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Old 11-18-2014, 07:53 AM
 
Location: OKIE-Ville
5,413 posts, read 7,711,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoPro View Post
Oh yes, UT went on probation 3 different times over the decades - the worst one cost 5 schollies for one recruiting season - that was for the pair of cowboy boots Dupree had a UT assistant pay for, and lunch money handed out, plus McWilliams loaning his car to a player to drive a friend to class. Not as good a deal as the new double wide Dupree's mom got after he went to OU. He denies that, of course.

UT has never been anywhere near the level of OU - just Google up "most unethical college football programs" or cheating in "college football".

Here is the list of years each school was sanctioned. I don't notice any bowl bans for Texas, but check out the Sooner's dismal record - that should tell you something about the seriousness of team/coaching/booster infractions:

College Football (FBS) and NCAA Probation FootballGeography.com

Big Red Kia? There were quite a few more than 2 players on their payroll. Not even mentioning AD Peterson getting to "test drive" new luxury cars for months at a time - free of charge.

Ramonce Taylor was a drug dealer. No one from the Texas Athletic Department "had" someone paying off his SUV.

Mack Brown caused all Switzer's NCAA woes in the one season he was there? Did Switzer bang his wife too?

If you want to get into $100 handshakes/rogue boosters & free meals being common everywhere, then I'll agree with you.

Royal ran a clean program - when he was UT's AD he heard that some members of the basketball boosters club were contemplating buying a used car for a near destitute player. Royal called the whole booster board into his office and threatened to disband their club and permanently ban every one of them from all UT athletic events. (my brother was on the board, but was not among the guilty miscreants).
I think Stoops has run a clean program, fwiw.

I've read plenty of smack on Sooner boards and heard it first hand at the RRS, so trash talk goes both ways and has since I started going to that game 52 years ago.

BTW - my local OU fan friend with whom I've had a running bet on the Texas/OU game for the last 10 years said he would refuse my cash on principal after this last game - so instead I gave him this:
Yeh, it's no coincidence he's an Okie.

Eh, ScoPro?
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Old 11-18-2014, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
8,385 posts, read 8,379,009 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008 View Post
Yeh, it's no coincidence he's an Okie.

Eh, ScoPro?
Born on soil that was formerly a part of Texas before it was stolen by Oklahoma through courtroom political shenanigans. It's hard to imagine any other state's crooked politicians besting our Lone Star elected criminals, but they did.

However, I notice St. Darrell had the good sense to stay in Texas once he got here. Great man, he was. RIP

BUT, also take note that Stoops & all the winningest OU coaches were from out of state.

I shall propose to my state legislator that he should introduce a bill in the upcoming legislative session to would put a hefty export tax on all Texas high school players who go over to the dark side of The Red. Have a progressive scale based on their recruitin' rankings (# of stars).

Given the nature of the clowns we recently elected to the state clown bus, that idea might gain some traction.
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Old 11-18-2014, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
6,867 posts, read 6,197,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoPro View Post
Oh yes, UT went on probation 3 different times over the decades - the worst one cost 5 schollies for one recruiting season - that was for the pair of cowboy boots Dupree had a UT assistant pay for, and lunch money handed out, plus McWilliams loaning his car to a player to drive a friend to class. Not as good a deal as the new double wide Dupree's mom got after he went to OU. He denies that, of course.

UT has never been anywhere near the level of OU - just Google up "most unethical college football programs" or cheating in "college football".

Here is the list of years each school was sanctioned. I don't notice any bowl bans for Texas, but check out the Sooner's dismal record - that should tell you something about the seriousness of team/coaching/booster infractions:

College Football (FBS) and NCAA Probation FootballGeography.com

Big Red Kia? There were quite a few more than 2 players on their payroll. Not even mentioning AD Peterson getting to "test drive" new luxury cars for months at a time - free of charge.

Again, typical Longhorn misinformation. Yes, there were more than 2 players on the payroll at Big Red in the SUMMER of 2005. The two players were clocking in and out at Big Red in the FALL of 2005 without working. It is illegal by NCAA rules to work during school year. Nobody was doing doing it but those two.

As far as Peterson driving the cars on a "test drive"? No, his mother and step father bought the car. They got cold feet and asked to be released of the agreement. How do I know this. My cousin in law had arranged the financing. He had the car for about 2 and a half weeks between Thanksgiving and Christmas. I had actually advised them not to keep the car because I knew you Texans would misrepresent the facts if he did. NCAA found no wrongdoing in the transaction.

Ramonce Taylor was a drug dealer. No one from the Texas Athletic Department "had" someone paying off his SUV.

I never said the University of Texas had someone paying off his SUV. I SAID a father of his friend had co signed the note. Technically legal if their was a pre existing relationship but skirting the rules. You don't think other Texas players suddenly have "preexisting relationships" with boosters once they sign with UT?

Mack Brown caused all Switzer's NCAA woes in the one season he was there? Did Switzer bang his wife too?

A couple of things. Mack Brown took money as a coach on the side that was illegal per NCAA rules. Yet Texas still hired him anyway. Secondly, most OU's violations were mostly related to summer employment and Hart Lee Dykes b.s.. But the big reason they got hammered is because of the lawsuit that they and Georgia put on the NCAA. OU and Georgia stuck won in court. Both paid with probation. Look it up on your list you provided.

If you want to get into $100 handshakes/rogue boosters & free meals being common everywhere, then I'll agree with you.

True. And I don't think the University of Texas cheats (although still no explanation for Dupree's boots.)

Royal ran a clean program - when he was UT's AD he heard that some members of the basketball boosters club were contemplating buying a used car for a near destitute player. Royal called the whole booster board into his office and threatened to disband their club and permanently ban every one of them from all UT athletic events. (my brother was on the board, but was not among the guilty miscreants).
I think Stoops has run a clean program, fwiw.

And this is what irks me. Darrell Royal was a genuine dirt poor dust bowl Okie. Heck he even went to California for a while. He indicated that it hurt him when he was insulted out there by the Okie slurs. He ends up coming back to Oklahoma and ends up being an All American for Bud Wilkinson. Another guy Texans think was a devious horrible cheater. Royal thought enough of Bud that he gave a eulogy at his funeral and always called him Mr. Wilkinson. Somehow though Royal ends up being this big hero in Texas even though, according to Texans by definition, he is a scumbag Okie, and was mentored by a scumbag coach. Royal is/was as pure as the driven snow all of the sudden. It's funny though, DKR was a sort of double agent. Down there he was "dipped and vaccinated". Up here he was an Okie. At his induction into the Oklahoma hall of fame Royal said "I'm proud to be an Okie. Always have been, always will be." Bet he never said that in Texas.


I've read plenty of smack on Sooner boards and heard it first hand at the RRS, so trash talk goes both ways and has since I started going to that game 52 years ago.

Again, the tenor of the smack is different. Nobody in Oklahoma calls you guys inbred toothless trailer trash on a constant basis. Nobody really attacks the state of Texas much. Nobody attacks the University of Texas as an institution. I'll make a deal with you. DM me if you see any Sooner board stuff that is insulting to Texas or Texans(aside from the typical "Texas sucks" stuff) as you peruse the OU boards.

Texas sucks is off the table since you guys have incorporated "OU sucks" into your fight song.



BTW - my local OU fan friend with whom I've had a running bet on the Texas/OU game for the last 10 years said he would refuse my cash on principal after this last game - so instead I gave him this:
Pretty cute,
Sounds like your friend is a good natured fellow and you are an ornery one.

BTW, nice victory over OSU. Ya'll may just get to those 8 wins I said the team was capable of achieving a few weeks ago.

The Frogs are good, but I'm not sold on them as a road team. If the Horns get off to a good start they could get it done and Charlie will have a chance to have a decent season.
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Old 11-18-2014, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
8,385 posts, read 8,379,009 times
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The multiple bowl bans speak for themselves as does OU's presence in numerous "Top Ten Cheating, Unethical" etc lists everywhere., so we can just leave it at that.

Brown took "illegal" money on the side? What does that mean, he was running a book? Maybe y'all should've paid him more?

How do we know who was clocking in & out of Big Red Kia (Kia? For gawd's sake, one would think Ford or GMC would be more apropos. Kia? Really?), didn't their records disappear?

Trash talk - that's a he said/she said argument that goes both ways, so we all have to deal with it. Feel lucky y'all don't get half the invective that is directed at Texas A&M.
Some of the root cause from Texas' trashtalk viewpoint has to do with OU's long record of problems with the NCAA and Barry Switzer's regime. Lots of bad blood between him & Royal, and for good reason. Not to mention the 2008 Big 12 tie breaker fiasco that sent the Sooners to the title game instead of Texas.

OSU has bigger problems than getting whipped by a subpar (but developing) Texas team. As I posted in the Frog thread, it should be a close one with TCU by a TD. Some oldtimers like me would like to see some vengeance for the 1961 game, and this one could set that up.

Last edited by ScoPro; 11-18-2014 at 06:30 PM..
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Old 12-02-2014, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
6,867 posts, read 6,197,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoPro View Post
The multiple bowl bans speak for themselves as does OU's presence in numerous "Top Ten Cheating, Unethical" etc lists everywhere., so we can just leave it at that.

Brown took "illegal" money on the side? What does that mean, he was running a book? Maybe y'all should've paid him more?

Brown took money on the side from Switzer to enhance his salary. Clear NCAA violation. Should not have been on the list for a "pure as the driven snow" Texas program.

How do we know who was clocking in & out of Big Red Kia (Kia? For gawd's sake, one would think Ford or GMC would be more apropos. Kia? Really?), didn't their records disappear?

Once again, we know because the NCAA looked at this and saw what happened. I know because I was pretty damned close to the situation. Bomar and Quinn were the ONLY players that were clocking in and out in the fall of 2005. A lot of the players worked there in the summer of 2005 which is legitimate by NCAA rules. Are you saying that they destroyed the records for everybody but the starting QB and his best buddy.

Trash talk - that's a he said/she said argument that goes both ways, so we all have to deal with it. Feel lucky y'all don't get half the invective that is directed at Texas A&M.

Let me know the next time that an OU fan calls you "inbred" or "trailer trash" or "methhead" or "toothless" to your face.

Some of the root cause from Texas' trashtalk viewpoint has to do with OU's long record of problems with the NCAA and Barry Switzer's regime. Lots of bad blood between him & Royal, and for good reason.

True, but Texans whined about Wilkinson before Switzer. And with Switzer, Royal had an image problem with blacks. Switzer took advantage of that and the fact that 'Meat on the Hoof' hurt him during that period. I know for a fact that Royal was hesitant to recruit the inner city. He actually told his old OU buddies after the 1970 game that 'If OU kept coming down and getting those blacks out of Houston they would keep getting their ass beat." The fact of the matter is that the Switzer teams that beat Royal were comprised of mostly all Oklahoma kids. There were only a handful of Texas kids the contributed. Most notable was Joe Washington. Kid grew up a Texas fan. Dad was a high school coach who commented that he had been coaching for 20 years in the golden triangle and Little Joe was the player he coached who Royal gave the time of day.


Not to mention the 2008 Big 12 tie breaker fiasco that sent the Sooners to the title game instead of Texas.

Obviously not OU's fault. Just a case of "who lost last" trumping "head to head". We are seeing the exact same thing playing out with TCU and Baylor this year.


OSU has bigger problems than getting whipped by a subpar (but developing) Texas team. As I posted in the Frog thread, it should be a close one with TCU by a TD. Some oldtimers like me would like to see some vengeance for the 1961 game, and this one could set that up.
As it turns out, TCU is really good, and things snowballed on Texas. Really about a 10 point difference between the teams if Swoopes plays to his capabilities.
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Old 12-03-2014, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
8,385 posts, read 8,379,009 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
As it turns out, TCU is really good, and things snowballed on Texas. Really about a 10 point difference between the teams if Swoopes plays to his capabilities.
Pretty good attempt at whitewashing OU malfeasance in the quote, but the NCAA sanctions & multiple bowl bans speak for themselves.

Your assessment of the TCU game is pretty accurate, but Swoopes didn't, and it would take a near miracle for him to start against Notre Dame in the opener next season. At least Heard will have had a lot more time to develop, so we are glad Strong didn't panic & burn his shirt.
Quote:


Let me know the next time that an OU fan calls you "inbred" or "trailer trash" or "methhead" or "toothless" to your face.

They don't, because we aren't.

Royal was no bigot - He coached black players before arriving at Texas.
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Old 12-04-2014, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Austin, Texas
3,093 posts, read 4,137,446 times
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1. I never hear Texas fans talk about Wilkinson much at all. All the hate is for Switzer.

2. Royal coached black players in Washington before coming here. While I don't believe Royal was a racist man at his core, I do think that he caved quite a bit to the "peer pressure" when he got back down here and his actions showed it. For a long time he made all kinds of excuses for not recruiting black players. He wasn't the guy doing the damage, but he was the guy who just sort of ignored it to avoid complicating things. Don't quote me on this, but I think I remember reading somewhere that he regretted not doing more in his later years.

3. The trailer trash thing is just good natured ribbing.
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Old 12-04-2014, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
6,867 posts, read 6,197,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UTHORNS96 View Post
1. I never hear Texas fans talk about Wilkinson much at all. All the hate is for Switzer.

2. Royal coached black players in Washington before coming here. While I don't believe Royal was a racist man at his core, I do think that he caved quite a bit to the "peer pressure" when he got back down here and his actions showed it. For a long time he made all kinds of excuses for not recruiting black players. He wasn't the guy doing the damage, but he was the guy who just sort of ignored it to avoid complicating things. Don't quote me on this, but I think I remember reading somewhere that he regretted not doing more in his later years.

3. The trailer trash thing is just good natured ribbing.
I think you are spot on about Royal, however, as I mentioned, according to the OU guys who were in his friends he felt that the inner city blacks had been radicalized by the movement, Viet Nam war, etc. and felt that that combined with the fact that they came from rough backgrounds and poor schools made for bad strategy relative to team chemistry. At least that is what he expressed to them. OU had Chuck Fairbanks, who had come from Bill Yoeman's staff in Houston so with a handful of exceptions, black players from Texas came from BC Elmore and Galveston through coaches that they knew at Houston.

Royal, when he did integrate (other than J Whittier who was from San Antonio but came from a solid family) tended to go with the smaller town kids. I'm thinking Ivy Suber might have been the typical inner city kid that Royal went after.

So I don't think Royal was as much a racist is that he was leary of players he felt might not buy into his program or felt like might not be college material as students. Again, this comes from his OU friends, many of whom were critical of Switzer.

However, there is always a certain irony that one of Royal's best friends was the athletic director at OU during the Switzer years (Wade Walker). Walker was his teammate and classmate from 1950. They both had places in Palm Springs along with a bunch of other old coaches from that era, including Fairbanks. That is how weird Royal's personal connections were during his time at Texas. He despised Switzer, but was a good buddy with Switzer's boss.

Some of the old OU guys from that period used to joke that the only stranger bedfellows than politics might make could be found at a golf course outing in Palm Springs.

Last edited by eddie gein; 12-04-2014 at 04:06 PM..
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Old 12-10-2014, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Whereever we have our RV parked
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OU should stay in the Big 12. Its all their traditional opponents. I don't really care about national champion stuff.

AS far as Kingsbury goes, well, he's a young man who is in over his head. He should have never been hired for a head coaching job. Just too young and inexperienced. He'll learn, but he's going to make a lot of mistakes along the way.
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Old 12-11-2014, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
8,385 posts, read 8,379,009 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
I think you are spot on about Royal, however, as I mentioned, according to the OU guys who were in his friends he felt that the inner city blacks had been radicalized by the movement, Viet Nam war, etc. and felt that that combined with the fact that they came from rough backgrounds and poor schools made for bad strategy relative to team chemistry. At least that is what he expressed to them. OU had Chuck Fairbanks, who had come from Bill Yoeman's staff in Houston so with a handful of exceptions, black players from Texas came from BC Elmore and Galveston through coaches that they knew at Houston.

Royal, when he did integrate (other than J Whittier who was from San Antonio but came from a solid family) tended to go with the smaller town kids. I'm thinking Ivy Suber might have been the typical inner city kid that Royal went after.

So I don't think Royal was as much a racist is that he was leary of players he felt might not buy into his program or felt like might not be college material as students. Again, this comes from his OU friends, many of whom were critical of Switzer.

However, there is always a certain irony that one of Royal's best friends was the athletic director at OU during the Switzer years (Wade Walker). Walker was his teammate and classmate from 1950. They both had places in Palm Springs along with a bunch of other old coaches from that era, including Fairbanks. That is how weird Royal's personal connections were during his time at Texas. He despised Switzer, but was a good buddy with Switzer's boss.

Some of the old OU guys from that period used to joke that the only stranger bedfellows than politics might make could be found at a golf course outing in Palm Springs.
That's a pretty fair assessment. We don't know if Royal was a racist at heart, but he was no bigot.

There were still a number of influential "big cigars" behind the Texas program that resisted social change in the '60s, and unfortunately they discouraged integration in the athletic sports at UT for too long. We even saw some remnants of that earlier this year from a "dinosaur" billionaire booster's comments when Charlie Strong was hired.
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