potential upsides but come with a lot of baggage.

Cincinatti - under rated football school frankly. Not a power of course but good mid major with probably a bit of room to grow. Decent fanbase, good school, making investments in program reportedly. From what I hear anecdotally, Cincy is like Memphis, Miami or Louisville where it is the main topic in the metro and not the big state school, which could bode well for ratings in a decently sized market in a good recruiting area.


Memphis - basically same as Cincy but with more skepticism on the football side. It is just so early in the post Fuente era that it is a real risk to take them on. Is it sustainable? Decent basketball cred though.


USF/UCF
- Basically potential Big 12 fodder. I bet dollars to donuts that the Big 3 Florida schools do NOT want to help their little brothers rise up and steal from their plates! Still access to big markets with room to grow.

Temple - This is a conditional mention. So yea. If 4 super conferences happen, then the ACC is in a pickle if they don't get Notre Dame. I don't see them merging with the Red River Rivals or Kansas. Temple is a risk but potential upside is real penetration in the Philly market. I have roots there so I can say that Philly is it's own universe vis a vis the state of Pennsylvania.
Penn State has a following but does not DOMINATE mind share. If a Philly team got into a major conference and competed for championships, you would have a large potential audience. Basically Boise State phenomenon with a Miami (FL) sized potential market. Would need to make major investments though which would be very controversial with current academic staff.
Still, If you add the two together and both continue to improve on the field you could carve a surprisingly strong niche in PA by grabbing two of the largest schools in the two largest metro areas. PSU maybe would still edge out in terms of total fan numbers but the Temple/Pitt combo would not be far behind at least as far as providing ACTUAL Pennsylvania eyeballs to the ACC.
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