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Old 04-05-2014, 03:50 PM
JJG JJG started this thread
 
Location: Fort Worth
13,247 posts, read 19,171,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sskink View Post
I would also suggest that in the OP's example, Memphis is a more viable candidate for the SEC than TCU. They've been to a BCS bowl recently, consistently have a competitive football team, have good athletic facilities, a natural rivalry with Tennessee and are also consistently good in hoops. From the AAC, after UConn, Memphis appears to me the most likely to "graduate" to a bigger league, even slightly ahead of Cincy.
... wha?

For one:



- You say that Memphis is consistently competitive in football and has been to a BCS bowl recently. Well, not only has TCU been to TWO BCS bowls (in fact, they were in BCS bowls long before they were even called that), but the Frogs also have National Titles.
- As far as facilities go, Memphis only beats TCU in basketball, but that's because they play in an NBA arena.
- TCU has been to more bowl games than Memphis
- TCU's football program isn't the most storied program in all of college football, but it's certainly more storied than Memphis (Heisman winner Davy O'Brien who also has the QB of the Year trophy named after him, 16 All-Americans, 17 Conference Titles in 5 different conferences, Randy White, LaDanian Tomlinson, Sammy Baugh, Larry Brown..)
- TCU has been in a major conference before for YEARS, and there's no way they're moving back down.
- And despite the down years TCU had from the 1970's-mid 90's, they STILL have a better overall winning percentage than Memphis (TCU: .565 / Memphis: .491)

I don't even think Memphis was an D-1A school until the around the mid 90's.

I'm not even gonna begin to compare markets...
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Old 04-05-2014, 07:19 PM
 
6,611 posts, read 6,922,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edsg25 View Post
If Notre Dame is forced to give up its true independent status and join a conference as a full and equal member ), it won't keep its affiliation with the ACC; it will instead join the Big Ten.

Is there really any other choice? ND hooked up with the ACC simply because it offered what it wanted; the same as the Big East before that. If the Big Ten were to have granted such partial membership, ND would have jumped to join.

Joining the Big Ten would be a no brainer. ND is in the heart of Big Ten country and has a relationship with the Big Ten for its entire history. Strong relationships with the likes of Michigan, MSU, Purdue, Northwestern, and Iowa.

ND cares about the East Coast; that's where the Big East and ACC connections come in. But today's Big Ten gives ND much more of the east coast coverage it craves:

Rutgers (NYC market)
Penn State (Philadelphia market)
UMd (Washington and Baltimore markets)

what does the ACC offer in competition:
BC (Boston market)……Pitt gives it nothing on the east coast and ND is not looking at the Pgh market

If Notre Dame is forced to join a conference with full status, the Big Ten is where it goes.

but heck, that would work with the neat grid you came up with. The Big Ten already got Marland from the ACC; it can just easily get ND from its partial ACC status.
If Notre Dame wanted to join the BIG it would have already, so your logic just flies out the window. I don't think ND has to worry about "markets". It's a national brand and is firmly entrenched in every large market.
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Old 04-05-2014, 07:23 PM
 
6,611 posts, read 6,922,270 times
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JJG, I would agree with your conferences except that the ACC is not interested in WVU. They applied for membership a couple of years ago and were turned away (due to academics) and ended up in the Big XII. I think UConn will eventually be invited to the ACC.
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Old 04-05-2014, 08:42 PM
JJG JJG started this thread
 
Location: Fort Worth
13,247 posts, read 19,171,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTarheel View Post
JJG, I would agree with your conferences except that the ACC is not interested in WVU. They applied for membership a couple of years ago and were turned away (due to academics) and ended up in the Big XII. I think UConn will eventually be invited to the ACC.
Eh... Maybe.

I just said West Virginia because there are several Big East schools there and since they're already in a major conference, it would be them over UCoon.

Bit I guess that's possible.
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,853 posts, read 6,524,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTarheel View Post
If Notre Dame wanted to join the BIG it would have already, so your logic just flies out the window. I don't think ND has to worry about "markets". It's a national brand and is firmly entrenched in every large market.
boy, Joe, have you missed my point. Did you even read what I said? Do you realize that the only conference that ND ever had serious negations with for full membership (as late as the late 1990s) was the Big Ten. Do you realize how close the university came to making the deal, salivating over CIC academic membership? ND would have jumped at joining the Big Ten on the basis of partial membership, the thing that was offered by both the Big East and the ACC. Joe, try to understand this: Notre Dame didn't really ever join either the Big East nor the ACC: it merely made an accommodation with it (accommodations being something the Big Ten would never offer, viewing its members as equals, never to belittle itself with accommodations. then again, neither would the SEC or the Pac 12. Do you get it, Joe: Notre Dame would have joined Our Lady of the Devil if it meant keeping its vaunted independent status. The ACC is all about that for ND: continued independence….of USC and Stanford and Navy and Purdue and MSU and Michigan and a whole bunch of others its likes flowing in and out of its schedules.

Notre Dame has to worry about its "markets" because Texas has to worry about its and Alabama and Oklahoma or mighty USC (which currently fades out to UCLA within its own city limits) and any other university or institution that realizes that change is constant and nothing stays the same. So the same would have been true of ancient Rome. Or the United States.

and, yes, ND very much has to think about a lot of things out of its control. Like joining a conference as a full member, giving up its independence since there very well may be no place for an independent in the new, evolving world of big time college athletics. Put together 4 super conferences, eliminate Notre Dame because it won't join a conference on a full member basis, pit those 4 conferences' champions in a 4 team playoff and what do you get: total Notre Dame irrelevancy. For comparison purposes: think Slipery Rock.

and that ND brand you so cherish is a tainted brand. It hasn't been big on the national scene in years, save for 2012 when Alabama proved how little ND has risen after destroying the little sisters of the poor in the national championship.

So you'd have to explain to me: exactly why would Notre Dame, if forced to pick a conference in which it was a full and equal partner would choose the ACC (a largely southeastern based conference with minimal penetration into the northeast, a region ND very much relates to) compared to the Big Ten (a region in which Notre Dame has always been in the center, related to big time throughout its history, that also gives it the northeast with the NYC, Philly, Balt, DC markets, while the ACC offers only Boston).

and if you really think that the Big Ten would not be attractive to the Big Ten (in which case, i may offer to sell you something in that previously mentioned NYC market: the Brooklyn Bridge), what exactly would make the ACC more attractive than, say, the Pac 12.

Now, Joe, I don't think I have all the answers and that I get everything right I don't; i can screw up big time and do. So I would be interested in seeing how you counter each of the points I have offered above. Just like I will feel comfortable countering your arguments.

Last edited by edsg25; 04-06-2014 at 06:58 AM..
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Old 04-06-2014, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Currently living in Reddit
5,655 posts, read 5,698,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTarheel View Post
JJG, I would agree with your conferences except that the ACC is not interested in WVU. They applied for membership a couple of years ago and were turned away (due to academics) and ended up in the Big XII. I think UConn will eventually be invited to the ACC.
If academics really mattered, UConn would already be in. By taking Louisville, the ACC essentially said academics are taking a back seat, now and in the future.
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Old 04-12-2014, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Columbus, OH
3,039 posts, read 2,166,548 times
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There is no chance in hell that the Big Ten would ever invite Kansas or Kansas State. That will never happen. Unless the Big Ten decides to kick out Michigan and Wisconsin first. Aint gonna happen.

And there is no chance in hell that Notre Dame will join a conference in football and they will not be excluded from anything because of independence. Why do people think this is some kind of possibility?

Also, no way UCONN gets in a major conference. They have nothing of value to offer. The ACC and B1G are not interested in "project" schools.

If the Big 12 folds the only school worth a damn to a major conference is Texas. If Texas wants to bring along Oklahoma then that would happen. No one besides Texas could get in on their own. Iowa State, Okie State, Kansas, etc.. will be joining the MAC if the Big 12 falls apart.
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Old 04-12-2014, 11:14 PM
 
Location: OKIE-Ville
5,412 posts, read 7,704,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioRules View Post
There is no chance in hell that the Big Ten would ever invite Kansas or Kansas State. That will never happen. Unless the Big Ten decides to kick out Michigan and Wisconsin first. Aint gonna happen.

And there is no chance in hell that Notre Dame will join a conference in football and they will not be excluded from anything because of independence. Why do people think this is some kind of possibility?

Also, no way UCONN gets in a major conference. They have nothing of value to offer. The ACC and B1G are not interested in "project" schools.

If the Big 12 folds the only school worth a damn to a major conference is Texas. If Texas wants to bring along Oklahoma then that would happen. No one besides Texas could get in on their own. Iowa State, Okie State, Kansas, etc.. will be joining the MAC if the Big 12 falls apart.
We Okies want nothing to do with the Mighty Midwest Conference. I'm sure you love it, great. We could care less. If Texas is stupid enough to go up that way then so be it. (And I wouldn't be surprised.) And, we would get even more of Texas' blue-chippers if they went to play against the likes of Michigan, Iowa, Indiana, Ohio St., Illinois, etc. Do you really think Tejas wants to lose more recruiting ground in its own state to the Sooners and A&M?

As for Oklahoma, the SEC West or the PAC South would jump at the chance to have the Sooners in the fold. Slive already struck out on the Sooners coming with the Aggies and took Mizzwho as a consolation prize. I'm sure he'd love to renew that conversation and finish off the western boundary with either Oklahoma/Oklahoma State or some combination of Oklahoma/Texas Tech or TCU or Baylor.

I hate to burst your bubble but the Sooners bow down to no one when it comes to tradition and branding. Get a grip, Yankee.
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Old 04-12-2014, 11:29 PM
 
Location: Columbus, OH
3,039 posts, read 2,166,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008 View Post
We Okies want nothing to do with the Mighty Midwest Conference. I'm sure you love it, great. We could care less. If Texas is stupid enough to go up that way then so be it. (And I wouldn't be surprised.) And, we would get even more of Texas' blue-chippers if they went to play against the likes of Michigan, Iowa, Indiana, Ohio St., Illinois, etc. Do you really think Tejas wants to lose more recruiting ground in its own state to the Sooners and A&M?

As for Oklahoma, the SEC West or the PAC South would jump at the chance to have the Sooners in the fold. Slive already struck out on the Sooners coming with the Aggies and took Mizzwho as a consolation prize. I'm sure he'd love to renew that conversation and finish off the western boundary with either Oklahoma/Oklahoma State or some combination of Oklahoma/Texas Tech or TCU or Baylor.

I hate to burst your bubble but the Sooners bow down to no one when it comes to tradition and branding. Get a grip, Yankee.
The problem with taking Oklahoma alone is OU doesn't have the TV ratings. And I don't care what Slive wanted/said. It aint his call. The University Presidents make all decisions on conference expansions. Slive works for them. The SEC wouldn't ant Oklahoma by themselves because OU doesn't make enough money for the SEC schools and they don't need another football power. They took A&M to get games on Texas TV. They took Missouri to round out the numbers. plus, the SEC wanted some decent academic schools to improve their image. Oklahoma doesn't help SEC academics.

You notice the SEC, PAC, ACC and B1G all expanded recently. No one invited Oklahoma. They did invite Nebraska however. And Colorado, Utah, Missouri. That should tell you something. lol.

I hate to burst your bubble but the Sooners will not go to another conference unless the Texas Longhorns tell them to.

And when did I say the big ten wanted texas/Oklahoma. All I said was Texas was the only Big12 team left worth considering. That's for any major conference, not just the Big Ten.
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Old 04-12-2014, 11:39 PM
 
Location: OKIE-Ville
5,412 posts, read 7,704,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioRules View Post
The problem with taking Oklahoma alone is OU doesn't have the TV ratings. And I don't care what Slive wanted/said. It aint his call. The University Presidents make all decisions on conference expansions. Slive works for them. The SEC wouldn't ant Oklahoma by themselves because OU doesn't make enough money for the SEC schools and they don't need another football power. They took A&M to get games on Texas TV. They took Missouri to round out the numbers. plus, the SEC wanted some decent academic schools to improve their image. Oklahoma doesn't help SEC academics.

You notice the SEC, PAC, ACC and B1G all expanded recently. No one invited Oklahoma. They did invite Nebraska however. And Colorado, Utah, Missouri. That should tell you something. lol.

I hate to burst your bubble but the Sooners will not go to another conference unless the Texas Longhorns tell them to.

And when did I say the big ten wanted texas/Oklahoma. All I said was Texas was the only Big12 team left worth considering. That's for any major conference, not just the Big Ten.
Boren told Slive "no."

If you think Misery brings in higher ratings than the Sooners then I'm guessing you need to go and get off Momma and Daddy's computer. Better luck next time, youngster.

Cheers.
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